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Old 09-11-2012, 08:49 PM   #451 (permalink)
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Dickey on point. Gotta give him credit, guys lights out on that crap team.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:51 PM   #452 (permalink)
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Dickey on point. Gotta give him credit, guys lights out on that crap team.
May end up going the distance (69 pitches through 6), and might get his 200th K tonight, as well! Woooo!

Been watching most of the game, but didn't want to jinx it.
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:05 PM   #453 (permalink)
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May end up going the distance (69 pitches through 6), and might get his 200th K tonight, as well! Woooo!

Been watching most of the game, but didn't want to jinx it.
Aye, blame this one on me, Cy Young voters...
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:46 PM   #454 (permalink)
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Dickey on point. Gotta give him credit, guys lights out on that crap team.
Jynxxxx hahaha
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:51 PM   #455 (permalink)
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He didn't pitch bad
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Old 09-11-2012, 09:54 PM   #456 (permalink)
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He didn't pitch bad
Hell no, unfortunately an untimely HR was hit, and he didn't (Once again) get much run support. It's too bad.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:20 PM   #457 (permalink)
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Dickey takes an L and his ERA went up.. PERFECT NIGHT! All of those "ifs" I spoke about are turning into reality!
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:33 PM   #458 (permalink)
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Dickey takes an L and his ERA went up.. PERFECT NIGHT! All of those "ifs" I spoke about are turning into reality!
Hell yeah, I know I changed my tune! Dickey threw up a real stinker tonight.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:46 PM   #459 (permalink)
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Hell yeah, I know I changed my tune! Dickey threw up a real stinker tonight.

Nope he pitched ok.. Not like Gio has lately I can tell you that.. People don't remember what you did in April and May, they remember what you do in August and September.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:59 PM   #460 (permalink)
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Nope he pitched ok.. Not like Gio has lately I can tell you that.. People don't remember what you did in April and May, they remember what you do in August and September.
Yes, people will remember the 6-inning, 1-run, 5-walk gem against the potent New York Mets offense on September 10, 2012 and say that is indeed the exact point in time when the tides turned for Gio Gonzalez.
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Old 09-12-2012, 12:45 AM   #461 (permalink)
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Yes, people will remember the 6-inning, 1-run, 5-walk gem against the potent New York Mets offense on September 10, 2012 and say that is indeed the exact point in time when the tides turned for Gio Gonzalez.


No but they will definitely remember the 16 scoreless innings and complete game shutout he threw before that against the Cardinals few games ago. Your boys Dickey and Cueto will continue to collapse on their last few starts of the season. Can't wait!
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Old 09-12-2012, 07:59 AM   #462 (permalink)
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I never had anything against Gio before this thread started. Now, I hope he falls off the map, because Swingman and Gio47 are so beyond annoying. Gio isn't even in my top 4 yet and he needs to pitch lights out down the stretch AND have Dickey, Kershaw, Cueto, and Chapman completely collapse to even be thought of as a true candidate. I know the two posters in this thread with so much bias will disagree, but that's okay, not everyone can be objective.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:22 AM   #463 (permalink)
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I never had anything against Gio before this thread started. Now, I hope he falls off the map, because Swingman and Gio47 are so beyond annoying. Gio isn't even in my top 4 yet and he needs to pitch lights out down the stretch AND have Dickey, Kershaw, Cueto, and Chapman completely collapse to even be thought of as a true candidate. I know the two posters in this thread with so much bias will disagree, but that's okay, not everyone can be objective.

Don't say you hope he falls off the map, I don't care to rub it in anybodies face if he wins. Now for you to say that Aroldis Chapman, Kershaw or Cueto are ahead of him at this point, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you on that one.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:23 AM   #464 (permalink)
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Nope he pitched ok.. Not like Gio has lately I can tell you that.. People don't remember what you did in April and May, they remember what you do in August and September.
August, September and late-season scoreless streaks? Let's just give the award to Kris Medlen already!
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:23 AM   #465 (permalink)
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Aw, I'm not hoping for anyone to collapse. I'd love to see Gonzalez win the award, I think he's a good guy. But I do take offense to Dickey and Cueto being called my "boys" when I (and JA and others) have really just tried to offer objective viewpoints here. It's obvious by usernames and by association who lacks the capacity to think objectively about this.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:38 AM   #466 (permalink)
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How come noones talking about Kershaw!
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:42 AM   #467 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnAndrew View Post
August, September and late-season scoreless streaks? Let's just give the award to Kris Medlen already!

Haha kid has been pitching lights out, might as well!
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:43 AM   #468 (permalink)
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Don't say you hope he falls off the map, I don't care to rub it in anybodies face if he wins. Now for you to say that Aroldis Chapman, Kershaw or Cueto are ahead of him at this point, I am going to have to strongly disagree with you on that one.
Kershaw: 206.2 IP, 206 K, 2.70 ERA, 1.02 WHIP, 4.6 WAR
Gonzalez: 181.1 IP, 191 K, 2.93 ERA, 1.113 WHIP, 4.1 WAR

Kershaw has a better ERA, better WHIP, and goes deeper into games. He has a high strikeout rate as well, although just slightly below Gio. And for people who worship WAR, Kershaw has the edge there too. I am not sure how you can even make an argument for Gio over Kershaw, there is nothing factual you can use to make a strong argument. And don't say wins, because wins do not reflect a pitcher's performance.

Chapman has pitched out of this world this year and is just destroying batters. Hell, he even has a WAR of 3.3, which is astronomical for a RP. You can't compare pitchers' WAR to hitters' WAR, but you can't really compare SP WAR to RP WAR either.

My vote, right now, would go to Kershaw. For you to say Gio is a better candidate to win over Kershaw is nothing more than your bloodlines clogging your ability to think clearly.

You could make an argument for Gio over Cueto, but it's close.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:44 AM   #469 (permalink)
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Aw, I'm not hoping for anyone to collapse. I'd love to see Gonzalez win the award, I think he's a good guy. But I do take offense to Dickey and Cueto being called my "boys" when I (and JA and others) have really just tried to offer objective viewpoints here. It's obvious by usernames and by association who lacks the capacity to think objectively about this.

Dude relax its not that big of a deal. I am just messing with you, if you don't like them to be called "your boys" then my apologies. I was just using the term to refer them as your candidates to win the award.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:46 AM   #470 (permalink)
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Gio currently in 1st in ESPN Cy Young Predictor.

2012 MLB Baseball Cy Young Predictor - Major League Baseball - ESPN

In before 10 people tell me how bad that predictor is and how Gio isn't winning it.

Last edited by Gio47; 09-12-2012 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:51 AM   #471 (permalink)
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Gio currently in 1st in ESPN Cy Young Predictor.

2012 MLB Baseball Cy Young Predictor - Major League Baseball - ESPN

In before 10 people tell me how bad that predictor is and how Gio isn't winning it.
We covered this yesterday, actually. Go read what we talked about.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:54 AM   #472 (permalink)
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Dude relax its not that big of a deal. I am just messing with you, if you don't like them to be called "your boys" then my apologies. I was just using the term to refer them as your candidates to win the award.
LOL, I'm not upset. It's just that Gio is your boy (rightfully so), and Dickey and Cueto are just some guys with funny names to me. I don't have boys. Not since Richie Sexson.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:55 AM   #473 (permalink)
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LOL, I'm not upset. It's just that Gio is your boy (rightfully so), and Dickey and Cueto are just some guys with funny names to me. I don't have boys. Not since Richie Sexson.

LOL I haven't heard that name in a while!
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:10 AM   #474 (permalink)
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Yes, people will remember the 6-inning, 1-run, 5-walk gem against the potent New York Mets offense on September 10, 2012 and say that is indeed the exact point in time when the tides turned for Gio Gonzalez.
Because I wanted to:

August 2012 Splits
6 GS, 45.0 IP, 2.00 ERA - R.A. Dickey
6 GS, 43.1 IP, 2.49 ERA - Clayton Kershaw
6 GS, 44.1 IP, 2.64 ERA - Gio Gonzalez
6 GS, 42.1 IP, 2.79 ERA - Johnny Cueto

September 2012 Splits
2 GS, 14.0 IP, 0.64 ERA - Clayton Kershaw
2 GS, 13.0 IP, 0.69 ERA - Gio Gonzalez
2 GS, 13.2 IP, 3.29 ERA - R.A. Dickey
2 GS, 11.0 IP, 6.55 ERA - Johnny Cueto

August + September 2012 Splits
8 GS, 57.1 IP, 2.04 ERA - Clayton Kershaw
8 GS, 57.1 IP, 2.20 ERA - Gio Gonzalez
8 GS, 58.2 IP, 2.30 ERA - R.A. Dickey
8 GS, 53.1 IP, 3.54 ERA - Johnny Cueto

So no matter how you dice it, Gio Gonzalez hasn't exactly been blowing his competition out of the water down the stretch. Kershaw has been better in BOTH months and Dickey was better in August. Cueto has indeed had a disastrous September, but his August numbers are nothing to shake a stick at. But now, we have to move on to the overall picture, because you obviously can't make a case for Gio with his August and September numbers alone.

I'll start with Cueto, because he's been catching a lot of flak around here lately by those who are refusing to look at anything outside of his last two starts. Presently, there are 39 pitchers in the National League with over 160 innings pitched. Out of those 39, Cueto ranks 34th in run support average (Gio is 1st, by the way). Over the past few months, when Votto was out and the Reds were in a battle in the NL Central, Cueto gave them solid performances, week after week, and despite poor run support, actually pitched them to WINS when they needed them most. That is why Cueto's Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is so high -- with practically no help from his offense, Johnny not only kept his team in the game but led them to victory. I've been the biggest advocate in this thread of not taking W-L at face value. When you look at his record and THEN look at his run support, you start to get a better idea of the bigger picture.

As far as Kershaw goes...well, let's look at the numbers:

Innings Pitched
1) 206.2 - Kershaw
2) 205.0 - Dickey
...
5) 192.2 - Cueto
...
12) 181.1 - Gonzalez

ERA
1) 2.68 - Dickey
2) 2.70 - Kershaw
3) 2.71 - Cueto
...
5) 2.93 Gonzalez

WHIP
1) 1.016 - Kershaw
...
3) 1.044 - Dickey
...
7) 1.125 - Gonzalez
8) 1.152 - Cueto

Kershaw is first or second in what are likely the three most important things in determining Cy Young. For people that want to play the strikeout card...well, he leads in that too, just for good measure.

Last night, Clayton gave up one, unearned run in the 7th inning in what would've otherwise been a fine performance: 3 walks, 3 hits in 7 frames. By all accounts, better than Gio on Monday and R.A. yesterday. So what does he have to show for it? A big, fat L, because the Dodgers can't buy a run and Hanley Ramirez committed a throwing error. Hanley Ramirez is literally directly responsible for Clayton Kershaw taking a loss last night. That's basically been his season in a nutshell.

So, if these past few nights have proved anything to me, it's that the top three are probably a little closer than I thought a week ago. Kershaw probably made the biggest move out of anyone. Gio was good, Dickey was pretty good, Kershaw was great. Cueto was...eh, I went over him already.

I still think this is gonna be a three-man race between Kershaw, Dickey and Cueto. Based on the findings I outlined in my posts yesterday, I don't think Gio will log quite enough innings to get the majority of the votes. Of course, there is a possibility that history does not repeat itself this time around, but I don't think Gio's numbers are quite electric enough and his "performance down the stretch" -- if you seriously believe that weighs heavily on voters' minds -- does not distance him from his competition.
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:48 AM   #475 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnAndrew View Post
Because I wanted to:

August 2012 Splits
6 GS, 45.0 IP, 2.00 ERA - R.A. Dickey
6 GS, 43.1 IP, 2.49 ERA - Clayton Kershaw
6 GS, 44.1 IP, 2.64 ERA - Gio Gonzalez
6 GS, 42.1 IP, 2.79 ERA - Johnny Cueto

September 2012 Splits
2 GS, 14.0 IP, 0.64 ERA - Clayton Kershaw
2 GS, 13.0 IP, 0.69 ERA - Gio Gonzalez
2 GS, 13.2 IP, 3.29 ERA - R.A. Dickey
2 GS, 11.0 IP, 6.55 ERA - Johnny Cueto

August + September 2012 Splits
8 GS, 57.1 IP, 2.04 ERA - Clayton Kershaw
8 GS, 57.1 IP, 2.20 ERA - Gio Gonzalez
8 GS, 58.2 IP, 2.30 ERA - R.A. Dickey
8 GS, 53.1 IP, 3.54 ERA - Johnny Cueto

So no matter how you dice it, Gio Gonzalez hasn't exactly been blowing his competition out of the water down the stretch. Kershaw has been better in BOTH months and Dickey was better in August. Cueto has indeed had a disastrous September, but his August numbers are nothing to shake a stick at. But now, we have to move on to the overall picture, because you obviously can't make a case for Gio with his August and September numbers alone.

I'll start with Cueto, because he's been catching a lot of flak around here lately by those who are refusing to look at anything outside of his last two starts. Presently, there are 39 pitchers in the National League with over 160 innings pitched. Out of those 39, Cueto ranks 34th in run support average (Gio is 1st, by the way). Over the past few months, when Votto was out and the Reds were in a battle in the NL Central, Cueto gave them solid performances, week after week, and despite poor run support, actually pitched them to WINS when they needed them most. That is why Cueto's Wins Above Replacement (WAR) is so high -- with practically no help from his offense, Johnny not only kept his team in the game but led them to victory. I've been the biggest advocate in this thread of not taking W-L at face value. When you look at his record and THEN look at his run support, you start to get a better idea of the bigger picture.

As far as Kershaw goes...well, let's look at the numbers:

Innings Pitched
1) 206.2 - Kershaw
2) 205.0 - Dickey
...
5) 192.2 - Cueto
...
12) 181.1 - Gonzalez

ERA
1) 2.68 - Dickey
2) 2.70 - Kershaw
3) 2.71 - Cueto
...
5) 2.93 Gonzalez

WHIP
1) 1.016 - Kershaw
...
3) 1.044 - Dickey
...
7) 1.125 - Gonzalez
8) 1.152 - Cueto

Kershaw is first or second in what are likely the three most important things in determining Cy Young. For people that want to play the strikeout card...well, he leads in that too, just for good measure.

Last night, Clayton gave up one, unearned run in the 7th inning in what would've otherwise been a fine performance: 3 walks, 3 hits in 7 frames. By all accounts, better than Gio on Monday and R.A. yesterday. So what does he have to show for it? A big, fat L, because the Dodgers can't buy a run and Hanley Ramirez committed a throwing error. Hanley Ramirez is literally directly responsible for Clayton Kershaw taking a loss last night. That's basically been his season in a nutshell.

So, if these past few nights have proved anything to me, it's that the top three are probably a little closer than I thought a week ago. Kershaw probably made the biggest move out of anyone. Gio was good, Dickey was pretty good, Kershaw was great. Cueto was...eh, I went over him already.

I still think this is gonna be a three-man race between Kershaw, Dickey and Cueto. Based on the findings I outlined in my posts yesterday, I don't think Gio will log quite enough innings to get the majority of the votes. Of course, there is a possibility that history does not repeat itself this time around, but I don't think Gio's numbers are quite electric enough and his "performance down the stretch" -- if you seriously believe that weighs heavily on voters' minds -- does not distance him from his competition.

I'm really happy that your really interested in finding out all these stats and compiling all of these different theories to try and prove your case but to be honest, your AGAIN nitpicking the categories the candidates your choosing to win are excelling at. I don't really care what anyone here has to say, neither should you guys care what I have to say. I am enjoying this thread because you guys get so angry over the smallest remarks when I am just messing around trying to get a rise out of guys. Ease up a little bit. If there were 4 Cy Young awards they would go to Cueto, Dickey, Kershaw and Gio but there isn't, there is only 1. Until that is decided I am going to continue to point out when either of these 3 guys lose or pitch bad (not to say that is going to happen) but I will also point out when they pitch well also.

Unfortunate for Kershaw yes, he didn't deserve that loss yesterday but it happens. Gio lost 2-1 to the Marlins in July in his homecoming where he pitched a great game, did he deserve to lose, probably not but it happens. I can name atleast 2 times where Gio took a small lead into the 9th and had Brad Lidge blow it for him. He would be over 20 wins with those, its baseball things are gonna happen. Did Dickey pitch his best game of the season? No, but did he pitch up to par how he has this season? No chance. Has Cueto pitched up to par his last two starts? Not even close but thats the beauty of the game. You can be a stud one week and a dud the next. This is baseball everything changes from week to week, like they say, your only as good as your last outing.
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