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Old 09-13-2012, 06:44 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Conversely when have you ever suggested the seller is wrong? Everything you have said would be on the side of the seller.
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Look at the post about the Andrew Luck one I replied to and that will answer your question.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:49 PM   #102 (permalink)
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Now you are just resorting to arguing semantics. That is his opinion, it just happens to be a strong one. Of course none of us can provide concrete evidence, but everything points to them being fake. It's a grey area, not black and white. We have to go off what we are given, and a store full of questionable autos is pretty strong evidence towards one direction.

Tell me this, would you be comfortable paying good money for one of those autos right now? After all as you say there is no real evidence, so you should be comfortable buying one correct?
I stated in the Andrew Luck example, there were inconsistencies, if I were to buy, I would submit to PSA Quick Opinion first before running to a forum and stating that a seller is "absolutely selling fakes". I would have the proof before stating something like that. Is that so hard to grasp? Having facts before stating an "absolute"?
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:53 PM   #103 (permalink)
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And you might think I'm being overly black and white, absolutely vs potentially, calling out without proof vs calling out with proof. I just don't get how people defend calling someone out without solid proof. That's all.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:55 PM   #104 (permalink)
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WE GAVE YOU PROOF> Like I said buy one send it to PSA if it is authentic I will reimburse you and pay for the price of the auction. so you get one free photo...PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:00 PM   #105 (permalink)
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And you might think I'm being overly black and white, absolutely vs potentially, calling out without proof vs calling out with proof. I just don't get how people defend calling someone out without solid proof. That's all.
I envy you, to be able to go through life looking at everything as completely one way or the other with no in-between. You shouldn't need such concrete proof to make a judgement. Sometimes you don't have that luxury. Now is a perfect example. We don't have a response from an authenticator to go off of and quite frankly, all they are are just glorified versions of us. They are people who study the hobby and research real autos vs. fake ones. I think that the overwhelming majority opinion on here is a very good barometer for what is fake and what is real.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:09 PM   #106 (permalink)
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Friar, I thank you for your well constructed and classy non-bashing responses. I agree that PSA is nothing more than a glorified group of examiners, but from a financial perspective, I would take their word over Joe Collectors.

Trust me, I see both sides of stories and opinions, whether you believe it or not, I have in this thread too. I said I had my doubts as to the Luck auto.

I said I believe in having proof before calling someone out as a fraud. If that is a fault of mine, then maybe I have to accept it. Or I can choose to be like others and shoot first and ask questions later.
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Old 09-13-2012, 07:15 PM   #107 (permalink)
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Friar, I thank you for your well constructed and classy non-bashing responses. I agree that PSA is nothing more than a glorified group of examiners, but from a financial perspective, I would take their word over Joe Collectors.

Trust me, I see both sides of stories and opinions, whether you believe it or not, I have in this thread too. I said I had my doubts as to the Luck auto.

I said I believe in having proof before calling someone out as a fraud. If that is a fault of mine, then maybe I have to accept it. Or I can choose to be like others and shoot first and ask questions later.
You're welcome, always open to debate when people keep it civil and reasonable.

I don't think anyone is "shooting first" as you say. The root of your argument is that you saw all these people getting out their torches and pitchforks to destroy the seller and you played devil's advocate. Nothing wrong with that, but it's all about perception as I've mentioned. I think that's where we differ, I am explaining things like how we perceive the seller or even how we perceive you as a new member. You on the other hand are looking at it more black and white. You've haven't actually defended the seller. The seller hasn't been proven to have fakes. Therefore we cannot judge. Unfortunately things don't tend to work that way, especially on here where people due to past issues with the hobby have learned to be very cautious and suspicious of anything even slightly off.

Everyone has to do their own due diligence, but places like this help. Maybe it's just me but I don't believe in a case like this it was a mob mentality, people had their own opinions and they were backed up by the opinions of others. You just got caught on the opposite side of it and as a new member people got suspicious. It's the same logic as with the seller. I see one fake. I go to his page and see more fakes. I check them against other autos and they don't look right. They might be real, but my logic and research says otherwise. Same with you as a new member. I see a new member with no feedback and few posts. I see him defend a seller my logic has determined is probably fake and is supported by the opinions of others. I wonder why this person cares so much.

It could all be completely wrong, but you gotta go off of what you're given it's just the way it is.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:51 PM   #108 (permalink)
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You must have skipped every single bullet point above, this one in particular, "Do your research. Find out what an athlete’s signature looks like and remember, “If it seems too good to be true,” it probably is."

If as a buyer you are "less informed" then you should not be shelling out your hard earned dollars, or mommy and daddys, without some sort of research. That sir is what is ridiculous.
All I can say is that everyone makes mistakes. People that are new to the hobby don't know well enough to "look before they leap". It is a good thing to warn people about fake cards on Ebay. I know I've made my share of bad purchases and learned alot from the posts on this site. Hindsight is 20/20, and there is nothing wrong with having empathy for someone who made a bad purchase or was fooled by a misleading listing. It seems like this hobby has come to a point where you have to be an expert and devote all of your time to being vigilant for every purchase. Not saying it hasn't always been that way to an extent, but if some poor guy/gal gets fooled out of his/her hard earned money, it should not make them a poor hobbiest or an idiot.
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #109 (permalink)
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why is noone goin after the guy who said they were his auctions?
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:57 PM   #110 (permalink)
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and another thing...just send the auto to GAI they will approve it
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Old 09-13-2012, 09:18 PM   #111 (permalink)
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why is noone goin after the guy who said they were his auctions?
somewhere i think on page 4 he said it was poorly timed sarcasm. could be covering his own butt, but it did seem to me like a bad joke at the time.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:14 AM   #112 (permalink)
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damn i just got a headache from reading all of this
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:06 AM   #113 (permalink)
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I'd love to see this guy's opinion on fake patch threads...lol Something along these lines, I'd assume:

How do you know that it is fake? I mean Topps totally could have put a 7 color patch in a card #'d to 999. Can you PROVE it's fake?
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Old 09-14-2012, 07:18 AM   #114 (permalink)
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Serious question here, below is what you will find on the majority of eBay Autograph Auctions.
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Luckily no one asked you. And not for nothing you sound a bit like someone who has knowingly sold fake items and are making excuses.
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Old 09-14-2012, 09:57 AM   #115 (permalink)
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I thought this kind of fit this thread.

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Old 09-14-2012, 10:12 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Luckily no one asked you. And not for nothing you sound a bit like someone who has knowingly sold fake items and are making excuses.
Feel free to analyze my feedback from top to bottom, nothing to hide, here is my eBay ID. Let me know if you would like my forum IDs on other sites to investigate your conspiracy theory there too.

eBay Feedback Profile for packerfan4life2002
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:06 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Feel free to analyze my feedback from top to bottom, nothing to hide, here is my eBay ID. Let me know if you would like my forum IDs on other sites to investigate your conspiracy theory there too.

eBay Feedback Profile for packerfan4life2002
No thank you, most people who know the ins and outs to forgeries usually have several accounts. But thanks anyhow.
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Old 09-14-2012, 11:39 AM   #118 (permalink)
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No thank you, most people who know the ins and outs to forgeries usually have several accounts. But thanks anyhow.
So then you're saying it takes one to know one....gotcha
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Feel free to analyze my feedback from top to bottom, nothing to hide, here is my eBay ID. Let me know if you would like my forum IDs on other sites to investigate your conspiracy theory there too.

eBay Feedback Profile for packerfan4life2002
Proof thats your ebay ID or it could be any Tom, Dick or Harry.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:40 PM   #120 (permalink)
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They are fake, why you all listening to a dumbass with 50 posts. Let the pointless newbee stick up for the scammer. Just ignore him.
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:43 PM   #121 (permalink)
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I thought this kind of fit this thread.

I am still praying
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Old 09-14-2012, 12:44 PM   #122 (permalink)
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We are letting a person with the screen name Cuddy Collector get to us now? lmfao....I would have just ignored his ass on page 1
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:05 PM   #123 (permalink)
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So Cuddy is saying to do research, but you can't have info on this forum to research. I'm confused.
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Old 09-14-2012, 01:42 PM   #124 (permalink)
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They are fake, why you all listening to a dumbass with 50 posts. Let the pointless newbee stick up for the scammer. Just ignore him.
As Ive said over and over and over in this thread, which you obviously have not read from beginning to end, I AM NOT STICKING UP FOR THE SCAMMER. Heck, even a few other members have noted the same thing. If by me suggesting that people prove something is a fake before outting someone that they are "absolutely selling fakes" and also putting the onus on buyers to research "potential fakes" before buying is sooooooooo wrong, or obtuse in thinking as NH guy put it, then so be it as your opinion, you have yours, I have mine. I purchased an item in the past that I later found out to be fake. Is that my fault or someone elses? In the end it is my fault for not researching the item further. Like me, hate me, block me, ignore me, I really dont care. Is the seller selling fakes? Probably. Do I have 100% undeniable proof? No I do not, all I have is an OPINION. However with that OPINION I would not come here and state they are "absolutely selling fakes", I would suggest there are inconsistencies with the items that they are selling to warrant buyers doing their research, whatever they choose to be their research, before making a purchase with them.

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We are letting a person with the screen name Cuddy Collector get to us now? lmfao....I would have just ignored his ass on page 1
Ive always found it classy when a member bashes another for who they collect.

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Old 09-14-2012, 02:21 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Proof thats your ebay ID or it could be any Tom, Dick or Harry.


That work for you?

Or would you like my SSN and CC #s too?
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