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Old 08-17-2012, 01:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Where did I say all? Don't put words in my mouth.

Second, it's right there for you. Nobody cares about homeruns or RBI's when it comes to the MVP vote. WAR is what they look at.

Hell, just hold all this stuff until the end of the year, and if he wins, post all your crap wherever you want. We don't need the same discussion EVERY SINGLE DAY.
"and Trout is ahead of Miguel in most important categories.", first off if they dont look at HR and RBI's why did Hamilton win in 2010, exactly

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WAR is the best argument anyone can make...and he's done it in 20 less games than Cabrera.
20 less games makes it a lot easier for his war to be boosted
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:33 PM   #27 (permalink)
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So when Miguel Cabrera is 35 and half in the bag every game and is hitting over .300 with 20+ home runs you want him to retire?

What am I missing here?
sounds like it...what a nutjob
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Ortiz is a scrub
I think he was being facetious. Ortiz was used to illustrate your blatant Homer-ism

Detroit can have the YAY WE HAVE AN MVP party.

Wake me up when you win a World Series
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:34 PM   #29 (permalink)
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"and Trout is ahead of Miguel in most important categories.", first off if they dont look at HR and RBI's why did Hamilton win in 2010, exactly
Because he led in WAR too, lol
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:35 PM   #30 (permalink)
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"and Trout is ahead of Miguel in most important categories.", first off if they dont look at HR and RBI's why did Hamilton win in 2010, exactly



20 less games makes it a lot easier for his war to be boosted
because if you look at this chart, in 2010 he had the highest WAR value and again it wasn't close: Hamilton at 8.5 with Longoria second at 7.6. Seriously, this is too easy. Your argument for Cabrera as MVP is like the Texas voter who put Michael Young on his ballot last year. Laughable at best.

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Old 08-17-2012, 01:36 PM   #31 (permalink)
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"and Trout is ahead of Miguel in most important categories.", first off if they dont look at HR and RBI's why did Hamilton win in 2010, exactly
You truly are the biggest homer on these boards. Stop, you bother the hell out of everyone. Like I've told you, take off the Tiger blinders, and then talk to me about who should win the MVP.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:37 PM   #32 (permalink)
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20 less games makes it a lot easier for his war to be boosted
WAR is a cumulative stat, much like home runs or RBIs. It just takes much more into account.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:39 PM   #33 (permalink)
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WAR is a cumulative stat, much like home runs or RBIs. It just takes much more into account.
This is true, but it doesn't take more into account, it takes things that players are actually responsible for into account. Offensively AND Defensively.

This is how the fangraphs version of WAR works (which I prefer to the Baseball Reference version, since they use Defensive Runs Saved):

● Offensive players – Take wRAA, UBR, and UZR (which express offensive, base running, and defensive value in runs above average) and add them together. Add in a positional adjustment, since some positions are tougher to play than others, and then convert the numbers so that they’re not based on league average, but on replacement level (which is the value a team would lose if they had to replace that player with a “replacement” player – a minor leaguer or someone from the waiver wire). Convert the run value to wins (10 runs = 1 win) and voila, finished!
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:39 PM   #34 (permalink)
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"and Trout is ahead of Miguel in most important categories.", first off if they dont look at HR and RBI's why did Hamilton win in 2010, exactly



20 less games makes it a lot easier for his war to be boosted

1) hamilton led in war, average, obp, slugging, and DIDN'T LEAD IN HOME RUNS OR RBIS

2) you don't know war works do you?
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:43 PM   #35 (permalink)
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20 less games makes it a lot easier for his war to be boosted
That makes absolutely no sense.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Detroit fans are the worst
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:47 PM   #37 (permalink)
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because if you look at this chart, in 2010 he had the highest WAR value and again it wasn't close: Hamilton at 8.5 with Longoria second at 7.6. Seriously, this is too easy. Your argument for Cabrera as MVP is like the Texas voter who put Michael Young on his ballot last year. Laughable at best.

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The past 5 years every MVP hitter was in the top 2 in WAR. Cabrera isn't. /thread
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:49 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I'm not just looking at offensive categories. Wins Above Replacement (WAR) shows that Trout IS the best player in the AL and it's not disputable. You want a debate go elsewhere, WAR shows that there is no debate. It's Trout and it's end of discussion. It's now possible to measure offensive & defensive production & when you take them into account it's trout. Why would you base MVP on only offensive contributions, especially when offensive contributions are not equal around the board.
While I agree with this 100% id be willing to bet half the writers who get a vote have never heard of, or dismiss this as a real stat sadly. I think he obviously wins ROY in a landslide, but I'd bet that someone else wins MVP, whether or not they deserve it.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:54 PM   #39 (permalink)
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While I agree with this 100% id be willing to bet half the writers who get a vote have never heard of, or dismiss this as a real stat sadly. I think he obviously wins ROY in a landslide, but I'd bet that someone else wins MVP, whether or not they deserve it.
A baseball writer than hasn't heard of WAR at this point is not employable, IMO...whether or not they choose to use it is up to them, but sabermetrics have become so prevalent over the past few years that it would almost seem impossible NOT to have heard of it.

I think a lot of old baseball folks tend who dismiss it as mumbo jumbo would appreciate it more if they took the time to understand what actually comprises it.
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Old 08-17-2012, 01:55 PM   #40 (permalink)
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please use correct grammer, as in scrub i mean somebody who is past his prime who should retire already

You don't have a problem with poor spelling, though?

IF Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, he has a shot. IF!
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:00 PM   #41 (permalink)
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IF Cabrera wins the Triple Crown, he has a shot. IF!
Can't dispute that. If there's one thing that'll cause the stat folks to look a little bit past the sabermetrics, it'll be the first Triple Crown in 45 years.

I'm not a fan of this particular way of thinking, but voters will likely be influenced if Detroit makes the playoffs and the Angels don't.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:02 PM   #42 (permalink)
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A baseball writer than hasn't heard of WAR at this point is not employable, IMO...whether or not they choose to use it is up to them, but sabermetrics have become so prevalent over the past few years that it would almost seem impossible NOT to have heard of it.

I think a lot of old baseball folks tend who dismiss it as mumbo jumbo would appreciate it more if they took the time to understand what actually comprises it.
Unfortunately there are still sports writers that are employed who do not believe in them. These are also the same ones that said Jeff Bagwell is not worthy of the hall of fame because he played in the "steriods era such as this one: Jeff Bagwell a 'No' for This Hall Voter and there was at least one other one that I know of but cannot find the link to.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:06 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Ortiz is a scrub
...who doesn't get drunk and beat up his wife.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:07 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Nothing wrong with getting drunk and I wish someone would beat up my wife. Won't be me though - she's a black belt in Kung Fu.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:08 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I dont agree that it is ALL about WAR.

Last year, Verlander was second among AL pitchers in WAR and there were six AL batter with higher WAR ratings. If it was all about WAR, Ellsbury would have won it by a landslide.

And all that said, Trout will win it this year unless he collapses in September.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:16 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Miguel Cabrera is the best proven hitter in the game. He's been putting up the numbers consistently for nearly 10 years. I truly hope he wins the triple crown this year. All I'm going to say is that I hope he wins the MVP, because I think he deserves to win. Come back in 10 years and tell me how special Trout is. He will probably continue to live up to expectations, but if you watched Cabrera every day you would realize that players like him don't come around too often.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:20 PM   #47 (permalink)
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F all of this, I'll end it right here, right now...

To the surprise and dismay of all interested parties, the media will decide that announcing one MVP for each league is far too excessive, and will nominate everyones favorite 19-year old, and I must say, I'm in agreement with this decision

Carry on, fine folks, carry on.
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:21 PM   #48 (permalink)
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F all of this, I'll end it right here, right now...

To the surprise and dismay to all interested parties, the media will decide that announcing one MVP for each league is far too excessive, and will nominate everyones favorite 19-year old, and I must say, I'm in agreement with this decision

Carry on, fine folks, carry on.
Can i nominate you for MVP?
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:26 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Can i nominate you for MVP?
That's a clown question, bro...I'm not 19
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Old 08-17-2012, 02:27 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Miguel Cabrera is the best proven hitter in the game. He's been putting up the numbers consistently for nearly 10 years. I truly hope he wins the triple crown this year. All I'm going to say is that I hope he wins the MVP, because I think he deserves to win. Come back in 10 years and tell me how special Trout is. He will probably continue to live up to expectations, but if you watched Cabrera every day you would realize that players like him don't come around too often.
and if you watched trout every day you would realize that players like him don't come around too often

oh and I think pujols may be a little better proven hitter of the last 10 years...
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