Who has HOF potential? - Page 2

Cornerstore · 10-07-2008, 03:36 PM

I had to really think about wang, and I just don't see him being there... I feel most of his wins come from the yankees hitting and I just don't see him keeping up. I agree about Lincecum about how his frame works with his arm... however, watching him pitch is WOW... remindes me of rink ankiel when i watched him..

Munsonmanor · 10-07-2008, 04:24 PM

The only additions I have is Josh Beckett and Felix Hernandez on the young list. I would disagree about Roy Oswalt though, he already has 2 20 win seasons under his belt and well on his way to 3000 strikeouts. IF he continues and Mussina makes it in, Oswalt is definately in his talent and stat range.

thebear29 · 10-08-2008, 12:37 PM

Will there ever be another cerebral pitcher like Greg Maddux again...Most of the pitchers that we have mentioned are "power" pitchers..Is that what the future HOF pitchers will be? Look at the great match-ups between Maddux and Johnson of the 90's...It was brains vs. power....Classic....Yes Maddux is my favorite player...and I'm looking for a player that has potential to be that caliber player to start collecting...I don't watch baseball like I used to, but I still collect and enjoy the sport...So any suggestions would be great!

jbellis74 · 10-08-2008, 01:23 PM

Oswalt, F Hernandez and Beckett need to stay healthy to make that list. I dont see either of them pitching another 5-8 years. Maybe Hernandez if he can stay off the DL.

Santana and Zambrano are probably the cerbral pitchers that you speak of but they also have the power aspect.

I thought the old Pedro was more of a thinking pitcher than Maddux was/is. However; there are stories not sure if they are true that Maddux and Pedro in their prime would let a hitter beat them intentionally early in the game just so that when that same player(s) came up when the game was on the line they would out think them.

guru · 10-08-2008, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thebear29

Will there ever be another cerebral pitcher like Greg Maddux again...Most of the pitchers that we have mentioned are "power" pitchers..Is that what the future HOF pitchers will be? Look at the great match-ups between Maddux and Johnson of the 90's...It was brains vs. power....Classic....Yes Maddux is my favorite player...and I'm looking for a player that has potential to be that caliber player to start collecting...I don't watch baseball like I used to, but I still collect and enjoy the sport...So any suggestions would be great!

Brandon Webb is a Maddux type pitcher. Only been in the league for 4 years and already has a Cy Young award.

signal_fifty · 10-08-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbellis74

HOF Young Pitchers are as follows IMO

Brandon Webb
Johana Santana
Ching Mein Wang
Carlos Zambrano
Dan Haren
Cole Hamels
Scott Kazmir

Not sure on Lincecum because I dont think his small frame will keep up with his arm.

Save this list and look at it again in 15 years. I would bet that 1 or 2 of them TOPS will still be on your list. Not to discount anyone in particular, but think about the pitchers that are in the HOF. Think about the players in general, there are only 286 in the HOF over the entire history of baseball, and 72 are pitchers. It's pretty difficult to get in. These guys may have the potential, which is what the thread is about, but think of the others who had the "potential". Dwight Gooden, Brien Taylor, and Bud Smith all come to mind. Staying power and keeping up to expectations seem to be hard to come by.

davebo · 10-08-2008, 09:01 PM

How in the world did you just put Brien Taylor and Bud Smith in the same sentence with Doc Gooden?

It's hard to predict young pitchers because most pitchers don't reach their prime until 30-32. Too many things can happen to their arms before then. Look at Mark Prior, Hudson, Zito and Mulder. As they got older they fell apart.

kidandyfx · 10-08-2008, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbellis74

HOF Young Pitchers are as follows IMO

Brandon Webb
Johana Santana
Ching Mein Wang
Carlos Zambrano
Dan Haren
Cole Hamels
Scott Kazmir

Not sure on Lincecum because I dont think his small frame will keep up with his arm.

There was an interesting Sports Illustrated article this summer when Lincecum was on the cover talking about how he worked with his father (a Boeing engineer) on developing a delivery that minimized strain (it was also based on that of Sandy Koufax). While Lincecum throws harder than Maddux, they have similar builds. Maddux was listed as 6'0" and 150 lbs on his '87-'89 cards, Lincecum is 5'11" and 170 lbs.

death2redemptions · 10-09-2008, 12:30 AM

My top 5 predictions for pitchers under 30 years old (not in any order):

Brandon Webb
Career Stats: 87-62 3.24 ERA (6 seasons)
Already won a Cy Young Award and possibly another this year. Stats similar to early Greg Maddux. May possibly reach 300 wins and if ERA stays bellow 3.50 by end of career he WILL be a Hall of Fame inductee.

Tim Lincecum
Career Stats: 25-10 3.16 ERA 415 SO/373.1 IP (2 seasons)
Finished his first COMPLETE season 1st in Strikeouts, 2nd in Wins, 2nd in ERA. *IF* he follows up the rest of his career with stats similar to this season there is no denying he will reach the Hall of Fame.

Johan Santana
Career Stats: 109-51 3.11 ERA 1587 SO/1543 IP (9 seasons)
200+ Strikeouts in last 5 seasons. Finished season 1st in ERA, tied 2nd in strikeouts, 1st innings pitched. Will reach the 3000 strikeout mark, possibly even 4,000. Incredible W-L record and career ERA.

C.C. Sabathia
Career Stats: 117-73 3.66 ERA 1393 SO/1659.1 IP (8 seasons)
Won at least 15 games in 4 of his 8 seasons. Should reach at least 250 wins. Has pitched 26 complete games and 10 career shutouts. Finished 1st in complete games this season.

Jake Peavy
Career Stats: 86-62 3.25 ERA 1256 SO/1261 IP (7 seasons)
3 seasons with 200+ strikeouts. Averages nearly one strikeout per inning pitched. Could possibly win 250 games. Great career ERA.

10-07-2008, 03:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
Cornerstore Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 120 iTrader: (0 / 0%)	I had to really think about wang, and I just don't see him being there... I feel most of his wins come from the yankees hitting and I just don't see him keeping up. I agree about Lincecum about how his frame works with his arm... however, watching him pitch is WOW... remindes me of rink ankiel when i watched him.. __________________ I collect Jets players, Raul Mondesi and Ross gload baseball cards and a lifelong collector of 1990-1996 score baseball cards. In fact, i have 4 complete sets of 1995 score baseball. I am so fly.

10-08-2008, 01:23 PM	#14 (permalink)
jbellis74 Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Merrick, NY Posts: 532 iTrader: (1 / 100%) Bellis1974	Oswalt, F Hernandez and Beckett need to stay healthy to make that list. I dont see either of them pitching another 5-8 years. Maybe Hernandez if he can stay off the DL. Santana and Zambrano are probably the cerbral pitchers that you speak of but they also have the power aspect. I thought the old Pedro was more of a thinking pitcher than Maddux was/is. However; there are stories not sure if they are true that Maddux and Pedro in their prime would let a hitter beat them intentionally early in the game just so that when that same player(s) came up when the game was on the line they would out think them. __________________ "18 Wins and 1 Giant loss" Last edited by jbellis74 : 10-08-2008 at 01:25 PM.

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10-07-2008, 04:24 PM	#12 (permalink)
Munsonmanor Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 100 iTrader: (1 / 100%)	The only additions I have is Josh Beckett and Felix Hernandez on the young list. I would disagree about Roy Oswalt though, he already has 2 20 win seasons under his belt and well on his way to 3000 strikeouts. IF he continues and Mussina makes it in, Oswalt is definately in his talent and stat range.

10-08-2008, 12:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
thebear29 Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Elkins, WV Posts: 334 iTrader: (2 / 100%)	Will there ever be another cerebral pitcher like Greg Maddux again...Most of the pitchers that we have mentioned are "power" pitchers..Is that what the future HOF pitchers will be? Look at the great match-ups between Maddux and Johnson of the 90's...It was brains vs. power....Classic....Yes Maddux is my favorite player...and I'm looking for a player that has potential to be that caliber player to start collecting...I don't watch baseball like I used to, but I still collect and enjoy the sport...So any suggestions would be great!

10-08-2008, 09:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
davebo Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bridgewater, NJ Posts: 469 iTrader: (0 / 0%)	How in the world did you just put Brien Taylor and Bud Smith in the same sentence with Doc Gooden? It's hard to predict young pitchers because most pitchers don't reach their prime until 30-32. Too many things can happen to their arms before then. Look at Mark Prior, Hudson, Zito and Mulder. As they got older they fell apart.

10-09-2008, 12:30 AM	#19 (permalink)
death2redemptions Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Scottsdale Arizona Posts: 560 iTrader: (11 / 100%) ddavisaz	My top 5 predictions for pitchers under 30 years old (not in any order): Brandon Webb Career Stats: 87-62 3.24 ERA (6 seasons) Already won a Cy Young Award and possibly another this year. Stats similar to early Greg Maddux. May possibly reach 300 wins and if ERA stays bellow 3.50 by end of career he WILL be a Hall of Fame inductee. Tim Lincecum Career Stats: 25-10 3.16 ERA 415 SO/373.1 IP (2 seasons) Finished his first COMPLETE season 1st in Strikeouts, 2nd in Wins, 2nd in ERA. IF he follows up the rest of his career with stats similar to this season there is no denying he will reach the Hall of Fame. Johan Santana Career Stats: 109-51 3.11 ERA 1587 SO/1543 IP (9 seasons) 200+ Strikeouts in last 5 seasons. Finished season 1st in ERA, tied 2nd in strikeouts, 1st innings pitched. Will reach the 3000 strikeout mark, possibly even 4,000. Incredible W-L record and career ERA. C.C. Sabathia Career Stats: 117-73 3.66 ERA 1393 SO/1659.1 IP (8 seasons) Won at least 15 games in 4 of his 8 seasons. Should reach at least 250 wins. Has pitched 26 complete games and 10 career shutouts. Finished 1st in complete games this season. Jake Peavy Career Stats: 86-62 3.25 ERA 1256 SO/1261 IP (7 seasons) 3 seasons with 200+ strikeouts. Averages nearly one strikeout per inning pitched. Could possibly win 250 games. Great career ERA.