Blowout Cards Forums
eBay Front Page (card ed)

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASEBALL

BASEBALL Post your Baseball Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-07-2012, 08:49 AM   #26 (permalink)
Member
 
BostonNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,850
Default

You do realize the '04 Red Sox were a patch-work rag tag bunch, right?

I mean...Orlando Cabrera, Bill Mueller, Bronson Arroyo, an unknown David Ortiz, Kevin Millar, Mike Timlin, Allan Embree...

FranKonerko did a hell of a job managing that team.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
You missed my point though. My point is, Francoma is a lousy manager when he doesn't have a $150million all star lineup and that will be proven in 2013 by the Indians.

The teams you mentioned have good managers, not just guys that can handle the personalities of a $175million payroll.
BostonNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 09:23 AM   #27 (permalink)
Member
 
TXGunslinger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRalpho View Post
If the Indians suck next year or the tenure of Tito's contract, its gonna be because of poor drafting and poor scouting.

Santana, Kipnis, Lindor are a good start. They need to draft better and cut bait from the Sizemores and Hafners of the world

Ubaldo sucks too but so does Pomeranz so what are they losing?
So basically Tito is great but if they don't win then it's poor drafting and scouting. But if they win do you give him the credit or does that go to drafting and scouting also? Just don't get why you are making excuses for a very good manager 6 months before his first game.
__________________
Collecting Ian Kinsler & HOF Baseballs
http://s1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj546/lonestr80/
TXGunslinger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 10:02 AM   #28 (permalink)
Member
 
IamRalpho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrybcollins View Post
So basically Tito is great but if they don't win then it's poor drafting and scouting. But if they win do you give him the credit or does that go to drafting and scouting also? Just don't get why you are making excuses for a very good manager 6 months before his first game.
Not excuses but people are already saying he sucks as a manager, but he wont be great next year because of what is in Cleveland. I am talking about JUST next year, but for the life of his contract if he cant do anything with that team then its his fault as well

You could be the greatest manager in the world, but if you had Clevelands roster RIGHT NOW, you arent winning anything.
IamRalpho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 10:41 AM   #29 (permalink)
Member
 
HadWayTooMuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRalpho View Post
Not excuses but people are already saying he sucks as a manager, but he wont be great next year because of what is in Cleveland. I am talking about JUST next year, but for the life of his contract if he cant do anything with that team then its his fault as well

You could be the greatest manager in the world, but if you had Clevelands roster RIGHT NOW, you arent winning anything.
He does suck as a manager. But he's great at managing personalities. Well, the Indians don't have any personalitiies, they need an "X's and O's" manager, so to speak who will get the most out of the least talent. Something he has never done.

And for the record, the 2004 Red Sox had a payroll far exceeding $120million for the fine gentleman that talked about putting together a rag tag team, does this sound like one, circa 2004?

Manny Ramirez $20,409,542.00
Pedro Martinez $17,500,000.00
Curt Schilling $12,000,000.00
Nomar Garciaparra $11,500,000.00
Johnny Damon $8,000,000.00
Jason Varitek $6,900,000.00
David Ortiz $4,587,500.00
Derek Lowe $4,500,000.00
Trot Nixon $4,500,000.00
Tim Wakefield $4,350,000.00
Ricky Gutierrez $4,166,667.00
Ramiro Mendoza $3,600,000.00
Keith Foulke $3,500,000.00
Byung-Hyun Kim $3,425,000.00
Kevin Millar $3,300,000.00
Scott Williamson $3,175,000.00
Alan Embree $3,000,000.00
Doug Mientkiewicz $2,800,000.00
Mike Timlin $2,500,000.00
Bill Mueller $2,100,000.00
Terry Adams $1,700,000.00
Orlando Cabrera $1,500,000.00
Curtis Leskanic $1,250,000.00
Pokey Reese $1,000,000.00
Dave Roberts $975,000.00
Doug Mirabelli $825,000.00
Ellis Burks $750,000.00
Gabe Kapler $750,000.00
Mike Myers $550,000.00
David McCarty $500,000.00
Mark Bellhorn $490,000.00
Bronson Arroyo $332,500.00
Abe Alvarez $300,000.00
Jamie Brown $300,000.00
Lenny DiNardo $300,000.00
Andy Dominique $300,000.00
Mark Malaska $300,000.00
Anastacio Martinez $300,000.00
Phil Seibel $300,000.00
Earl Snyder $300,000.00
Kevin Youkilis $300,000.00
HadWayTooMuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 11:22 AM   #30 (permalink)
Member
 
BostonNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,850
Default

Who cares what the hell the 2004 team made?!? Manny, Pedro, Schilling, and Damon were the only "superstars" on that team. FranKonerko did an outstanding job that season. The way he managed the bullpen down the stretch was brillant. How he stick with Bellhorn no matter what was genius.

By your logic....if this season's Houston Astros had a payroll of $150 million FranKonerko would have led them to an undefeated season...

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
He does suck as a manager. But he's great at managing personalities. Well, the Indians don't have any personalitiies, they need an "X's and O's" manager, so to speak who will get the most out of the least talent. Something he has never done.

And for the record, the 2004 Red Sox had a payroll far exceeding $120million for the fine gentleman that talked about putting together a rag tag team, does this sound like one, circa 2004?

Manny Ramirez $20,409,542.00
Pedro Martinez $17,500,000.00
Curt Schilling $12,000,000.00
Nomar Garciaparra $11,500,000.00
Johnny Damon $8,000,000.00
Jason Varitek $6,900,000.00
David Ortiz $4,587,500.00
Derek Lowe $4,500,000.00
Trot Nixon $4,500,000.00
Tim Wakefield $4,350,000.00
Ricky Gutierrez $4,166,667.00
Ramiro Mendoza $3,600,000.00
Keith Foulke $3,500,000.00
Byung-Hyun Kim $3,425,000.00
Kevin Millar $3,300,000.00
Scott Williamson $3,175,000.00
Alan Embree $3,000,000.00
Doug Mientkiewicz $2,800,000.00
Mike Timlin $2,500,000.00
Bill Mueller $2,100,000.00
Terry Adams $1,700,000.00
Orlando Cabrera $1,500,000.00
Curtis Leskanic $1,250,000.00
Pokey Reese $1,000,000.00
Dave Roberts $975,000.00
Doug Mirabelli $825,000.00
Ellis Burks $750,000.00
Gabe Kapler $750,000.00
Mike Myers $550,000.00
David McCarty $500,000.00
Mark Bellhorn $490,000.00
Bronson Arroyo $332,500.00
Abe Alvarez $300,000.00
Jamie Brown $300,000.00
Lenny DiNardo $300,000.00
Andy Dominique $300,000.00
Mark Malaska $300,000.00
Anastacio Martinez $300,000.00
Phil Seibel $300,000.00
Earl Snyder $300,000.00
Kevin Youkilis $300,000.00
BostonNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #31 (permalink)
Member
 
HadWayTooMuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonNut View Post
Who cares what the hell the 2004 team made?!? Manny, Pedro, Schilling, and Damon were the only "superstars" on that team. FranKonerko did an outstanding job that season. The way he managed the bullpen down the stretch was brillant. How he stick with Bellhorn no matter what was genius.

By your logic....if this season's Houston Astros had a payroll of $150 million FranKonerko would have led them to an undefeated season...
I'll repeat myself for the 100th time. Let's see him win with a $60million payroll. Then I'll be impressed. Until then, he's just another manager given an all star team that didn't screw it up.
HadWayTooMuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 11:44 AM   #32 (permalink)
Member
 
BostonNut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 11,850
Default

And I'll say it for the 101st time. What does it matter what guys make? So if Derek Jeter made $13 a year he would be unmanagable???

I don't understand why a high payroll = a bum on the street could manage a MLB team. Your logic makes NO SENSE.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
I'll repeat myself for the 100th time. Let's see him win with a $60million payroll. Then I'll be impressed. Until then, he's just another manager given an all star team that didn't screw it up.
BostonNut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 11:50 AM   #33 (permalink)
Member
 
HadWayTooMuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonNut View Post
And I'll say it for the 101st time. What does it matter what guys make? So if Derek Jeter made $13 a year he would be unmanagable???

I don't understand why a high payroll = a bum on the street could manage a MLB team. Your logic makes NO SENSE.
Seriously, you are saying payroll doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things? If that's true, why haven't KC and Pittsburgh been competitive for the past 20 years? Why are the MOST of the high payroll teams in the hunt ALMOST every year while the low payroll teams squeek in sporatically?

High payroll does not guarantee a world series appearance, but it certainly helps a ton.
HadWayTooMuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 12:42 PM   #34 (permalink)
Member
 
RedSoxFan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
I'll repeat myself for the 100th time. Let's see him win with a $60million payroll. Then I'll be impressed. Until then, he's just another manager given an all star team that didn't screw it up.
Let's see if any Yankees manager can win at a $60Million Payroll....
__________________
Baseball- Boston Red Sox, Football- New England Patriots, Basketball- Boston Celtics & OKC Thunder, Hockey- Boston Bruins
"I understand you live in Maine and idiocy,ignorance and stupidity is a part of daily life" - Gibberish (10/12/2012)
RedSoxFan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 01:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
Member
 
lambeauleap87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,640
Default

The Indians are, in all likelihood, going to be a giant pile of dogshit next year. Don't expect Francona to come in and make this a ninety win team. I do think that he is worth a few wins in 2013, but will be more effective as time goes on and the Indians can build a team.
__________________
"Opening Day is coming soon, and even Obama can't take that away."
Actively Looking For Jose Ramirez Cards/Memorabilia
I collect Packers, former Ohio State Buckeyes, Blue Jackets, and Indians.
lambeauleap87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 01:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
Member
 
RedSoxFan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lambeauleap87 View Post
The Indians are, in all likelihood, going to be a giant pile of dogshit next year. Don't expect Francona to come in and make this a ninety win team. I do think that he is worth a few wins in 2013, but will be more effective as time goes on and the Indians can build a team.
Agreed, Rome wasn't built in a day. Not saying the Indians will be a top team in the AL. But It'll take time and some productive offseasons/drafts for them to be contenders.
__________________
Baseball- Boston Red Sox, Football- New England Patriots, Basketball- Boston Celtics & OKC Thunder, Hockey- Boston Bruins
"I understand you live in Maine and idiocy,ignorance and stupidity is a part of daily life" - Gibberish (10/12/2012)
RedSoxFan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 01:43 PM   #37 (permalink)
Member
 
lambeauleap87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28 View Post
Agreed, Rome wasn't built in a day. Not saying the Indians will be a top team in the AL. But It'll take time and some productive offseasons/drafts for them to be contenders.
Exactly...it'll help that the contracts of Hafner and Sizemore should gone; that's around $18 million of payroll lifted from worthless players. Use that money, develop prospects, and see where it goes.

On the subject of Alomar, I'd love to see him manage the Indians AAA team in Columbus and bring Sarbaugh up to coach in Cleveland. Alomar has about six days of managing experience at any level.
__________________
"Opening Day is coming soon, and even Obama can't take that away."
Actively Looking For Jose Ramirez Cards/Memorabilia
I collect Packers, former Ohio State Buckeyes, Blue Jackets, and Indians.
lambeauleap87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2012, 04:34 PM   #38 (permalink)
Member
 
HadWayTooMuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28 View Post
Let's see if any Yankees manager can win at a $60Million Payroll....
That's kind of my point...
HadWayTooMuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 08:24 AM   #39 (permalink)
Member
 
RedSoxFan28's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,004
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
Cleveland will finish with 70-75 wins if they are lucky next year. Book it!

Francoma is a great manager when he has all stars at every position. Check out his work with a makeshift team (See late 1990s Phillies.)

Though he doesn't have to actually use strategy since he's in the AL so that will help.

Bad manager and you are going to see just how bad next year. Mark my words!
Cough Cough
__________________
Baseball- Boston Red Sox, Football- New England Patriots, Basketball- Boston Celtics & OKC Thunder, Hockey- Boston Bruins
"I understand you live in Maine and idiocy,ignorance and stupidity is a part of daily life" - Gibberish (10/12/2012)
RedSoxFan28 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 10:47 AM   #40 (permalink)
Member
 
HadWayTooMuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedSoxFan28 View Post
Cough Cough
I knew this would come back and bite me in the rear!


I'll say this, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while!
HadWayTooMuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 12:02 PM   #41 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: michigan
Posts: 4,913
Default

Watching Indians/Tigers games, Francona has been pretty brutal tactually.
__________________
Dan LeFevour PC 192/283
Looking for Detroit Tigers Autos/Jsys I don't have.
JustinVerlander07 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 12:30 PM   #42 (permalink)
Member
 
IamRalpho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
I knew this would come back and bite me in the rear!


I'll say this, even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while!
Except hes done it twice now; one with a big payroll team and now with the Indians.

Gotta think its more than luck now

....at least for the non believers. Any other year Francona is the MOY.
__________________
If you have under 25 iTrader feedback or any negative, I will ask you to send first
IamRalpho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 12:33 PM   #43 (permalink)
Member
 
HadWayTooMuch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern New Jersey
Posts: 4,246
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRalpho View Post
Except hes done it twice now; one with a big payroll team and now with the Indians.

Gotta think its more than luck now

....at least for the non believers. Any other year Francona is the MOY.
Let's not get too excited until the team gets into the playoffs.

If I had observed the Indians all year, I could say whether it's been the manager or the creampuff schedule. But since I haven't, I cannot be sure.
HadWayTooMuch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 12:49 PM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
IamRalpho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
Let's not get too excited until the team gets into the playoffs.

If I had observed the Indians all year, I could say whether it's been the manager or the creampuff schedule. But since I haven't, I cannot be sure.
They arent winning a title this year, but thats not the point. No one picked Cleveland to do much and they are on the verge of the playoffs.

Many reasons to get excited, many reasons for optimism.

Its a solid team, with a lot of talent that is coming together and has a great manager.
__________________
If you have under 25 iTrader feedback or any negative, I will ask you to send first
IamRalpho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 03:26 PM   #45 (permalink)
Member
 
hohlernr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Midland, MI
Posts: 1,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HadWayTooMuch View Post
Let's not get too excited until the team gets into the playoffs.

If I had observed the Indians all year, I could say whether it's been the manager or the creampuff schedule. But since I haven't, I cannot be sure.
I'm confused about the creampuff schedule? This isn't the NFL where a team could legitmately have a much easier schedule than another. Over the course of 162 games things tend to even themselves out and strengths of schedule are all relativly similar.
hohlernr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 04:18 PM   #46 (permalink)
Member
 
IamRalpho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,980
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hohlernr View Post
I'm confused about the creampuff schedule? This isn't the NFL where a team could legitmately have a much easier schedule than another. Over the course of 162 games things tend to even themselves out and strengths of schedule are all relativly similar.
Yup. I was going to add that too, but didnt even bother. Doesnt make sense, especially with 3/5 teams in the division are fighting/going to the playoffs.
__________________
If you have under 25 iTrader feedback or any negative, I will ask you to send first
IamRalpho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 05:22 PM   #47 (permalink)
Member
 
lambeauleap87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 10,640
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hohlernr View Post
I'm confused about the creampuff schedule? This isn't the NFL where a team could legitmately have a much easier schedule than another. Over the course of 162 games things tend to even themselves out and strengths of schedule are all relativly similar.
Games against teams with a record over .500 for teams in Wild Card contention:

Indians: 90
Rays: 93
Rangers: 78
Royals: 89

"Creampuff schedule" for the Tribe right there.
__________________
"Opening Day is coming soon, and even Obama can't take that away."
Actively Looking For Jose Ramirez Cards/Memorabilia
I collect Packers, former Ohio State Buckeyes, Blue Jackets, and Indians.
lambeauleap87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 05:26 PM   #48 (permalink)
Member
 
IamRalpho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 10,980
Default

Rays GM was just complaining about "other teams" schedules during the stretch run.

#IDIOT
__________________
If you have under 25 iTrader feedback or any negative, I will ask you to send first
IamRalpho is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #49 (permalink)
Member
 
Ziveus101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: The Empire State
Posts: 2,510
Default

In the event that Cleveland wins one of the wild cards, I hope they win that 1 game play-in game and then go on to play against Boston.
More than anything because of Francona vs the Red Sox. I can hear the Boston media already preparing tens of hundreds of narratives at this very moment for when/if that match-up actually happens.
__________________
Pandemonium Doesn't Reign Around Here, It Pours
Ziveus101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2013, 07:25 PM   #50 (permalink)
Member
 
DaveTaplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: West Gardiner, Me
Posts: 1,208
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziveus101 View Post
In the event that Cleveland wins one of the wild cards, I hope they win that 1 game play-in game and then go on to play against Boston.
More than anything because of Francona vs the Red Sox. I can hear the Boston media already preparing tens of hundreds of narratives at this very moment for when/if that match-up actually happens.
As I Red Sox fan I certainly hope they win, but if they are going to lose I wouldn't mind at all losing to Francona.
DaveTaplin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.