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Old 09-24-2012, 03:21 PM   #751 (permalink)
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lol I already offered you a wager that you could have accepted that would have been +EV for you according to your beliefs and you declined. Stop mentioning bets please, thanks.

I said Gio is 50/50 to win, I didn't say he was a lock. You offered me a bet that has great odds that you aren't giving me at EV which would be stupid on my part to take.

YOU are mentioning Kershaw, you even said he had a possibility of winning. If you think he is so good PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put your money where your mouth is. I never said Dickey couldn't win, I said KERSHAW couldn't win and won't win and won't finish in the top 2 maybe even 3. When you wanna man up to your theory that he will finish top 2 please let me know. If Gio is such a distant 3rd then you should have no problem.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:22 PM   #752 (permalink)
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1: Again, I really don't care what you or anyone else has to say at this point, its always something.

2: Now he moved into top 5 in ERA, its he doesn't have enough innings, can't win you people over.

3: Hitters have the lowest average against him per 9 but your right had he gone another inning in his starts he would have a much higher ERA. Good one.
4: I talk to people who have an impact on this decision and know more than any of us do.

Put your money where your mouth is and let's bet WHO FINISHES HIGHER, Gio or Kershaw. If your so confident please accept my offer. Thanks.
Bolded 1: Then stop commenting?

Bolded 2: A pitcher with a lower ERA, comparable K rate, lower WHIP that pitches deeper into games has flat out pitched better than Gio. Sorry, you literally have no valid argument counter to this.

Bolded 3: Yes Gio has the lowest batting average against ... .204 to Kershaw's .214. Did you check OBP? Just curious. Kershaw is #2 at .273, Gio is 5 at .281. And yes, pitching deeper into games when a pitcher is fatigued flat out does have a substantial impact on ERA. This is not even a debatable issue tbh, it is flat out the truth.

Bolded 4: I am discussing who should win the Cy Young, not who will. Voters are not the most intelligent people in the world.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:26 PM   #753 (permalink)
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I said Gio is 50/50 to win, I didn't say he was a lock. You offered me a bet that has great odds that you aren't giving me at EV which would be stupid on my part to take.

YOU are mentioning Kershaw, you even said he had a possibility of winning. If you think he is so good PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put your money where your mouth is. I never said Dickey couldn't win, I said KERSHAW couldn't win and won't win and won't finish in the top 2 maybe even 3. When you wanna man up to your theory that he will finish top 2 please let me know.
YOU said Gio was 50/50 to win. I said fine take Gio and I take the field. If you think Gio is 50/50 to win, it follows that you think he has - hold up - a 50% chance of winning, period. Not against Dickey, but against everyone. You think it is a two-horse race and that Gio has a 50/50 chance. Common sense shows that means you ALSO think it is 50/50 that Gio would win against ALL pitchers. I offered you that bet, you declined, and it is a neutral EV bet.

And I never said Kershaw WILL win; I said I think Kershaw SHOULD win. That's a huge difference. Voters are stupid, they will see Gio's pointless 20 wins and see that Kershaw is hurt and may not even pitch again this year. But the reality is that Kershaw was a better pitcher this year than Gio. Find stats to the contrary that isn't average or win-loss record, since I already debunked those stats.

Kershaw is better this year, was better last year, and will always be better than Gio. Hands down.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:29 PM   #754 (permalink)
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Bolded 1: Then stop commenting?

Bolded 2: A pitcher with a lower ERA, comparable K rate, lower WHIP that pitches deeper into games has flat out pitched better than Gio. Sorry, you literally have no valid argument counter to this.

Bolded 3: Yes Gio has the lowest batting average against ... .204 to Kershaw's .214. Did you check OBP? Just curious. Kershaw is #2 at .273, Gio is 5 at .281. And yes, pitching deeper into games when a pitcher is fatigued flat out does have a substantial impact on ERA. This is not even a debatable issue tbh, it is flat out the truth.

Bolded 4: I am discussing who should win the Cy Young, not who will. Voters are not the most intelligent people in the world.

So basically you are saying if Gio wins it he doesn't deserve it? WOW, nice man. Do yourself a favor and stop hating so hard bud, its bad for your health.

Don't worry I'll be sure he sends you and Kershaw a nice auto'd ball from the World Series that says "Cy Young/World Series Champ" on it
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:32 PM   #755 (permalink)
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YOU said Gio was 50/50 to win. I said fine take Gio and I take the field. If you think Gio is 50/50 to win, it follows that you think he has - hold up - a 50% chance of winning, period. Not against Dickey, but against everyone. You think it is a two-horse race and that Gio has a 50/50 chance. Common sense shows that means you ALSO think it is 50/50 that Gio would win against ALL pitchers. I offered you that bet, you declined, and it is a neutral EV bet.

And I never said Kershaw WILL win; I said I think Kershaw SHOULD win. That's a huge difference. Voters are stupid, they will see Gio's pointless 20 wins and see that Kershaw is hurt and may not even pitch again this year. But the reality is that Kershaw was a better pitcher this year than Gio. Find stats to the contrary that isn't average or win-loss record, since I already debunked those stats.

Kershaw is better this year, was better last year, and will always be better than Gio. Hands down.


Damn man, those are some tough words.. I can set you up on a date with Clayton if you'd like? At least get you some digits?


Your right I did say Gio was 50/50. 50% Gio, 50% Dickey. Nobody else is winning this award.

And ya your right, pointless 20 wins, 1st since 1953 for the best team in the MLB and leading his team into the playoffs while Kershaw and the Dodgers $85 billion dollar salary goes home.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:34 PM   #756 (permalink)
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So basically you are saying if Gio wins it he doesn't deserve it? WOW, nice man. Do yourself a favor and stop hating so hard bud, its bad for your health.

Don't worry I'll be sure he sends you and Kershaw a nice auto'd ball from the World Series that says "Cy Young/World Series Champ" on it
Haha OH SH!T!!!!!! Honestly, if my Yankees are lucky enough to squeak into the Series, I want no part of the Nationals...there are just too many good pitchers.

The only team I might want to see less is the Braves...let's hope that Medlen finally comes undone in the wildcard play-in game
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:36 PM   #757 (permalink)
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Haha OH SH!T!!!!!! Honestly, if my Yankees are lucky enough to squeak into the Series, I want no part of the Nationals...there are just too many good pitchers.

The only team I might want to see less is the Braves...let's hope that Medlen finally comes undone in the wildcard play-in game


JA, I really will send it lol.. Maybe give Clayton his at next years ASG. If you want one too just let me know, I got you! (seriously though lol)



P.S. - I wanted Gio to be a Yankee but it didn't pan out that way. I would love to see Robbie, Jeter and the Yanks in the WS though, epic battle.
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:40 PM   #758 (permalink)
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JA, I really will send it lol.. Maybe give Clayton his at next years ASG. If you want one too just let me know, I got you! (seriously though lol)



P.S. - I wanted Gio to be a Yankee but it didn't pan out that way. I would love to see Robbie, Jeter and the Yanks in the WS though, epic battle.
Man, what I would do to have Gio in pinstripes...we really could've used him about a month ago as our division lead dwindled from the 10-game high-water mark
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:41 PM   #759 (permalink)
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The 15 Greatest 1-2 Pitching Combos in MLB History | Bleacher Report


Look who's featured on that list already!
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:52 PM   #760 (permalink)
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Damn man, those are some tough words.. I can set you up on a date with Clayton if you'd like? At least get you some digits?

Your right I did say Gio was 50/50. 50% Gio, 50% Dickey. Nobody else is winning this award.

And ya your right, pointless 20 wins, 1st since 1953 for the best team in the MLB and leading his team into the playoffs while Kershaw and the Dodgers $85 billion dollar salary goes home.
You're letting your family ties cloud your vision bud. I don't have a crush on Kershaw, I just simply realize he is better than Gio and has shown it this year. You have YET to show any reason why Gio should finish ahead of Kershaw, I am still waiting.

Maybe it's the ERA ... oh
Maybe it's the WHIP ... oh
Maybe it's the ability to consistently go deep into games ... oh

And if wins are so important when debating the merits of a pitcher's performance, then why did it not matter when Felix won the award? Is Gio better than Felix too? LMFAO
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #761 (permalink)
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You're letting your family ties cloud your vision bud. I don't have a crush on Kershaw, I just simply realize he is better than Gio and has shown it this year. You have YET to show any reason why Gio should finish ahead of Kershaw, I am still waiting.

Maybe it's the ERA ... oh
Maybe it's the WHIP ... oh
Maybe it's the ability to consistently go deep into games ... oh

And if wins are so important when debating the merits of a pitcher's performance, then why did it not matter when Felix won the award? Is Gio better than Felix too? LMFAO

ERA, Whip, Go deeper in games.. LOL ok dude your right Gio sucks.

Have fun watching your buddy Kershaw coming in 4th in voting.


P.S. - Take a look at that link I posted up there.. Pretty good company huh?
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:56 PM   #762 (permalink)
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Awww hell, not the Bleacher Report!!

In all seriousness though...Strasburg-Gonzalez-Zimmerman is probably one of the most devastating 1-2-3 rotation punches since Smoltz-Maddux-Glavine. Halladay-Lee-Hamels is nice but Doc is getting up there in age.

The Nats are gonna be stupid good as long as those three guys are anchoring the pitching staff.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:08 PM   #763 (permalink)
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Like the way this is looking from ESPN : Formula tabs Dickey as Cy Young favorite - Mets Blog - ESPN New York

2012 Cy Young Predictor - NL
RK PLAYER TEAM CYP G GS IP ER K SV SHO W-L ERA VB
1 R.A. Dickey NYM 179.6 32 31 220.0 65 209 0 3 19-6 2.66 0
2 Gio Gonzalez WSH 177.6 31 31 193.1 61 201 0 1 20-8 2.84 9
3 Johnny Cueto CIN 164.0 31 31 203.0 64 159 0 0 18-9 2.84 12
4 Matt Cain SF 158.6 30 30 207.1 66 185 0 2 15-5 2.86 12
5 Aroldis Chapman CIN 155.6 65 0 68.2 12 119 35 0 5-5 1.57 12
6 Kyle Lohse STL 152.1 32 32 205.0 63 134 0 0 16-3 2.77 0
7 Craig Kimbrel ATL 144.3 58 0 58.1 7 106 39 0 2-1 1.08 3
8 Madison Bumgarner SF 144.1 31 31 204.1 74 187 0 1 16-10 3.26 12
9 Cole Hamels PHI 140.8 29 29 203.1 69 202 0 2 15-6 3.05 0
10 Jason Motte STL 137.4 64 0 69.1 22 83 40 0 4-5 2.86 0
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:12 PM   #764 (permalink)
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ERA, Whip, Go deeper in games.. LOL ok dude your right Gio sucks.

Have fun watching your buddy Kershaw coming in 4th in voting.

P.S. - Take a look at that link I posted up there.. Pretty good company huh?
I never said Gio sucks, but you still have yet to show a legitimate reason supporting why Gio should win the award. Nice use of sarcastic ignorance to deflect though.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:19 PM   #765 (permalink)
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Like the way this is looking from ESPN : Formula tabs Dickey as Cy Young favorite - Mets Blog - ESPN New York

2012 Cy Young Predictor - NL
RK PLAYER TEAM CYP G GS IP ER K SV SHO W-L ERA VB
1 R.A. Dickey NYM 179.6 32 31 220.0 65 209 0 3 19-6 2.66 0
2 Gio Gonzalez WSH 177.6 31 31 193.1 61 201 0 1 20-8 2.84 9
3 Johnny Cueto CIN 164.0 31 31 203.0 64 159 0 0 18-9 2.84 12
4 Matt Cain SF 158.6 30 30 207.1 66 185 0 2 15-5 2.86 12
5 Aroldis Chapman CIN 155.6 65 0 68.2 12 119 35 0 5-5 1.57 12
6 Kyle Lohse STL 152.1 32 32 205.0 63 134 0 0 16-3 2.77 0
7 Craig Kimbrel ATL 144.3 58 0 58.1 7 106 39 0 2-1 1.08 3
8 Madison Bumgarner SF 144.1 31 31 204.1 74 187 0 1 16-10 3.26 12
9 Cole Hamels PHI 140.8 29 29 203.1 69 202 0 2 15-6 3.05 0
10 Jason Motte STL 137.4 64 0 69.1 22 83 40 0 4-5 2.86 0
I will let you guess who #2 would be if you plugged in Gio's W-L record with Kershaw's stats. And if you include the Victory Bonus, I will let you guess who #1 would be. Because we all know that the pitchers have such an impact on how many runs their teams score for them.

I maintain the way it should be is Dickey, Kershaw, Gio.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:21 PM   #766 (permalink)
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lol i didnt post that to give anyone ammo against the other person FYI!! lol
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #767 (permalink)
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lol i didnt post that to give anyone ammo against the other person FYI!! lol
LOL hey man, do you listen to Boomer and Carton on the FAN? Whenever I hear anything about Dickey, I always play this back in my head:



I'm still trying to find a HQ of the whole song, LOL!
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:34 PM   #768 (permalink)
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haha good Lord. I can only hear my last name so many times.. That's too much hahah
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:40 PM   #769 (permalink)
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haha good Lord. I can only hear my last name so many times.. That's too much hahah
There's also this gem from the Mad Dog...

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Old 09-24-2012, 04:46 PM   #770 (permalink)
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This Cy Young Predictor on ESPN sucks. One day it has Gio in the lead. The next day, neither Gio or Dickey pitched and somehow Dickey jumped Gio now.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #771 (permalink)
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wow, 31 pages. when does this thing get announced so we can put this thread to bed?

even after it gets announced, i am sure there will be a heated debate. of course, in that debate, there will be more black and white, and a whole lot less gray.

good luck to all the pitchers in their final regular season games. i'm gonna miss baseball in a 5 weeks.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:54 PM   #772 (permalink)
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This Cy Young Predictor on ESPN sucks. One day it has Gio in the lead. The next day, neither Gio or Dickey pitched and somehow Dickey jumped Gio now.
There's that "victory bonus" working its magic again LOL
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:54 PM   #773 (permalink)
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My Prediction: Roy Halladay

Reason: I've been living under a rock
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:54 PM   #774 (permalink)
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wow, 31 pages. when does this thing get announced so we can put this thread to bed?
No way. It's my intention to make sure this stays around until NEXT year's awards
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Old 09-24-2012, 05:23 PM   #775 (permalink)
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This Cy Young Predictor on ESPN sucks. One day it has Gio in the lead. The next day, neither Gio or Dickey pitched and somehow Dickey jumped Gio now.
Relax dude. Its either going to be Dickey or Gio... Everyone knows that. Of course you are going to say Gio will win. Of course I am going to say Dickey is going to win. We are biased on the matter therefore what we say, no matter how much we throw out stats and/or facts, isnt valid. Just sit back and enjoy the last two starts and quit combating everyone that says Gio is going to lose .. You should be used to people bashing on Gio since he hasn't always been a star.. I've been a fan of RA since when he was REALLY REALLY bad so the crap that people talk about RA doesn't bother me because his past three years (including this one) have been amazing, same as Gio.. Smile and be happy he is even considered .
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