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Old 09-27-2012, 12:47 AM   #801 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pmannings#1fan View Post
Yea he sure did do that. I think he has the most wins though in the NL still.
He's tied with Dickey at 19 and they're one behind Gio at 20. Cueto should really be at 20 or 21 if he didn't have that disastrous string of starts a few weeks back...he's showing that he might be righting the ship, but it might be too little, too late.
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:50 AM   #802 (permalink)
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Uhhh...for a closer, it's pretty damn important.

Gagne pitched in 77 games in 2003. Kimbrel is not coming close to that -- sorry.
kimbrel's other numbers > gagne that year
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Old 09-27-2012, 12:57 AM   #803 (permalink)
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kimbrel's other numbers > gagne that year
That's nice. Kimbrel has pitched 27% less innings.
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Old 09-27-2012, 01:45 AM   #804 (permalink)
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That's nice. Kimbrel has pitched 27% less innings.
because percentages are stats?
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:20 AM   #805 (permalink)
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because percentages are stats?
Let me make this easy for you:

Kimbrel
1.04 ERA
0.66 WHIP
111 Ks (16.6 K/9)
40/43 in save opportunities
60.1 IP

Gagne
1.20 ERA
0.69 WHIP
137 Ks (15.0 K/9)
55/55 in save opportunities
82.1 IP

So in 2012 Kimbrel, I see a guy who has marginally better ratios than 2003 Gagne, who saved (because it's a closer's job to save games, ya know) 15 more games for the Dodgers than Kimbrel has for the Braves this year. That's...a lot.

Also, the only other vote-getters in 2003 were Jason Schmidt (17-5, 2.34 in 207.1 IP), Mark Prior (18-6, 2.43 in 211.1 IP) and Russ Ortiz (21-7, 3.81 in 212.1 IP)...not exactly tough competition and ESPECIALLY when you consider that the only time a guy with less than 220 IP has won the award since Gagne won was Clemens in 2004 (214.1).

Look, Kimbrel is having a great season...I've read the numbers about his "unhittability" and its all very impressive. I just don't see a guy with less than 70 innings pitched winning the thing.

Percentages are nice. In a 162-game season, the Braves will have played approximately 1,458 innings (give or take a few for extra innings/rainouts). If Kimbrel finishes the season with 70 innings pitched (he won't), he'll have pitched 4.8% of his team's innings. By contrast, if R.A. Dickey finishes the season with over 230 innings (he will), he'll have pitched 15.8% of his team's innings.

Is it still a mystery why starters get first look for this award? Honestly, I'd give it to Medlen before I give it to Kimbrel. Twice as many innings (and counting) and practically as dominant. Craig is having a great year, but there are just too many great starting pitcher candidates for him to take home the award.
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Old 09-27-2012, 08:34 AM   #806 (permalink)
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You can't discount Kershaw now that he is making likely his final two starts of the year. Because of the media hype, I doubt he will win it, but he certainly should finish higher than Gio.

How it should be:
Dickey
Kershaw
Gonzalez

How it will be:
Dickey
Gonzalez
Kershaw
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #807 (permalink)
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You can't discount Kershaw now that he is making likely his final two starts of the year. Because of the media hype, I doubt he will win it, but he certainly should finish higher than Gio.

How it should be:
Dickey
Kershaw
Gonzalez

How it will be:
Dickey
Gonzalez
Kershaw
I think Clayton can still make a good case for himself if he guns for a decisive victory in the ERA standings. If he goes 8 shutout frames in these last two starts, he could end up with a sub-2.50. This is obviously highly unlikely if he continues to struggle with his command, but there is still room for him to distance himself. He has Colorado at home tomorrow (not exactly scary) and San Francisco at home on October 3rd (potentially scary: do the Giants send out the big dogs if L.A. is still in contention at that point or do they let them kick back and relax for Game 162?).

Dickey ought to run away with the league lead in innings pitched and I suppose Clayton should have no trouble jumping Cain in that category seeing that Matt only has one start left. The "strikeout race" will come down to the wire.

So yeah...taking the ERA crown is probably Kershaw's best shot at having a serious impact on the voting. If everyone else finishes strong, it'll make that task even tougher.

On a related note...how about Matt Cain? All of a sudden, the guy is 4th in ERA, 2nd in WHIP, 2nd in IP and has an outside shot at cracking 200 strikeouts. Add in the perfect game and you've got a nice little resume going there...from a sabermetric perspective, his WAR could stand to improve a little bit (currently at 10th in the NL using the bbref/ESPN formula) and the level of run support he gets (also 10th in the NL) won't help him much, either...but one more solid start and this guy definitely has a chance to mix it up a bit.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:28 AM   #808 (permalink)
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Yeah, as I said, I do not think he will end up winning the award. If Clayton finishes strong though, it is the worst thing for these Gio lovers - as he will steal some votes away from Gio.
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Old 09-27-2012, 11:46 AM   #809 (permalink)
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I said it a few weeks ago and I still think it's true...the more legitimate candidates there are in the field, the better Dickey's chances are at winning. Dickey is the only guy who is top 3 in every single major standard and sabermetric category (1st in ERA and IP, 2nd in Ws and Ks, 3rd in WAR and WHIP). Dickey is perhaps the only guy who will be a top 3 choice on EVERY ballot (in all likelihood, he will probably be top 2 on most). If anyone is going to catch him, they're going to need those 3rd, 4th and 5th place votes. But as long as guys like Kershaw, Cain, Medlen and Kimbrel are performing on a high level, they're going to steal those votes from the other top tier candidates and make it increasingly difficult to catch Dickey.
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:15 PM   #810 (permalink)
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RA RA RA!!!! Here we go! Play ball!
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:18 PM   #811 (permalink)
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RA RA RA!!!! Here we go! Play ball!
Alright! Let's get #20 now!
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:36 PM   #812 (permalink)
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sh!tty defense pi$ses me off....
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Old 09-27-2012, 02:44 PM   #813 (permalink)
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sh!tty defense pi$ses me off....
Just looking at a box score, but doesn't look like you can blame the first two hits on defense ... it's alright, Davis homers and gets one back
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:09 PM   #814 (permalink)
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Well it would have been tied (until the homer just now) if Thole would of moved over because Wright had the runner at home beat by 30ft....
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:10 PM   #815 (permalink)
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i'm not going to read through 33 pages, but has anyone considered Kris Medlen!?
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:10 PM   #816 (permalink)
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lol he's been brought up a couple times
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #817 (permalink)
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Rod #@#@#@#@ing Barajas!
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:14 PM   #818 (permalink)
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i'm not going to read through 33 pages, but has anyone considered Kris Medlen!?
I think you could make a pretty good case for Medlen...I think the biggest thing that'll be held against him is his lack of innings pitched, but no other starting pitcher has been remotely as dominating as he has. I think there's a very good chance he'll crack the top 5 when all's said and done.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:14 PM   #819 (permalink)
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hahahahaha yeah.. oh well. lol still plenty of time.
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:18 PM   #820 (permalink)
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Uh oh! R.A. Dickey is in R.A T.R.O.U.B.L.E
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:19 PM   #821 (permalink)
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Uh oh! R.A. Dickey is in R.A T.R.O.U.B.L.E
Gio's gotta make a strong move tonight!
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:22 PM   #822 (permalink)
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Mets jsut scored 3-2 now.. RA is fine... still his award to lose if he doesnt get a win.. Gio will get rocked tonight

Baxter got robbed of a homer by Snider earlier in the game.. Amazing catch
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #823 (permalink)
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Man the NL guys are lucky Josh Beckett didn't get traded earlier or he would be the leader. /sarcasm
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:28 PM   #824 (permalink)
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7Ks and counting ooppps sorry make that 8 Ks Oh wait!!! 9Ks struck out the side!
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Old 09-27-2012, 03:33 PM   #825 (permalink)
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Gio's gotta make a strong move tonight!

I'm in Philly with him.. He's focused, wants it bad. 7 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 6 Ks.. Expect that stat line
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