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Old 10-06-2012, 09:11 PM   #1026 (permalink)
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Why is all the onus put on the offense. Lets say a team puts up 5 runs and the pitcher allows 6, then obviously the pitcher is responsible for the loss, hence this stat matters. So, lets say said pitcher instead keeps the opposing team to 4 runs, well, he gets the win. Point is, the pitcher mattered i this game hence he gets a win. So if a team puts up only 2 runs then why is all the wieght put on them to score more? In this case its the pitchers job to keep the opposing team to 1 or less runs. I mean who determines how many runs an offense should score to make a win relevant or not? Nobody does. A pitchers win count is definatly a reflection of performance. The only time where I will buy off on the fact that wins are pointless is if the offense puts up zero's, then theres not much a pitcher can do in that case.
So if a pitcher gets a win, that is a reflection I performance? So when a pitcher takes the loss, pitching 8 innings of 2-run ball, that is a lesser performance than a pitcher who goes 5 innings and gives up 5 runs, but still got the win? Do you see why your logic is flawed?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:15 PM   #1027 (permalink)
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So if a pitcher gets a win, that is a reflection I performance? So when a pitcher takes the loss, pitching 8 innings of 2-run ball, that is a lesser performance than a pitcher who goes 5 innings and gives up 5 runs, but still got the win? Do you see why your logic is flawed?
I actually see both sides. I bam all for sabermetrics, I believe some of the new measurment data is extremely relevant. I also believe that wins still reflect performance as well. Call me crazy but do you think there just might be more than one possible effective measuremnt of pitching performance or are you just all in on the new stuff and closed minded to everything else?
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:21 PM   #1028 (permalink)
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I actually see both sides. I bam all for sabermetrics, I believe some of the new measurment data is extremely relevant. I also believe that wins still reflect performance as well. Call me crazy but do you think there just might be more than one possible effective measuremnt of pitching performance or are you just all in on the new stuff and closed minded to everything else?
Go take a look at what Derek Holland did on September 30th and you'll see exactly why a W doesn't tell the whole story.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:29 PM   #1029 (permalink)
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Go take a look at what Derek Holland did on September 30th and you'll see exactly why a W doesn't tell the whole story.
Ivan Nova really exemplifies why you shouldn't just look at Wins and Losses. Gives up 5 something per 9, but gets 6 plus in run support every game. Then the NY papers call him SUPERNOVA the next day.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:29 PM   #1030 (permalink)
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I have yet to see Swingman or Gio47 dispute this. Prove to me that 6 wins is an accurate reflection of the way Lee pitched this year. When you admit you cannot do so, then please also admit that wins are meaningless when evaluating pitchers.

Regardless of what you or I think it's not gonna change the fact that wins are important in the eyes of people who are involved with the MLB if not it would not be tracked or taken into account for any awards, etc. You can stop ranting as to why you think they are so unimportant as no one really cares about any of our opinions. I am on my way to STL to a playoff game that the 21 game winner of the Washington Nationals is starting in tomorrow. Clayton Kershaw and RA Dickey will be home watching because their teams could not get enough WINS in the regular season to play on.
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:33 PM   #1031 (permalink)
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Ivan Nova really exemplifies why you shouldn't just look at Wins and Losses. Gives up 5 something per 9, but gets 6 plus in run support every game. Then the NY papers call him SUPERNOVA the next day.
Yup, Phil Hughes in 2010 was another great example of this.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:26 PM   #1032 (permalink)
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Regardless of what you or I think it's not gonna change the fact that wins are important in the eyes of people who are involved with the MLB if not it would not be tracked or taken into account for any awards, etc. You can stop ranting as to why you think they are so unimportant as no one really cares about any of our opinions. I am on my way to STL to a playoff game that the 21 game winner of the Washington Nationals is starting in tomorrow. Clayton Kershaw and RA Dickey will be home watching because their teams could not get enough WINS in the regular season to play on.
It's posts like this that you make that just reek or arrogance. You are literally the sole reason Gio has one less fan now. Hope he gets shelled tomorrow bud!

Reality: He STILL cannot prove why he thinks wins is a legitimate measure, other than Gio has 21. No bias at all, lol. Gotta love willing blindness.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:47 PM   #1033 (permalink)
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It's posts like this that you make that just reek or arrogance. You are literally the sole reason Gio has one less fan now. Hope he gets shelled tomorrow bud!

Reality: He STILL cannot prove why he thinks wins is a legitimate measure, other than Gio has 21. No bias at all, lol. Gotta love willing blindness.

Hating is bad for your health my friend, don't worry i will get you that WS champ/WS MVP/Cy young/warren Spahn winner quad auto ball for you after the season . BTW I Couldn't care less who you root for bud. You've made it clear you are just as biased to Kershaw as I am to Gio. Like I've said before, sorry to break it to you but he's not finishing ahead of Gio or Dickey in this race. But go and throw out whatever stat you have about Kershaw. Guess what... IT DOESN'T MATTER
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:55 PM   #1034 (permalink)
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At this point, my head says Kershaw, but my heart tells me Dickey.

My fat tells me Broxton.
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:59 PM   #1035 (permalink)
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I am not at all bias towards Kershaw, I simply think he has pitched better and have legitimate arguments to back my claim. I am sorry you choose to ignore logic. ERA leader, ridiculous WHIP, 1 K off league lead. I have no blood ties to Kershaw, nor am I a Dodgers fan, I just can appreciate greatness and elite pitching.
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:36 PM   #1036 (permalink)
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If only they voted after the postseason....7 walks in 5 innings...ridiculous
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Old 10-07-2012, 05:37 PM   #1037 (permalink)
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Not to mention throwing 110 pitches in 5 innings
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:16 PM   #1038 (permalink)
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Not to mention throwing 110 pitches in 5 innings

Umpires were squeezing him hard today. If you watched the game on tv and didn't realize that, I would suggest getting a new TV set. Regardless, he only gave up 1 hit and the Nats got the win. He will pitch again c
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:23 PM   #1039 (permalink)
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Umpires were squeezing him hard today. If you watched the game on tv and didn't realize that, I would suggest getting a new TV set. Regardless, he only gave up 1 hit and the Nats got the win. He will pitch again c
Does it matter that they were squeezing him? 7 walks is 7 walks. If it looked like he pitched good today, I would suggest getting a new tv
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:57 PM   #1040 (permalink)
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Umpires were squeezing him hard today. If you watched the game on tv and didn't realize that, I would suggest getting a new TV set. Regardless, he only gave up 1 hit and the Nats got the win. He will pitch again c
Ha, I knew you were going to say this, nice excuse.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:03 PM   #1041 (permalink)
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Ha, I knew you were going to say this, nice excuse.
I hate it when people can't admit when they're wrong
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #1042 (permalink)
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It shouldn't take more than 2 walks to figure out the umpires zone for god sakes. He and the Nats got incredibly lucky the Cards didn't capitalize on all those baserunners.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:28 PM   #1043 (permalink)
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I hate it when people can't admit when they're wrong

Ok dude your right. He pitched terribly and he sucks.. Is that what you wanna hear? Nats got the W and honestly that's all that matters at this point. Last I checked there is no NLDS MVP he needs to be competing for. See you in the World Series.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:30 PM   #1044 (permalink)
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Ok dude your right. He pitched terribly and he sucks.. Is that what you wanna hear? Nats got the W and honestly that's all that matters at this point. Last I checked there is no NLDS MVP he needs to be competing for. See you in the World Series.
I'm actually pulling for the nats to get to the series, and I never said gio sucks, I just don't see how you can say he pitched well TODAY. I'm not talking about the season, he had a hell of a season, I'm talking about today.
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Old 10-07-2012, 11:49 PM   #1045 (permalink)
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I'm actually pulling for the nats to get to the series, and I never said gio sucks, I just don't see how you can say he pitched well TODAY. I'm not talking about the season, he had a hell of a season, I'm talking about today.

I never said he pitched well. He has a rough game, I was at the game and got a feel for what was going on. Ump was not consistent with his strike zone and both teams complained after about some calls.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:15 AM   #1046 (permalink)
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Yeah cause teams won't complain if the ump is doing a good job right? lolz
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:18 PM   #1047 (permalink)
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Gotta bump this up. Gio will show why he's the best pitcher in baseball tonight! Go NATS!
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:21 PM   #1048 (permalink)
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go nats because F the cards.

infield fly my ass!

kimbrel for cy!
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:23 PM   #1049 (permalink)
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Gotta bump this up. Gio will show why he's the best pitcher in baseball tonight! Go NATS!
Perhaps you've heard of Clayton Kershaw and Justin Verlander?
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Old 10-12-2012, 07:29 PM   #1050 (permalink)
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Oh baby, I almost forgot about this thread!
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