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Old 09-13-2012, 04:23 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Afton9444 View Post
Is this guy Guy Really that DUMB??
So it would be OK then for me to state the following:

Afton9444 is selling trimmed cards, I mean they have to be trimmed right, otherwise why wouldnt he get these raw cards graded???

Wait, that is just an opinion of my, I have no proof. That is what everyone is doing in here, STATING AN OPINION, NOT FACT.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:27 PM   #52 (permalink)
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just look at the the guys Andrew luck auto he is not even good at doing autos. it lacks the speed of authentic auto you can see he did the A then started again from the A and added a extra doodle in the middle.
ANDREW LUCK Autograph Photo 4X6 | eBay

look at any other Andrew Luck Auto and you can see how obvious it is this guy is doing these himself.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:29 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nhsportsguy View Post
Has anyone else noticed how Cuddy's opinion has gone from "all buyers that get taken are stupid, and it makes no sense to warn other community members of scamming," to "someone prove it's fake"?

Congratulations on deflecting everyone's initial point that if you feel as though community members shouldn't warn others of potential scams, you sir, should leave this thread, this board, this hobby. You have no place here.
I love how you use " " referring to things I have supposedly said.

I NEVER once said a buyer is "Stupid" if they get taken, I said it is there responsibility to do their research. If you get taken without doing your research then are you at fault? Youre damn right you are.

I NEVER once stated "it makes no sense to warn other community members of scamming", what I said was why do "potential fake autographs" need to be brought up? If seller "XYZ AUTOGRAPH SALES" has been linked to selling fakes, then by all means, OUT THEM. Buy by outting someone based on an opinion and not fact is baseless.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:31 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cuddy Collector View Post
So it would be OK then for me to state the following:

Afton9444 is selling trimmed cards, I mean they have to be trimmed right, otherwise why wouldnt he get these raw cards graded???

Wait, that is just an opinion of my, I have no proof. That is what everyone is doing in here, STATING AN OPINION, NOT FACT.
that makes no sense... you can't tell by looking at a picture that a card is trimmed. you can tell by looking at these very poor autos that they are VERY VERY VERY SUSPICIOUS AND I WOULD PAY FOR SOMEONES SUBMISSION IF IT CAME BACK REAL THAT IS HOW CONFIDENT I AM THESE ARE FAKE
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:33 PM   #55 (permalink)
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just look at the the guys Andrew luck auto he is not even good at doing autos. it lacks the speed of authentic auto you can see he did the A then started again from the A and added a extra doodle in the middle.
ANDREW LUCK Autograph Photo 4X6 | eBay

look at any other Andrew Luck Auto and you can see how obvious it is this guy is doing these himself.
I will agree with you, based on looking at other Andrew Luck autos, certified ones, I would not by this one based on inconsistencies. However if I was hell bent on buying a certain auto (lets just say for arguments sake this one), I would use the quick opinion to get the opinion of PSA vs. Joe Collector.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:36 PM   #56 (permalink)
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your missing the whole point

who cares take this example if there is a PSA booth right next to you at a card show and some guy is selling fake autos right next to that PSA booth. and now you blame a customer for not going to the PSA booth to get it checked out....WHO CARES>>

the guy selling the fake autos needs to get hung out to dry.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:40 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cuddy Collector View Post
I will agree with you, based on looking at other Andrew Luck autos, certified ones, I would not by this one based on inconsistencies. However if I was hell bent on buying a certain auto (lets just say for arguments sake this one), I would use the quick opinion to get the opinion of PSA vs. Joe Collector.
Or you can do some research instead of wasting money for someones else opinion which isnt proof its real, only the autographe & the person who got it signed knows the truth. If doing research say about this seller on google, guess what happens? I find this thread and read about his shady practice, you moron. You have gone from point A to point E to point C then to point F. You are all over the place.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:42 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Afton9444 View Post
that makes no sense... you can't tell by looking at a picture that a card is trimmed. you can tell by looking at these very poor autos that they are VERY VERY VERY SUSPICIOUS AND I WOULD PAY FOR SOMEONES SUBMISSION IF IT CAME BACK REAL THAT IS HOW CONFIDENT I AM THESE ARE FAKE
Not entirely true.
With a good scan, you can measure the pixels from top to bottom and left to right to get a pretty accurate measurement.

However, remember I was just stating my opinion on the trimming, I had not fact to back it up. Just like the OP had no facts to back up his topic, "Fake signed photo seller on ebay..."

Are they fake? Lets say probably
Are we positive?

As an example, how many here, if I cropped out the PSA holder would call this Joe Dimaggio a fake?

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Old 09-13-2012, 04:43 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cuddy Collector View Post
I love how you use " " referring to things I have supposedly said.

I NEVER once said a buyer is "Stupid" if they get taken, I said it is there responsibility to do their research. If you get taken without doing your research then are you at fault? Youre damn right you are.

I NEVER once stated "it makes no sense to warn other community members of scamming", what I said was why do "potential fake autographs" need to be brought up? If seller "XYZ AUTOGRAPH SALES" has been linked to selling fakes, then by all means, OUT THEM. Buy by outting someone based on an opinion and not fact is baseless.
You really just don't get it, do you?

Do you not realize what you're saying? How can you lay all the blame on the consumer for buying something that is fake, and lay no blame on the seller that is committing a crime?! Honestly, sir, before I was questioning your intelligence, now I'm convinced you're just too foolish to understand what you're saying. I'm not mad at you for it, I just pity how senselessly and foolishly you must go through life.

Please, allow me to educate you on something - a forum is a place where people who have similar interests can 'gather' to discuss relevant topics, and share their opinions of things. You have come onto our forum and said we should not express our opinions about potential scammers. Do you truly not see the foolishness of this?
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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if you knew anything about cards that was joe D's sig when he was in his 80's and coming to the end of his life.. he couldn't do his nice and clean auto...

I think Harper Trout and Luck are in good enough shape to keep doing a good clean auto

Just give it up
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:47 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Or you can do some research instead of wasting money for someones else opinion which isnt proof its real, only the autographe & the person who got it signed knows the truth. If doing research say about this seller on google, guess what happens? I find this thread and read about his shady practice, you moron. You have gone from point A to point E to point C then to point F. You are all over the place.
How am I all over the place?

Cause I take the posters example, I look at it, I feel there are inconsistencies, so I wouldnt buy it without getting a quick opinion first?

If I did do that, it came back as "likely not genuine", then I would come on here, stating the following:

Just a heads up, I was thinking about purchasing this Andrew Luck auto, but I saw inconsistencies, so I submitted it for quick opinion with PSA. It came back as "likely not genuine", so buyer beware, if this one came back as that, it is probable that more of this sellers autos are the same.

See the difference there?
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:52 PM   #62 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Afton9444 View Post
if you knew anything about cards that was joe D's sig when he was in his 80's and coming to the end of his life.. he couldn't do his nice and clean auto...

I think Harper Trout and Luck are in good enough shape to keep doing a good clean auto

Just give it up
Oh I do know, but what about the "uneducated" that were referenced in the beginning of this thread? What about them? Does everyone know about every players auto styles throughout their entire lives? No they dont. At first glance, most would say that some 7 year old signed that, that isnt Joe D. Heck, Joe D wouldnt even come to most peoples minds. But by me as say an "uneducated" buyer doing some research or submitting for PSA opinion or authentication, I am protecting myself from getting taken by a potential fake auto.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:55 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cuddy Collector View Post
Jesus Christ, thats what eBay offers, PSA QUICK OPINION

My original post showed what eBay suggested to buyers, if not sure about an auto, they can use this service.
It still costs $7.95, and you would applause someone to spend $7.95 and have it say not genuine?
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:59 PM   #64 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cuddy Collector View Post
How am I all over the place?

Cause I take the posters example, I look at it, I feel there are inconsistencies, so I wouldnt buy it without getting a quick opinion first?

If I did do that, it came back as "likely not genuine", then I would come on here, stating the following:

Just a heads up, I was thinking about purchasing this Andrew Luck auto, but I saw inconsistencies, so I submitted it for quick opinion with PSA. It came back as "likely not genuine", so buyer beware, if this one came back as that, it is probable that more of this sellers autos are the same.

See the difference there?
this is not a good argument.

i know 100% that the bryce harper auto in the OP is fake.

i know this because i have seen thousands of bryce harper autos. JUST LIKE PSA.

if you submit it to PSA, they have their guy who also has seen thousands of harper autos. same exact thing. FAKE.

keep conveniently avoiding those posts with "common sense"... it makes you look real smart.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:06 PM   #65 (permalink)
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You really just don't get it, do you?

Do you not realize what you're saying? How can you lay all the blame on the consumer for buying something that is fake, and lay no blame on the seller that is committing a crime?! Honestly, sir, before I was questioning your intelligence, now I'm convinced you're just too foolish to understand what you're saying. I'm not mad at you for it, I just pity how senselessly and foolishly you must go through life.

Please, allow me to educate you on something - a forum is a place where people who have similar interests can 'gather' to discuss relevant topics, and share their opinions of things. You have come onto our forum and said we should not express our opinions about potential scammers. Do you truly not see the foolishness of this?
THANK YOU
You finally used the magical work, potential, which I used in my very first post and have been getting flamed for.

The OP stated the autos were fake and every other post after that up to mine all stated they are fake.

All I asked was why do we have to call out the potential frauds as basically "noted frauds" without the proof.

You cant tell me that if you were in a situation and someone called you something that you werent, whether it a fraud, a criminal, whatever, you wouldnt be upset. What I have been hearing is fact or opinion, it is ok to post whatever one wants as a fact.

My point in all of this, I know lost in all of the bashing towards me, was, if a person IS a FRAUD, then call them out by all means. However, I think it is unfair to do so without PROOF. Not one poster has shown the PROOF, just their OPINIONS. I guess I dont see how I am so so wrong here asking for that proof. I do my research first before purchasing, meaning comparing autos to know authentic examples, so all of the weight is on my if I eff up in my purchase and am proven otherwise. My bad for doing so. Good luck all in your collecting adventures.

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Old 09-13-2012, 05:09 PM   #66 (permalink)
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this is not a good argument.

i know 100% that the bryce harper auto in the OP is fake.

i know this because i have seen thousands of bryce harper autos. JUST LIKE PSA.

if you submit it to PSA, they have their guy who also has seen thousands of harper autos. same exact thing. FAKE.

keep conveniently avoiding those posts with "common sense"... it makes you look real smart.
Congrats

Here are Harper autos on eBay, PSA and Certified ones.
Lots and lots of differences from the top of the page to the bottom, some that look like they have been signed by different people.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...+psa&_osacat=0

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Old 09-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #67 (permalink)
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I agree with everything you've said Cuddy.

That said, they're MY auctions!
So Fleece as they are your items, do you believe them to be real?

I really feel bad for all the people you have "stolen" from.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:13 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Cuddy's argument, if I am reading this right, taken into a different context:

There is an email going around that came into my inbox from a Nigerian Prince promising to make me $10,000. I suspect that this might be a potential scam but have no proof of this.

I know there is also a community of people who use email, maybe all of my close relatives including my grandmother.

I should not warn the community, including my grandmother who is susecptible to scams due to her inexperience and age, because it is their problem if they get fooled by the seller.

Nigerian Prince = eBay seller
Email = The Hobby
Community = BO Forum
Grandmother = inexperienced collectors



While we all understand that yes, the buyer should be ultimately responsible for their actions, the fact of the matter is that the sellers are engaging in potentially fraudulent activity and it does the community a solid by making others more aware of what is potentially out there.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:14 PM   #69 (permalink)
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When the son of the deposed king of Nigeria contacts you directly asking for help ... you help!
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Why is nobody asking VeedonFleece why he is selling fake autos?
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #71 (permalink)
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When the son of the deposed king of Nigeria contacts you directly asking for help ... you help!
very true - it's a once in a lifetime opportunity!
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:16 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Regarding your question about my mother, this was 13 years ago, so no she wouldn't have . In all seriousness though, I was just commenting about people like the OP who alert others to potential scams and fake autos. So while the average loved one without sports card knowledge might not make an account here, they COULD search "fake Harper auto" or something similar and maybe be led to this thread.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:18 PM   #73 (permalink)
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While we all understand that yes, the buyer should be ultimately responsible for their actions, the fact of the matter is that the sellers are engaging in potentially fraudulent activity and it does the community a solid by making others more aware of what is potentially out there.
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Regarding your question about my mother, this was 13 years ago, so no she wouldn't have . In all seriousness though, I was just commenting about people like the OP who alert others to potential scams and fake autos. So while the average loved one without sports card knowledge might not make an account here, they COULD search "fake Harper auto" or something similar and maybe be led to this thread.
Again, the magical word is used, potential.
Thats what I stated from the beginning.
The OP stated as fact they were fake, I just asked why sellers were outted as frauds as a "fact" vs. the "potential".
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:21 PM   #74 (permalink)
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The posts are blending together, did Cuddy ever bother to address this?
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Again, the magical word is used, potential.
Thats what I stated from the beginning.
The OP stated as fact they were fake, I just asked why sellers were outted as frauds as a "fact" vs. the "potential".
Let's just forget about all those posts which put the onus squarely on the buyer's shoulders which seemed to take issue with the fact that this thread even existed. Like your very first post in this thread which started the trolling (highlighted portion):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuddy Collector View Post
Serious question here, below is what you will find on the majority of eBay Autograph Auctions. Why does the collecting community feel the need to warn of every Tom, Dick and Harry seller of potential "fake autographs" when eBay clearly lays out the below before you submit your bid?

If an item, as you have posted, is so fake, its the buyers fault for not doing the research (see below), and no one elses. Just my $.02 worth.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Autograph Buying Tips: eBay requires sellers who promote listings with a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) to provide details about the certificate including the name of the issuing party. Listings that don’t comply are in violation of eBay policy and may not be covered by eBay services such as feedback and purchase protections.

Before you buy, use this checklist to help you get the autograph that you want!

# Read the listing carefully. Make sure you’re comfortable with the description and image of the item.

# Get an Expert opinion. Before you buy, use the "Quick Opinion" service to get the opinion of a qualified expert (for a nominal fee).

# Seek a Certificate of Authenticity (COA) from a prominent authenticator. Some authenticators are considered more credible with the industry and collectors. At a minimum, make sure the COA issuer has a proven track record of experience and integrity.

# Check the seller's feedback rating and ask questions. Don’t hesitate to ask the seller about their reputation or how they came to possess an item.

# Be aware of "reprints". Sellers may sell reproductions of original autographs, but are required to disclose that they are reprints. Look for other reprint names like “print” or “copy” in the item description.

# Do your research. Find out what an athlete’s signature looks like and remember, “If it seems too good to be true,” it probably is.

Last edited by uberfatty; 09-13-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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