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Old 10-02-2012, 11:37 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Broke down and bought a new AIO today ... did some research and went with the Costco special, Canon MX712 for $109. First scan out of the box:




Fairly pleased so far.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:44 PM   #127 (permalink)
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On another note, just noticed that Price cyan plate has been smeared since I bought it. Frown.
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:05 AM   #128 (permalink)
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Good luck with your break, I just ordered my first case ever too. (Bowman Chrome)
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:15 AM   #129 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by calculusdork View Post
Cases will likely be here early tomorrow afternoon ... all the SPs have really added to the excitement. Best part, my boys have been counting down the days, they will be ready to rip!
Love this post. Hope you all have fun and pull some sweet stuff! As an aside, perfect information in a market subject to rampant irrationality? Personally, I would ask for something else.
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Old 10-03-2012, 10:32 AM   #130 (permalink)
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Love this post. Hope you all have fun and pull some sweet stuff! As an aside, perfect information in a market subject to rampant irrationality? Personally, I would ask for something else.
Thanks a lot. And yes, I would like to have perfect information in everything, not just economics. I'd like to know how many hairs I have on my head, and what you're thinking right now. Is it elephants?

Cases are out for delivery! Wife is waiting patiently (well, impatiently) at home. Planning to leave work by noon today regardless of when they show up, my UPS guy usually comes by around 1:00 anyway.

Next post will be a link to the Breaks section when we're getting started!
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Old 10-03-2012, 11:48 AM   #131 (permalink)
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This is hilarious to me (in a good way since I am happy you are very excited about this)
Lol

Rock out man good luck!
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Old 10-03-2012, 12:23 PM   #132 (permalink)
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This is hilarious to me (in a good way since I am happy you are very excited about this)
Lol

Rock out man good luck!
I know, it's pretty ridiculous how excited I am.

Cases are here, will be ripping shortly.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:14 PM   #133 (permalink)
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So now that the dust has settled, how was it? Did the experience turn out to be everything you had hoped for?
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:03 PM   #134 (permalink)
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So now that the dust has settled, how was it? Did the experience turn out to be everything you had hoped for?
Will detail my experience tomorrow. For now, a very mixed bag of emotions ... I loved it and hated it (particularly sorting 33 base sets).
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:06 PM   #135 (permalink)
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How did this turn out?
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:23 PM   #136 (permalink)
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Sorting is the thing I detest. How did it go, my wife and I stated our multi case breaks with series one topps. It was a lot of fun.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:38 AM   #137 (permalink)
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See thread below for detailed results.

"My First Big Case Break!!!" - Results and Feedback
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:46 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Guys, I am working on two rather large articles that I will post on cardboard connection probably after my update break. The first is going to be a huge article of the yearly calendar of Topps baseball products over the past three years and their average return on investment. I've included all my data, terapeak data and other case breakers data. This article will have much details in it. And will also go over return on investment versus value since the two things are not the same, Especially when it comes from the perspective of a collector or box opener as opposed to a case breaker.

I would love to include any data from any case breakers on here. I am looking for anyone open any cases of Topps baseball product with in the last three years since 2010. If you supplied data your name and specific data will not be shared with anyone rather use to calculate averages and percentages in this article. I already have a bunch of data but could use a little bit more from case breakers that typically will break anywhere from 1 to 10 cases of products. You do not have to break and products a year or even five just looking for any amount of data. Especially on fire in product because typically casepackers do not open those very often. Please email me at myebay50@hotmail.com or DM me here. I'll send you some basic questions.

Finally, the second article will based on my case breaking process. I have written similar articles but this time I'm going to be specific. I am going to go over my entire 50 case break of update. I am going to tell you what I did each day throughout the entire 2 to 3 week process and also tell you the amount of manpower and hours it took and what the time spent on each area was. Case breaking should be fun. But is not always easy. And most definitely not always a guaranteed money maker. But I hope to supply some informative articles that should be interesting and be helpful at the same time.

I will post this in one other place here on this forum and I will send a tweet regarding this information. Look for the article hopefully around the beginning of November. Good luck to all.


Thanks to the 17 breakers that shared data with me, and others who also shared data. The article is done now.
Case Breaking ROI for Every 2012 Topps Baseball Product

Some side notes, most breakers I spoke to lose money, even some group breakers (whose data I did not use, only those who broke product), and those that made a small profit, showed it to be very small, not enough to do much with. Most profits on a product were in the $100s if not a loss, but then next product or two would be a loss.

There is a science to this like any side business, but there are no guarantees, and definitely not a way to make a decent living unless your circumstances are strong, otherwise all hobby stores/distributors/etc would be busting the cases, or shoot, topps could just sell the cards as singles rather than pack them out, lol

So much more can be shared on this, but maybe some other time. Working on an article previewing 2013, which many think will be a down year with less new products, no big rc, harper/trout autos missing from the lineup of 2013 products so far, more folks opening, and other factors, but we shall see

good luck all
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:12 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Breaking cases of Topps Update can be very time consuming. Be warned.

As for the money aspect, this was the first year in a long time I didn't bust at least one case of Update but in the past within the first month of release I have always at least broken even.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:17 PM   #140 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by brentandbecca View Post
Thanks to the 17 breakers that shared data with me, and others who also shared data. The article is done now.
Case Breaking ROI for Every 2012 Topps Baseball Product

Some side notes, most breakers I spoke to lose money, even some group breakers (whose data I did not use, only those who broke product), and those that made a small profit, showed it to be very small, not enough to do much with. Most profits on a product were in the $100s if not a loss, but then next product or two would be a loss.

There is a science to this like any side business, but there are no guarantees, and definitely not a way to make a decent living unless your circumstances are strong, otherwise all hobby stores/distributors/etc would be busting the cases, or shoot, topps could just sell the cards as singles rather than pack them out, lol

So much more can be shared on this, but maybe some other time. Working on an article previewing 2013, which many think will be a down year with less new products, no big rc, harper/trout autos missing from the lineup of 2013 products so far, more folks opening, and other factors, but we shall see

good luck all

Nice work, it was a good read. I think it is almost impossible to gather accurate data when this is the subject matter. First off, I believe that a lot of the succesful breakers are not vocal about it, and do not want to share how good or bad they do. Secondly, almost every single breaker I have met or talked to do it differently. Almost every single one has a fault that falls into one of the following categories:

-They have to dump everything fast to cover their cost.
-They do not have the time needed to do it right.
-They go to the post office and spend a ton more than needed on shipping.
-Their customer service skills suck and they lose customers because of it.
-They do not know how to properly list auctions on ebay.
-They do not know when it is better to do an auction vs. BIN.
-They take a big risk with a product that is 100% reliant on luck.
-They do not know which product sells better as a set vs. player lots.
-They buy too much or too little of a product.

-I can go on and on.

Being a large case breaker is truly an art, and there are far more people that try to do it than should. I think that is reflected with your numbers. If someone does it right, and chooses the right product they should be able to get a MINIMUM of 90% ROI. And that should be the absolute worst case scenerio IMO. Again, that does not mean you can break Triple Threads and expect that. That falls under the "risky" example above.

I hope this did not come across wrong to anyone. I want more people to succeed in this hobby. I enjoy reading about people doing great on a break. If you haven't been doing good, find out what you are doing wrong and make an adjustment. There are profits to be had for those willing to put in the work and get it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:18 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Breaking cases of Topps Update can be very time consuming. Be warned.

As for the money aspect, this was the first year in a long time I didn't bust at least one case of Update but in the past within the first month of release I have always at least broken even.
yep, not talking hours, by weeks
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:29 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Agree, the data is what was supplied, but many don't track accurately or completely. And while I like the issues you laid out, I will also there is no prefect method, that is part of the issue. Each product is different, some should be done via fixed price over auction, some do better locally or at shows, some move on comc after release or on amazon. Plus some products sell better sealed or as group breaks. The most successful breakers move at least 33%-50% (if not higher) off of ebay so they max returns and min fees, but even the best breakers could improve.
BUT this must be done with big customers and ahead of time as after release prices fall and anyone can go find it on ebay.
And yes, every product is different on the amount you should buy...some products are great in the 4-8 case range, others are not, and those that buy 10+ better have enough customers to move product unless they want to sit on inventory for weeks, months or longer and at rock bottom prices for most part.

If case 1 cost $500 and master sets sell for $125, base sets for $25 and autos avg $10 per, then when case #20 still cost $500, but masters are down to $80 base sets to $18 and avg autos at $5, then you run into problems, and bought too much most likely. But I can't really say anything as I buy 30-40-50-60, but I say this to warn those that run projections out ahead of time.

Finally, not sure on your 90% ROI comment. I think you meant recoup at least 90% of your money, not make a 90% return profit. Not one breaker in the report came near 90% profit on a break last year on the products reported and tracked. On higher end products I know many that can't recoup up to 90% of their funds back, those are based solely on luck and not overall value/content. Sure you can hit a BIG card, but the more you open, the less valuable that BIG card becomes to your overall break.
Not one of the breakers reported big money made for the year, BUT several reported big losses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by premium1981 View Post
Nice work, it was a good read. I think it is almost impossible to gather accurate data when this is the subject matter. First off, I believe that a lot of the succesful breakers are not vocal about it, and do not want to share how good or bad they do. Secondly, almost every single breaker I have met or talked to do it differently. Almost every single one has a fault that falls into one of the following categories:

-They have to dump everything fast to cover their cost.
-They do not have the time needed to do it right.
-They go to the post office and spend a ton more than needed on shipping.
-Their customer service skills suck and they lose customers because of it.
-They do not know how to properly list auctions on ebay.
-They do not know when it is better to do an auction vs. BIN.
-They take a big risk with a product that is 100% reliant on luck.
-They do not know which product sells better as a set vs. player lots.
-They buy too much or too little of a product.

-I can go on and on.

Being a large case breaker is truly an art, and there are far more people that try to do it than should. I think that is reflected with your numbers. If someone does it right, and chooses the right product they should be able to get a MINIMUM of 90% ROI. And that should be the absolute worst case scenerio IMO. Again, that does not mean you can break Triple Threads and expect that. That falls under the "risky" example above.

I hope this did not come across wrong to anyone. I want more people to succeed in this hobby. I enjoy reading about people doing great on a break. If you haven't been doing good, find out what you are doing wrong and make an adjustment. There are profits to be had for those willing to put in the work and get it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:36 PM   #143 (permalink)
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I believe he meant most are able to recoup 90%
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:43 PM   #144 (permalink)
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I believe he meant most are able to recoup 90%
me too, but so many were not able to, even on some basic products
so many factors like case cost, and speed of opening/listing/etc

it really takes sheer work & dedication
I basically sit at computer with cards all day everyday, no going out, no life, lol

you don't have to do that but when you lose $, or get complaints on slow shipping, or whatnot, that is why...nothing wrong with it, as some choose to do that and not be tied down to ebay, and I agree with that and long for it myself... life is bigger and more important, so for me I am looking for alternatives and ways to spend more time away from cards and with family
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:54 PM   #145 (permalink)
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From the article: "An interesting observance was that 13 of the 17 said 2012 was their best year breaking, which means that several still lost money while having their best year."


Was this conclusion pulled from actual spreadsheet data?
That would be interesting that a breaker would have a recognized loss on the year and still call it the "best ever". Following that line of thinking would suggest that they lost EVEN MORE in 2011, but still continued to break cases in 2012 (and then lost money again).
Maybe they shouldn't be breaking cases?
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:56 PM   #146 (permalink)
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me too, but so many were not able to, even on some basic products
so many factors like case cost, and speed of opening/listing/etc

it really takes sheer work & dedication
I basically sit at computer with cards all day everyday, no going out, no life, lol

you don't have to do that but when you lose $, or get complaints on slow shipping, or whatnot, that is why...nothing wrong with it, as some choose to do that and not be tied down to ebay, and I agree with that and long for it myself... life is bigger and more important, so for me I am looking for alternatives and ways to spend more time away from cards and with family

Yea, I meant recover 90% of investment. I still feel that number holds true for the most part. You mentioned several large breakers losing money, and I can 100% see that and understand. BUT, I think it has to do with what I mentioned above. Some of my points can cost you hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars on big breaks. I agree that everyone can improve, including myself.

I think one of the biggest mistakes we make when "judging" someone is using their online presence as a level of wisdom. Some of the people most looked up to on this site and others are nothing more than someone who has built a large post count. People assume someone with 5,000 posts know what they are talking about, when in reality, they could be the last person you should be listening to. I have seen people say "so and so lost money on this product, so there is no way I am touching it". Maybe so and so is not as financially savy as they are perceived to be.

Ok, I am just rambling now. Bottom line is that there is money to be made, you just have to know how to do it and have the ability to do it. If there wasn't money to be made people wouldn't be flocking to try it out. It is similar to the stock market. There are some very smart people who make a killing every single day. Then there are amatures like myself, who put some money into Apple and GE and hope for the best. Same can be said for cards.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:58 PM   #147 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CharlieHustle View Post
From the article: "An interesting observance was that 13 of the 17 said 2012 was their best year breaking, which means that several still lost money while having their best year."


Was this conclusion pulled from actual spreadsheet data?
That would be interesting that a breaker would have a recognized loss on the year and still call it the "best ever". Following that line of thinking would suggest that they lost EVEN MORE in 2011, but still continued to break cases in 2012 (and then lost money again).
Maybe they shouldn't be breaking cases?
I would surmise that the problem is -- a lot of guys that break cases (for potential profit) tend to blow their profits on more cards, i.e. if I were to have taken my profits from my Update break and bought a box or two of Five Star, then taken any profits from that and bought another box of something else, etc. etc. At that point it's a gambler's ruin.

I could be wrong, but that's my guess.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:00 PM   #148 (permalink)
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I could be wrong, but that's my guess.
I guarantee you are right with some people. A gambler's ruin is a great way to word it.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:10 PM   #149 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CharlieHustle View Post
From the article: "An interesting observance was that 13 of the 17 said 2012 was their best year breaking, which means that several still lost money while having their best year."


Was this conclusion pulled from actual spreadsheet data?
That would be interesting that a breaker would have a recognized loss on the year and still call it the "best ever". Following that line of thinking would suggest that they lost EVEN MORE in 2011, but still continued to break cases in 2012 (and then lost money again).
Maybe they shouldn't be breaking cases?
you are correct, and all of these folks broke cases in 2010, 2011, 2012
BUT interesting to note, that since none do it full-time for living and a s a side even doing 50-100+ cases a year, most said they don't do it for the money, and know they will lose
many do it due to love of cards/breaking/thrill/enjoyment, the gambling aspect (same could be said of people who gamble at slots or buy lottery tickets, or whatever, right?), or to try and improve

problem is so many are braking too many cases of products while others are breaking almost every release, that is why they are losing consistently

but even taking that out, the best breakers don't make a hill of beans and that is why folks do this as a side, not much room for growth and very little can be controlled as prices fluctuate as do release dates, policies, shipping, etc...
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:11 PM   #150 (permalink)
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I would surmise that the problem is -- a lot of guys that break cases (for potential profit) tend to blow their profits on more cards, i.e. if I were to have taken my profits from my Update break and bought a box or two of Five Star, then taken any profits from that and bought another box of something else, etc. etc. At that point it's a gambler's ruin.

I could be wrong, but that's my guess.
If that were the case, then IMO, the article is moot as it's not talking about the success/failure of case breaker's, but of their overall card business.
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