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Old 01-22-2014, 04:50 PM   #118 (permalink)
thetheham
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
This is what the op's entire sermon is based upon.
Come on now. I don’t “hate” Sid and think he is a fantastic player. I have stated countless times that I value winning over statistics every day. It was mentioned that Rob Scuderi, from my opinion, is a better player than Sid. Well, Scuderi wasn’t chosen to be the franchise player for his team, Toews and Sid were. As hard as this concept is to grasp,. That I place a premium on winning, the proof of my opinion is in the pudding. Toews has won at every level of competition that he has played at. More so then any other player playing today, including Sid. Its not rocket science, nor should it be. But face facts, isn’t it ironic that whatever team Toews plays upon, they seem to magically win? Whom, in this day and age has a better resume then Toews at doing the one thing teams go out on the ice to do? From the WJC to the Cup finals to the Olympics, Toews has set the standard.
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
You could drag this thread out for another 10 pages if you so choose, throw in "2 Cups", "best Olympic forward", "leader", or whatever adjective you like but the biggest (and most damning) counterpoint to anything you've had to say here is what Kane said.
That Sid is a better player? Its good that he says such things. Acting like such blather isn’t productive to the Hawks as a whole is foolish. Why bring the vultureish Canadian media into the fray with a comment taking away from their poster child and bringing such unneeded folly into the Hawks dressing room where things are workman like on account of Toews leadership? Hopefully come contract time these same words, and the words Toews said saying Sid was a better player than Kane, btw, work their way into negotiations and both sign for a sum lower per year then Sid that keeps the Hawks core intact for years to come. Its not a bad thing and never will be. I have stated countless time Sid can win every award until the end of time and be the flagship player for the NHL so long as the Hawks are the flagship franchise.
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
Kane has the same 2 Cups that Toews has. He has the same Conn Smythe trophy Toews has.....and he still thinks Crosby is the best player in the league. He's not some schlep 4th liner enjoying the view in between his 5 shifts per game.
He is also, if you read the story, talking about Sid’s offensive talents. Toews plays a much more complete game. Sid and Kane are the same type of player, both offensively gifted and defensively challenged. There isn’t a single one way player, and that includes Kane, who would say they are a better offensive player then Sid with the exceptions of Tavares who just might be on the same level as Sid now, and OV, who produces more goals. Kane was also asked, in the video interview, which is on the Hawks website, why he suddenly couldn’t keep up in the scoring race with Sid, which is fashionable omitted from the print article, and gave an honest answer- Sid is a better offensive talent. Nothing wrong with that and how this pertains to Toews, who is a different kind of player, is head scratch inducing.
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
Again...opinion....except the guy who voiced it is a teammate of Toews and every bit as talented as the guy you feel is better than Crosby. It's also more meaningful coming from a guy who actually plays in the NHL and has faced Crosby on the ice and watched Toews up close every day.
Wait. When did Kane become defensively aware? When has he killed a penalty or taken a regular shift on the PK? When has he cracked the top line this year on a regular basis outside of the first three games of the season? And better yet, when has Kane scored a goal in regulation in 2014? There is a huge gap in talent between Toews and Kane which is similar to the gap between Toews and Sid. One is well rounded while the other leans more offensively at the sake of defensive responsibilities. Kane doesn’t win faceoffs, he isn’t out on the ice with the lead and the game on the line, nor is he even a first line forward this year. With the exception of a pre-season game where Kane didn’t even dress if memory serves me, Sid hasn’t played against the Hawks in years.So how Kane can gauge Sid’s skill while on the ice against him when he hasn’t played against him in years makes something seem a bit off.
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
Unless I missed it somewhere I don't think anyone here has said they dislike Toews yet everyone who thinks Crosby is the better player, according to you, is a "fanboi". That's not objective thinking on your part. It's petty jealousy and dislike for Sid.
Fanboi’s take it personally when somebody questions the impact of their idol. Not once have I said Sid wasn’t a great player. He is. In my opinion, I favor Toews and what he has accomplished moreso then the scoring titles Sid has emassed in his career. Not once have I made an excuse or pointed to injuries to back my rock solid claim.Nor have I stooped to name calling or making disgusting jokes to further elevate my opinion. Making fun of cancer and the war on terror? Come on now. It wasn’t you but these things have popped up and in some cases quickly edited away out of shame. I get it. There are a lot of Sid fans here who have probably spent a lot of hard earned money on product and the thought of somebody going against the grain with, get this, their opinion makes them uncomfortable. I don’t really care who has deemed Sid the best player, its just opinion and everybody is entitled to their own. What I care about is fact. Toews and Sid are both in the same boat. Both are the flagships players on their teams. Toews, being the flagship player for the Hawks has won more then Sid. Until Sid can guide his team to another Cup win, which is questionable at best, in my opinion, again, he is looking up at Toews. This isn’t a hard concept to grasp…well, it certainly is to some, but its still a factual concept none the less. If the Pens can somehow win the Cup, it will be Sid leading the way. But when the Hawks win the Cup, it’s a team game. I understand this, but the fact remains both teams tanked, both teams bult their teams around their star players, and one team has won more Cups then the other and that team doesn’t boast the questionable two best players in the NHL. Why is that? Does a player who has done nothing but win in his entire hockey career have less value then whom the pundits deem the best players in the NHL? Pundits were telling everybody how the Pens were the best team in the NHL last year after the trade deadline, and this is with a Hawks team that just didn’t lose too many games. How did that work out, again? Toews had nothing to do with this even when the GM’s of the West deemed him the MVP of the West? The Hawks have lost a total of 15 games from the beginning of last year up onto this point in this years season during the regular season. And Toews, the first line center and catalyst of the team, doesn’t get any type of credit for it? Really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 223 View Post
You like Toews. We get it. You're argument has reached the point to where you're now declaring Toews more of a winner than Lemieux. That's absurd. Lemieux is among the best to EVER play the game. He's top 3-4 all time depending on where you put Gretzky, Orr, and Howe on your list.
How, just using basic math, would two be greater than three? This is if/when Toews wins the Cup again this year. Three Cups by the age of 25? Come on. How is that not a more impressive feat? I never said Toews was a better player then Lemiuex, I said the next Cup makes him a better winnerin the NHL. It cannot be refuted.
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
Toews isn't even in the top 3-4 players playing today. That's not a dig at you, it's not rattling your cage, it's simply looking at the whole picture. Toews plays on a stacked team. His success is his team's success as much as it is for Kane, Hossa, or any other 2 Cup winner on that team.
But it’s a team sport. Tell me how the Hawks are more stacked then the Pens? The Pens supposedly have the two best players in the world. That, if true, is a huge advantage. Then couple in the Kunitz’s, Neals, Letangs and they are just as stacked as the Hawks.Iggy, Morrow, Sutter…what happened last year? Sids jaw was the issue against the Bruins? You cannot fault Toews for the team he plays on when the Pens are just as stacked a team.But, I can consider him the best player in the NHL for what he does as the main cog of the best team in the NHL. It runs thru him, just like the Pens run thru Sid.
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Originally Posted by 223 View Post
You act as if the 2 Cups he has were earned solely on his will and determination to carry his team on his back. There's only been one instance where that damn near actually happened and that was when Messier did it in New York.
Watch both Cup finals. He was a defensive beast against the Flyers with a one way Kane and a huge black hole in Buff on his wing. Buff has taken his game to the next level after playing with Toews. Toews covered for both of them in the Hawks zone. Watch the games.Toews earned that Smythe on his defensive skills moreso then his offense.
Last year, after Toews epic meltdown against the Wings, he played some of the best hockey of his career. Who set up the goal to eliminate the over rated Kings? Who also set up the spirit breaking goal with a pass thru Chars legs? Two times I have seen Toews take over Cup finals and much of his contributuions don’t show up on the score sheet. The guy makes plays every inch of the ice. I would much rather have a guy who plays both sides of the ice and gets around 70 points then somebody who is purely an offensive player and does very little to stop the other team from scoring. Is Rob Brown better then Toews? Brown has a 100+ point and 80 point season on his resume. Perspective right there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 223 View Post
Personally I feel Datsyuk in his prime was better than both of them but that's just my opinion.
Me too, actually.

Good reply.
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