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Old 01-02-2011, 03:20 AM   #956 (permalink)
cardsrus1's Avatar
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Bloomington, Illinois
Posts: 1,386

Originally Posted by checkoutmydeals View Post
I hope you are joking!

I am absolutely not joking. Someone mentions fake autographs and the first example you come up with is my very real, very scarce card which was legally produced and licensed by the manufacturer in 1998? How does that even remotely compare to a fake autograph? A fake autograph is an autograph that was signed by a completely different person, with fraudulent intent. My 1998 SP President's Club Edition Kerry Wood actually was produced by Upper Deck. It actually was licensed by Major League Baseball. It actually was printed in 1998. It sports an Upper Deck hologram, preventing it from being "counterfeited". It has gold foil instead of silver, is printed with "President's Club Edition" on the front, and is die-cut. It actually exists, and the number in existence is very small. If the guide says that the only copies which exist are serial numbered to 10, then that is an error IN THE GUIDE. It is not an error in reality.

The legitimate cards were not even inserted 1 per case and you have 40 listed on COMC.

I have lots of cards. At one time I owned 100% of the 1887 N28 Allen And Ginter cards on the site. I have about 400 1997 Pacific Silver cards, and there were only 67 of each card produced. I'm about the only dealer on the site with any 1970's Wacky Packages cards or 1969 Brady Bunch or 1910 E98's or T212's.

How is a card illegitimate just because it was not inserted into a case? Are 1969 Topps Test cards "illegitimate"? Are 1933 Goudey Nap Lajoie's "illegitimate"? Are Topps Tiffany cards "illegitimate"? Are all file copies "illegitimate"? Beckett doesn't even price these in the first place, so how is my price "wrong"?

Why should I be punished because I have 40 cards from a particular set? Why should a buyer be prevented from the opportunity to purchase one? There are 3 million cards on the site. If these cards were as common as potatoes, why aren't there more? Here's an example of a card set that really is out of whack with it's insertion rate: 1995-96 Collector's Choice Hockey Platinum Player's Club. The Steve Yzerman books for $100, yet there are 49 on COMC, priced as low as $9. Those were inserted maybe one card per box, yet there are dozens of some of them and they routinely sell for less than 10% of guide, here and on eBay.

I can tell you, in 1996, you couldn't find those cards for love or money. So I'm willing to believe that the vast majority were distributed out the back door.

Yet, what would be the solution for that? IMO, Beckett should lower the guide price and that should be that. Instead of 50 times base (or whatever), they should probably be 10 times base. In the case of the President's Club cards, Beckett has no guide price, so there's nothing for them to lower.
And back in 95-96 you would have paid $200-$300 for the card. The reason they are easier to find now is because UD dumped them in a foreign version of Collector's Choice overseas, likely 1 per pack.

The only one that has a note is the the Wood card, the other 39 have no notation at all.

So request a condition note if it's a big deal, but remove them from the site and pretend they don't even exist? Why on Earth should these be removed from the site?
They should not have a notation because they are not the same card that they are claiming it is. Did you not see Mike's scan of what the real cards look like?

The cards were never intended to be released

Bill Buckner never intended to let the ball go through his legs. Does that mean the Red Sox won the 1986 World Series? What do intentions have to do with reality? I'm quite serious about this. When Topps was dumping cards in the ocean in 1952, do you think they "intended" for the Mickey Mantle card to one day be worth $30,000 or more? They created a product and years later, people who had the cards decided what they would be willing and able to sell them for, and people who wanted the cards decided what they would be willing and able to pay.

and were likely stolen or sold out the back door illegally.

Stolen from whom? Did they file a police report? Is there a reward for the safe return of the 'stolen' cards?

The Mona Lisa was stolen. Several times. As far as most Italians are concerned, the painting hanging in the Louvre in France is the rightful property of Italy. Does that mean it has no value? Even if Leonardo Da Vinci never intended for it to become the most valuable painting in the world and stolen by the French?

Some think that the painting hanging in the Louvre is actually a forgery, and that the original was never replaced. If that was proven to be true, the forgery would still be worth many millions of dollars, because it is the actual forgery that has fooled the art world for nearly 100 years.
Really! I think your train just left the tracks!

Maybe because the cards came directly from the In The Game at the stated card show as part of their stated redemption program?

Maybe. So 100% of all "National Card Show" overprints are 100% legit, with absolutely no distribution in "backdoor deals" and no large quantities of scarce product ever showing up on eBay or COMC? That's pretty impressive.
I am sure Dr. Price would be willing to pay you a nice reward if you can find a duplicate card from ITG's Card Show Promotions. You are aware that each cards is serial numbered and that the sets involved for each shows was even more limited? When you find this mystery person hoarding the cards let me know, I need a couple cards to complete one of the sets.

If there is no way to tell the difference then it is not a big deal, the market will correct itself

If there is a way to tell the difference, it's EVEN LESS OF A DEAL, because the market can easily distinguish between the cards it considers more valuable and the cards it considers less valuable. You can't tell the difference between a "pack pulled" Griffey and a "backdoor" Griffey, so you're willing to let the pack pulled cards be diminished in value. Yet, when you can tell the difference between a numbered insert and an unnumbered insert, you want the unnumbered insert to be removed from the marketplace, even though the market can easily place a higher value on the more "legitimate" item, if it chooses to do so.
The problems is they are not the same and should not be listed as the same thing. You cannot control the Griffeys but you can control anything that you know does not belong. Under COMC's listing policy they are not supposed to be listed since they are not in Beckett's database, but it is their discretion.

Here is another Ichiro rookie missing the serial numbering, should those cards be listed as pack inserted cards with an actual book value?

Buying 2002-03 BAP Signature Series Short Print autos I need.
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