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Old 09-22-2012, 11:32 PM   #676 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by MetDude View Post
Gio has 2 more losses then Dickey
Dont feel like looking up the winning % for you
but
Advantage Dickey!
Great point
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:32 PM   #677 (permalink)
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Haha I'm all for dickey, but the goal in baseball is to win.....
Last I checked, the pitcher doesn't have a 100% impact on whether the game is won or lost for a multitude of reasons. Good point though.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:48 PM   #678 (permalink)
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Last I checked, the pitcher doesn't have a 100% impact on whether the game is won or lost for a multitude of reasons. Good point though.
Yeah Im aware, but the pitcher is (IMO) the most Important player on the field. And the outcome of the game relies heavily on how the pitcher performs. And w-l is a very important stat to me. The voters will look at the "hard luck losses". But the amount of W's a pitcher produces is a huge part of winning a cy young, along with a great era.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:45 PM   #679 (permalink)
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I have been saying I have thought Dickey was slightly ahead this whole time but on a very serious non-homer note, Gio is now ahead in the Cy Young race in my mind.

Gio getting to 20 wins was huge, first in MLB's to do so. He's the horse on his team and he has led them to first place not only in the Natonal League but they have the best record in all of MLB. Gio has done a great job getting his ERA down, he's only 0.16 behind Dickey, only 8 k's behind as well. Gio will get over the 200 inning mark and probably end up with 21 wins. Currently, he is now ahead in the ESPN Cy Young Predictor as well which more often that not has been right. I really think he will win this years Cy Young.

Last edited by Gio47; 09-23-2012 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:48 PM   #680 (permalink)
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Also I've been saying this all along, the names Johnny Cueto, Matt Cain, Kyle Lohse and Aroldis Chapman are OUT of the Cy Young race. Mentioning these people is a waste of time unless you are talking about finishing 3-5th in voting.
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:52 PM   #681 (permalink)
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You may want to go check out that Cy Young predictor again.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:11 PM   #682 (permalink)
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You may want to go check out that Cy Young predictor again.
Its updated since last night eh ?

Thanks for a factual point.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:19 PM   #683 (permalink)
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Gio Gonzalez should win the award.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:22 PM   #684 (permalink)
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Can't wait to see how many views this has by the announcement of the award
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:23 PM   #685 (permalink)
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Yeah Im aware, but the pitcher is (IMO) the most Important player on the field. And the outcome of the game relies heavily on how the pitcher performs. And w-l is a very important stat to me. The voters will look at the "hard luck losses". But the amount of W's a pitcher produces is a huge part of winning a cy young, along with a great era.
Good point. Check out Felix's stats. Outside of his 2009 season, he would be a staggering 9 games over .500 for his entire career. Or just check out seasons:

2008: 9-11, 3.45 ERA
2010: 13-12, 2.27 ERA
2011: 14-14, 3.47 ERA
2012: 13-8, 2.85 ERA

He must just be marginal then, since he can't win very often.

Wins are a completely and utterly useless statistic to use to judge a pitcher.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:26 PM   #686 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by btimm View Post
Good point. Check out Felix's stats. Outside of his 2009 season, he would be a staggering 9 games over .500 for his entire career. Or just check out seasons:

2008: 9-11, 3.45 ERA
2010: 13-12, 2.27 ERA
2011: 14-14, 3.47 ERA
2012: 13-8, 2.85 ERA

He must just be marginal then, since he can't win very often.

Wins are a completely and utterly useless statistic to use to judge a pitcher.
You must have just ran by the "the voters will check hard luck losses". Felix has gotten many of those.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:28 PM   #687 (permalink)
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You must have just ran by the "the voters will check hard luck losses". Felix has gotten many of those.
No, he has got many of the "My team sucks and can't give me run support to save my life" losses. Wins are to pitchers, as RBI are to hitters. Useless.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:41 PM   #688 (permalink)
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No, he has got many of the "My team sucks and can't give me run support to save my life" losses. Wins are to pitchers, as RBI are to hitters. Useless.
okay I i can see your point for wins not being important, but RBI's?!? You must be crazy. Runs win ball games
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:51 PM   #689 (permalink)
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I think Dickey should win it, but would like to see Gio win it.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:51 PM   #690 (permalink)
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Very curious to see what Kershaw does tonight...
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:19 PM   #691 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich View Post
okay I i can see your point for wins not being important, but RBI's?!? You must be crazy. Runs win ball games
...and they depend almost entirely on how well your teammates get on base in front of you.

I don't know how many times we can go through this.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:22 PM   #692 (permalink)
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...and they depend almost entirely on how well your teammates get on base in front of you.

I don't know how many times we can go through this.
It still takes clutch hitting to get them in, the mindset of a hitter changes when you have guys On second and third compared to nobody on.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:23 PM   #693 (permalink)
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It still takes clutch hitting to get them in, the mindset of a hitter changes when you have guys On second and third compared to nobody on.
Clutch hitting is pretty much a myth. A good hitter is a good hitter.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:24 PM   #694 (permalink)
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It still takes clutch hitting to get them in, the mindset of a hitter changes when you have guys On second and third compared to nobody on.
So your telling me one guy hits a deep fly ball to left for an out. The next guy hits that same fly ball, but he gets an RBI because someone got on in front of him.

That makes player 2 better?
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:26 PM   #695 (permalink)
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okay I i can see your point for wins not being important, but RBI's?!? You must be crazy. Runs win ball games
I can't tell if you are being serious or if you are just pulling people's legs here.

I give you Sammy Sosa, the first player that came to my mind when discussing the value of RBIs.

Sammy Sosa Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Yes, he had many RBIs in the 5-year stretch from 98-02, but not relative to the number of homeruns hit. I mean seriously, look at 2002. he hit 49 homeruns, and only had 108 RBIs. Seriously, that is mind boggling. Just further proves the point that Ryan T. made - it all depends on your teammates, not just you. If they aren't on base, you cannot knock them in. Think about that. If Sosa hit 40 HRs that year - a fairly big number - he would not have had 100 RBIs ...

Wins = runs = RBIs = not a valid way to judge a player's performance. Basically, if you lead the league in runs, RBIs, or wins, you likely performed very well. However, if you did not have large totals in those categories, it does not mean you performed worse.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:28 PM   #696 (permalink)
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I'm giving my opinion, if I'm a manager, I want a guy that hits a lot of runs in
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:29 PM   #697 (permalink)
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I'm giving my opinion, if I'm a manager, I want a guy that hits a lot of runs in
Really? After 20+ pages, this is what this thread is going to turn into now?
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:30 PM   #698 (permalink)
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Clutch hitting is pretty much a myth. A good hitter is a good hitter.
Definitely not a myth, there's a lot more nerves that come into play. Let me ask you guys (this isn't a knock on anybody FYI) did you guys ever play baseball?
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:31 PM   #699 (permalink)
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Definitely not a myth, there's a lot more nerves that come into play. Let me ask you guys (this isn't a knock on anybody FYI) did you guys ever play baseball?
I've played for 7 years. It's definitely nerve wracking when you're at bat in a big game.
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:32 PM   #700 (permalink)
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Really? After 20+ pages, this is what this thread is going to turn into now?
Thank you.
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