Blowout Cards Forums
Summer Sale

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASEBALL

BASEBALL Post your Baseball Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-15-2012, 01:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Posts: 1,165
Default Question for you prospectors

Not sure if many prospectors look at relief pitchers but what stats are the important ones. I'm not that big into prospecting but have been collecting a player I went to high school with and I want to see how he is doing. Besides stats like ERA, K/IP, and the "worthless" Wins and Saves, I don't know which stats are the most relevant for relief pitchers.

Any help is appreciated. The player in case you are wondering is Mike Nesseth in the Phillies organization.
mcdo0423 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 01:23 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Prospectors and Relievers are two words don't belong together. We try to avoid relievers at all costs. Any hint a player is becoming a reliever, you dump all cards no matter how much of a loss you get.
messier2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 01:38 PM   #3 (permalink)
Member
 
bigsmoot2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: MN
Posts: 5,060
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by messier2 View Post
Prospectors and Relievers are two words don't belong together. We try to avoid relievers at all costs. Any hint a player is becoming a reliever, you dump all cards no matter how much of a loss you get.
Yep, pretty much the curse of death for a pitching prospect (getting moved to the pen), at least in hopes of making any money. Another one of the dangers when prospecting pitchers, that and injuries make them a risky proposition.

I would say WHIP, % of stranding inherited runners and K/IP would be your most important stats as a reliever, to answer your question.
__________________
FAN OF: CHICAGO CUBS & DENVER BRONCOS
bigsmoot2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 01:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Posts: 1,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by messier2 View Post
Prospectors and Relievers are two words don't belong together. We try to avoid relievers at all costs. Any hint a player is becoming a reliever, you dump all cards no matter how much of a loss you get.
The good news is I'm not prospecting, I'm just PC'ing him as we went to school together so I don't care about a loss. I was just thinking prospectors would be good people to ask about what stats to look at for minor leaguers.
mcdo0423 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 01:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdo0423 View Post
The good news is I'm not prospecting, I'm just PC'ing him as we went to school together so I don't care about a loss. I was just thinking prospectors would be good people to ask about what stats to look at for minor leaguers.
Right but once a player converts to being a reliever, we pretty much don't care anymore so I'm not sure what stats to look for!
messier2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 01:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Posts: 1,165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by messier2 View Post
Right but once a player converts to being a reliever, we pretty much don't care anymore so I'm not sure what stats to look for!
Guess I will just have to go off the stats I know and see if they progress through the minors. Thanks for your input.
mcdo0423 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 02:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
Member
 
7290morint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdo0423 View Post
Guess I will just have to go off the stats I know and see if they progress through the minors. Thanks for your input.
The problem is stats in the minors are definitely contextual because competition across all the levels is very inconsistent. Not every team is loaded with prospects & there are fillers as well. As far as relievers go, it's tough get a grasp on "what stats are good" because even top relievers like Papelbon & Rivera are worth only an additional 2 Wins above replacement. Obviously you are PC'ing him because he went to your high school. Best to just keep going and see if he makes the majors.
__________________
Looking for 2011 Topps Tribute Black Refractors #'d/10: 69/100 so far
7290morint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 02:49 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 2,621
Default

my best advice is to not buy anything higher end for a bit because right now people would see his cards and be a fan of a team and still think maybe he could be a starter one day, once it's obvious he won't be you can have all of the pretty color refractors, etc that you want for next to nothing
__________________
SET or PLAYER collectors? Check out my inventory:

http://marketplace.beckett.com/thescoutscards_1260
thescout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
Gibberish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 6,660
Default

Right
I am so glad I dumped my Mariano 92 Bowmans.....no.
I am collecting such a player now

__________________
I Collect Marbles,Amazing Spider-man comics and tears! Mr. Sensitivity at your service
Gibberish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
7290morint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
Right
I am so glad I dumped my Mariano 92 Bowmans.....no.
I am collecting such a player now

Come on, you are seriously making this comparison? Rivera was a starting pitcher when he was first called up to the Yankees. He was getting rocked so they decided to try something else and put him in the bullpen. I seriously doubt anybody thought he wold become the best relief pitcher of all time. Furthermore, I would treat him as the exception as opposed to the rule. As for your picture of Pat Venditte, he is nothing more than a novelty act at this point. I cannot imagine he makes any sort of impact at the major league level.
__________________
Looking for 2011 Topps Tribute Black Refractors #'d/10: 69/100 so far
7290morint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
Gibberish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 6,660
Default

No
i am making a generlized remark in relation to the topic at hand :0
I mean, I can pull up Goose or Rollie if that works :P
Per venditte, numbers and an oddity make for more than a novelty.
2.77 ERA to date. Review his stats from the last 2 years. If you are going to be biased, 790, please widen it for me just a tid bit, a fellow forum banterer :P
__________________
I Collect Marbles,Amazing Spider-man comics and tears! Mr. Sensitivity at your service
Gibberish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
7290morint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
No
i am making a generlized remark in relation to the topic at hand :0
I mean, I can pull up Goose or Rollie if that works :P
Per venditte, numbers and an oddity make for more than a novelty.
2.77 ERA to date. Review his stats from the last 2 years.
If you are going to be biased, 790, please widen it for me just a tid bit, a fellow forum banterer :P
You can't just go by minor league numbers & stats, especially when there is repeating of levels (High A & Double A). Competition is so inconsistent at them & not every team is facing quality hitters/pitchers. Some are stacked & some are barren. Stuff & velocity says he's not going to contribute in a major way. Bias has nothing to do with it.
__________________
Looking for 2011 Topps Tribute Black Refractors #'d/10: 69/100 so far
7290morint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 04:58 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jacksonville, TX
Posts: 1,165
Default

At this point I'm pretty lucky since he has only been in 2010 elite so cards are very cheap. He has been used as both a reliever and a starter (faired much better as a reliever).
mcdo0423 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 05:00 PM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
Gibberish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 6,660
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7290morint View Post
You can't just go by minor league numbers & stats, especially when there is repeating of levels (High A & Double A). Competition is so inconsistent at them & not every team is facing quality hitters/pitchers. Some are stacked & some are barren. Stuff & velocity says he's not going to contribute in a major way. Bias has nothing to do with it.
yes, BUT
Consistency between A,AA and now AAA International league with the teams they are facing ?
Come on now...
Well,we shall see and i hope you eat your words
__________________
I Collect Marbles,Amazing Spider-man comics and tears! Mr. Sensitivity at your service
Gibberish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 05:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
Gibberish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 6,660
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdo0423 View Post
Not sure if many prospectors look at relief pitchers but what stats are the important ones. I'm not that big into prospecting but have been collecting a player I went to high school with and I want to see how he is doing. Besides stats like ERA, K/IP, and the "worthless" Wins and Saves, I don't know which stats are the most relevant for relief pitchers.

Any help is appreciated. The player in case you are wondering is Mike Nesseth in the Phillies organization.
ok

IP
H
H/9
So/9
ERA

I could care less about whip, games played, games won,games lost. Those parts of the game do not apply,at least to me,to the person on the mound.

Sometimes I do look at ER....but only when I see High strike numbers with high ERA.


Your guy is middle of the road.
__________________
I Collect Marbles,Amazing Spider-man comics and tears! Mr. Sensitivity at your service
Gibberish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 05:06 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
7290morint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 5,783
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibberish View Post
yes, BUT
Consistency between A,AA and now AAA International league with the teams they are facing ?
Come on now...
Well,we shall see and i hope you eat your words
If he becomes an impact player, I will be the first to admit that I am wrong.
__________________
Looking for 2011 Topps Tribute Black Refractors #'d/10: 69/100 so far
7290morint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2012, 05:07 PM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
CALVINXLIONSX81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,048
Default

go collect Castellanos
__________________
Dream Card - Purchased!
Ziggy is the Ansah!
CALVINXLIONSX81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.