NL CY YOUNG

[ChaseSeib]

Originally Posted by MetDude

Gio has 2 more losses then Dickey
Dont feel like looking up the winning % for you
but
Advantage Dickey!

Great point

[btimm]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

Haha I'm all for dickey, but the goal in baseball is to win.....

Last I checked, the pitcher doesn't have a 100% impact on whether the game is won or lost for a multitude of reasons. Good point though.

[ChaseSeib]

Originally Posted by btimm

Last I checked, the pitcher doesn't have a 100% impact on whether the game is won or lost for a multitude of reasons. Good point though.

Yeah Im aware, but the pitcher is (IMO) the most Important player on the field. And the outcome of the game relies heavily on how the pitcher performs. And w-l is a very important stat to me. The voters will look at the "hard luck losses". But the amount of W's a pitcher produces is a huge part of winning a cy young, along with a great era.

[Gio47]

I have been saying I have thought Dickey was slightly ahead this whole time but on a very serious non-homer note, Gio is now ahead in the Cy Young race in my mind.

Gio getting to 20 wins was huge, first in MLB's to do so. He's the horse on his team and he has led them to first place not only in the Natonal League but they have the best record in all of MLB. Gio has done a great job getting his ERA down, he's only 0.16 behind Dickey, only 8 k's behind as well. Gio will get over the 200 inning mark and probably end up with 21 wins. Currently, he is now ahead in the ESPN Cy Young Predictor as well which more often that not has been right. I really think he will win this years Cy Young.

[Gio47]

Also I've been saying this all along, the names Johnny Cueto, Matt Cain, Kyle Lohse and Aroldis Chapman are OUT of the Cy Young race. Mentioning these people is a waste of time unless you are talking about finishing 3-5th in voting.

[Gio47]

Originally Posted by MetDude

and CY predictor has dickey in the lead.
2012 MLB Baseball Cy Young Predictor - Major League Baseball - ESPN

You may want to go check out that Cy Young predictor again.

[MetDude]

Originally Posted by Gio47

You may want to go check out that Cy Young predictor again.

Its updated since last night eh ?

Thanks for a factual point.

[CardsFan7]

Gio Gonzalez should win the award.

[ChaseSeib]

Can't wait to see how many views this has by the announcement of the award

[btimm]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

Yeah Im aware, but the pitcher is (IMO) the most Important player on the field. And the outcome of the game relies heavily on how the pitcher performs. And w-l is a very important stat to me. The voters will look at the "hard luck losses". But the amount of W's a pitcher produces is a huge part of winning a cy young, along with a great era.

Good point. Check out Felix's stats. Outside of his 2009 season, he would be a staggering 9 games over .500 for his entire career. Or just check out seasons:

2008: 9-11, 3.45 ERA
2010: 13-12, 2.27 ERA
2011: 14-14, 3.47 ERA
2012: 13-8, 2.85 ERA

He must just be marginal then, since he can't win very often.

Wins are a completely and utterly useless statistic to use to judge a pitcher.

[ChaseSeib]

Originally Posted by btimm

Good point. Check out Felix's stats. Outside of his 2009 season, he would be a staggering 9 games over .500 for his entire career. Or just check out seasons:

2008: 9-11, 3.45 ERA
2010: 13-12, 2.27 ERA
2011: 14-14, 3.47 ERA
2012: 13-8, 2.85 ERA

He must just be marginal then, since he can't win very often.

Wins are a completely and utterly useless statistic to use to judge a pitcher.

You must have just ran by the "the voters will check hard luck losses". Felix has gotten many of those.

[Sqeeshy]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

You must have just ran by the "the voters will check hard luck losses". Felix has gotten many of those.

No, he has got many of the "My team sucks and can't give me run support to save my life" losses. Wins are to pitchers, as RBI are to hitters. Useless.

[ChaseSeib]

Originally Posted by Sqeeshy

No, he has got many of the "My team sucks and can't give me run support to save my life" losses. Wins are to pitchers, as RBI are to hitters. Useless.

okay I i can see your point for wins not being important, but RBI's?!? You must be crazy. Runs win ball games

[babyfaceposey]

I think Dickey should win it, but would like to see Gio win it.

[JohnAndrew]

Very curious to see what Kershaw does tonight...

[Ryan T.]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

okay I i can see your point for wins not being important, but RBI's?!? You must be crazy. Runs win ball games

...and they depend almost entirely on how well your teammates get on base in front of you.

I don't know how many times we can go through this.

[ChaseSeib]

Originally Posted by Ryan T.

...and they depend almost entirely on how well your teammates get on base in front of you.

I don't know how many times we can go through this.

It still takes clutch hitting to get them in, the mindset of a hitter changes when you have guys On second and third compared to nobody on.

[Ryan T.]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

It still takes clutch hitting to get them in, the mindset of a hitter changes when you have guys On second and third compared to nobody on.

Clutch hitting is pretty much a myth. A good hitter is a good hitter.

[a-train10]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

It still takes clutch hitting to get them in, the mindset of a hitter changes when you have guys On second and third compared to nobody on.

So your telling me one guy hits a deep fly ball to left for an out. The next guy hits that same fly ball, but he gets an RBI because someone got on in front of him.

That makes player 2 better?

[btimm]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

okay I i can see your point for wins not being important, but RBI's?!? You must be crazy. Runs win ball games

I can't tell if you are being serious or if you are just pulling people's legs here.

I give you Sammy Sosa, the first player that came to my mind when discussing the value of RBIs.

Sammy Sosa Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

Yes, he had many RBIs in the 5-year stretch from 98-02, but not relative to the number of homeruns hit. I mean seriously, look at 2002. he hit 49 homeruns, and only had 108 RBIs. Seriously, that is mind boggling. Just further proves the point that Ryan T. made - it all depends on your teammates, not just you. If they aren't on base, you cannot knock them in. Think about that. If Sosa hit 40 HRs that year - a fairly big number - he would not have had 100 RBIs ...

Wins = runs = RBIs = not a valid way to judge a player's performance. Basically, if you lead the league in runs, RBIs, or wins, you likely performed very well. However, if you did not have large totals in those categories, it does not mean you performed worse.

[ChaseSeib]

I'm giving my opinion, if I'm a manager, I want a guy that hits a lot of runs in

[a-train10]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

I'm giving my opinion, if I'm a manager, I want a guy that hits a lot of runs in

Really? After 20+ pages, this is what this thread is going to turn into now?

[ChaseSeib]

Originally Posted by Ryan T.

Clutch hitting is pretty much a myth. A good hitter is a good hitter.

Definitely not a myth, there's a lot more nerves that come into play. Let me ask you guys (this isn't a knock on anybody FYI) did you guys ever play baseball?

[Homerun]

Originally Posted by ChaseSeiberlich

Definitely not a myth, there's a lot more nerves that come into play. Let me ask you guys (this isn't a knock on anybody FYI) did you guys ever play baseball?

I've played for 7 years. It's definitely nerve wracking when you're at bat in a big game.

[JohnAndrew]

Originally Posted by a-train10

Really? After 20+ pages, this is what this thread is going to turn into now?

Thank you.