Blowout Cards Forums

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASEBALL

BASEBALL Post your Baseball Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2012, 10:34 AM   #26 (permalink)
Member
 
btimm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huntersville, NC
Posts: 1,578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterD View Post
Let's qualify this properly:

Justin Verlander is (by far) the best pitcher playing the game today.

As long as Nolan Ryan is still getting a paycheck from an MLB team, he is the best "in the game."

Agreed. Except he doesn't have Tim McCarver to yell at to "get his a$$ back behind the plate. You're a catcher... I don't want to talk to you!!!" That is a classic, hard-nosed dude.
As a Tigers fan, even I don't think it is by far. Kershaw and Felix are damn close.
btimm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:37 AM   #27 (permalink)
Member
 
calculusdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 8,259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterD View Post
Let's qualify this properly:

Justin Verlander is (by far) the best pitcher playing the game today.

As long as Nolan Ryan is still getting a paycheck from an MLB team, he is the best "in the game."

Agreed. Except he doesn't have Tim McCarver to yell at to "get his a$$ back behind the plate. You're a catcher... I don't want to talk to you!!!" That is a classic, hard-nosed dude.
LOL ... that's awesome. You mentioned Gibson as a hard-nosed player, reminded me of this about Nolan Ryan (from Wikipedia):

Quote:
Ryan's very durable arm finally gave out in Seattle on September 22, 1993, when he tore a ligament, ending his career two starts earlier than planned. Briefly attempting to pitch past the injury, Ryan threw one further pitch after tearing his ligament; with his injured arm, his final pitch was measured at 98 miles per hour.
Always makes me laugh. Nervously.
__________________
LOOKING FOR:

~~~~~~ GREG MADDUX - On-Card Autos in Braves Uniform ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ ALEX WOOD - 2013 Bowman Chrome/Draft Color (#/25 or less) ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ JORDAN SCHAFER - 2008 Bowman Chrome / 2009 Topps Chrome Autos & Color ~~~~~~
calculusdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 10:41 AM   #28 (permalink)
Member
 
calculusdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 8,259
Default

I always stumble into these threads and I never know why. Guess what ... Verlander might be the best pitcher in the game. But no pitcher has been "a mile" better than every other active pitcher since Pedro Martinez in 2000.
__________________
LOOKING FOR:

~~~~~~ GREG MADDUX - On-Card Autos in Braves Uniform ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ ALEX WOOD - 2013 Bowman Chrome/Draft Color (#/25 or less) ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ JORDAN SCHAFER - 2008 Bowman Chrome / 2009 Topps Chrome Autos & Color ~~~~~~
calculusdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:36 AM   #29 (permalink)
Member
 
ScooterD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimm View Post
As a Tigers fan, even I don't think it is by far. Kershaw and Felix are damn close.
While I think both of them are very good, until either/both of them put up the numbers and earn the hardware that Verlander has, I don't think they approximate that level. Just my opinion tho
ScooterD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
Member
 
btimm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huntersville, NC
Posts: 1,578
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterD View Post
While I think both of them are very good, until either/both of them put up the numbers and earn the hardware that Verlander has, I don't think they approximate that level. Just my opinion tho
Ummmm, they have? Kershaw and Felix both have Cy Young Awards. And if it wasn't for nonsensical wins stat, Verlander wouldn't have an MVP. So I don't see your logic here.
btimm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:51 AM   #31 (permalink)
Member
 
JohnAndrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ZOO York!
Posts: 5,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterD View Post
While I think both of them are very good, until either/both of them put up the numbers and earn the hardware that Verlander has, I don't think they approximate that level. Just my opinion tho
Well all three of 'em have one CYA under their belt. Justin has the MVP and the ROY as well and *should* add another CYA this year (I like Price...but he's no Verlander).

I can't wait to see wait Kershaw will have done in 5 years. As of right now:

24 years old
974 Ks in 944 innings (9.29 Ks per 9 IP)
2.79 Career ERA

My head tells me he probably deserves the CYA this year, as well...but my heart tells me it should go to Dickey.

It's scary to think if there's any more upside with this guy...!
__________________
Fan of the Yankees and Syracuse Hoops.
JohnAndrew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:53 AM   #32 (permalink)
Member
 
calculusdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 8,259
Default

Yeah, Verlander hasn't quite yet earned the "greatest pitcher of all time OMG" award yet. He's dominant, but thus far in his career his playoff stats are atrocious, as I think another member pointed out.

So maybe he is the "best in the game right now" ... but what does that even mean? I could have said that about Phil Humber after his perfect game.
__________________
LOOKING FOR:

~~~~~~ GREG MADDUX - On-Card Autos in Braves Uniform ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ ALEX WOOD - 2013 Bowman Chrome/Draft Color (#/25 or less) ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ JORDAN SCHAFER - 2008 Bowman Chrome / 2009 Topps Chrome Autos & Color ~~~~~~
calculusdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:56 AM   #33 (permalink)
Member
 
Zoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 5,501
Default

I love Verlander but let's leave the Gibby comparison until his career playoff numbers resemble at least Chris Carpenter.

That said, yeah, easily the best in the game.
__________________
Bucket: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v288/ZoopSoul/Trading%20Cards/
Super Bowl Champion Seahawks fan since 1997. St. Louis Cardinal fan. John Smoltz collector. Garbage Pail Kids expert. Occasional smart-ass, rarely a dumbass.
Twitter: ZoopSoul
Zoop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 11:59 AM   #34 (permalink)
Member
 
ScooterD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: College Park, MD
Posts: 991
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimm View Post
Ummmm, they have? Kershaw and Felix both have Cy Young Awards. And if it wasn't for nonsensical wins stat, Verlander wouldn't have an MVP. So I don't see your logic here.
Like I said... it's just my opinion that neither Felix nor Kershaw are as good as Verlander right now. I based that opinion on how I interpretted the facts. It may be wrong and my logic may be faulty. The MVP-award can be rationalized by whomever is doing the analysis, but the fact is that neither Kershaw nor Felix have been awarded one yet. I, too, think wins are nonsensical as a stat, but unless you have seen the MVP ballots from last year (I know I haven't), you don't KNOW that he was given the award JUST because of # of wins. You may believe that (and you may be correct), but you don't KNOW it.
ScooterD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:01 PM   #35 (permalink)
Member
 
TASS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 4,457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimm View Post
You mean the same A's that were a top 5 offense post AS break?
Based on there schedule after the AS break I think some of the stats were inflated, let's be honest that lineup was a group that happened to 'jell' at the right time, and I'm not knocking what they accomplished (which was quite impressive based on who they have) but guy's like Reddick and Moss clearly had 'career years'

All I am saying is the ALCS will be more of a challenge for Verlander weather he is facing Det. or NY who have far more experienced lineups IMO (though they have both been well below avg. to this point)

Verlander is the best pitcher in the AL now, and his performance in the next round will have to be as good as his last start, and your only as good as your next game!
TASS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:08 PM   #36 (permalink)
Member
 
btimm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Huntersville, NC
Posts: 1,578
Default

Come on calculusdork, playoffs are absurdly small sample size
btimm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:09 PM   #37 (permalink)
Member
 
Zoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 5,501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by btimm View Post
Come on calculusdork, playoffs are absurdly small sample size
And the reason the game is played in the first place.
__________________
Bucket: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v288/ZoopSoul/Trading%20Cards/
Super Bowl Champion Seahawks fan since 1997. St. Louis Cardinal fan. John Smoltz collector. Garbage Pail Kids expert. Occasional smart-ass, rarely a dumbass.
Twitter: ZoopSoul
Zoop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:19 PM   #38 (permalink)
Member
 
TASS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: RI
Posts: 4,457
Default

btimm: Come on calculusdork, playoffs are absurdly small sample size
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoop View Post
And the reason the game is played in the first place.
LMFAO!!
TASS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:27 PM   #39 (permalink)
Member
 
Zoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 5,501
Default

It just drives me nuts when people think of baseball strictly in math, not realizing people with feelings are the ones playing this game. What Verlander did yesterday was utterly incredible. Starting an elimination game on the road and having a CG SO while those fans cheer your every mistake... Some pitchers can't take that, regardless of how talented they are. The lives of all your teammates can be altered--their legacies forever changed--if you fail. If Chris Carpentered failed in Philadelphia last year, David Freese would be the schlub the Cardinals traded Jim Edmonds for; instead, he has a key to the city.

It's fun to pretend robots who're comprised solely of numbers play this game, but that's all it is: pretend. Human beings play the game and human beings get rattled in high pressure situations. Ever had the President of your company arrive and give you a disgusted look? Me neither, but I'd **** my pants if s/he did.
__________________
Bucket: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v288/ZoopSoul/Trading%20Cards/
Super Bowl Champion Seahawks fan since 1997. St. Louis Cardinal fan. John Smoltz collector. Garbage Pail Kids expert. Occasional smart-ass, rarely a dumbass.
Twitter: ZoopSoul
Zoop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:41 PM   #40 (permalink)
Member
 
zonacats8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,654
Default

Everyone talking about his playoff stats must seem to br forgetting that this is only his third postseason. The first he was a rookie, understandable that he had a bit of a rough go at it then, and last year the numbers don't tell the whole story as I've never seen one pitcher have to deal with the conditions and situations he had to put up with. Every game he pitched last year was in a horrible rain as well as having to deal with multiple rain delays and even had one game postponed
__________________
PC: Carolina Panthers and University of Arizona players, especially in UofA uniform
Jonathan Stewart PC: http://s1158.photobucket.com/albums/p615/ZonaCats8/Jonathan%20Stewart%20PC/?start=all
Star Lotulelei PC: http://sportscardalbum.com/u/zonacats8/a/star-lotulelei-pc

Last edited by zonacats8; 10-12-2012 at 12:51 PM.
zonacats8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:48 PM   #41 (permalink)
Member
 
Zoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 5,501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zonacats8 View Post
Everyone talking about his playoff stats must seem to br forgetting that this is only his third postseason. The first he was a rookie, understandable that he had a bit of a rough go at it then, and last year the numbers don't tell the whole story as I've never seen one pitcher have to deal with the conditions and situations he had to put up with. Every game he pitcher last year was in a horrible rain as well as having to deal with multiple rain delays and even had one game postponed
I'm not forgetting that. I'm saying comparing him to Bob Gibson is silly because one playoff success doesn't equate to what Gibby did. Can he turn into a Gibby? Absolutely! Dude is the best pitcher in baseball who is seemingly unstoppable in terms of endurance for a power pitcher, and he is like 30 years old. Uncanny. But let's wait several wins and World Series victories before we spout off premature hyperbole.

EDIT: Also, look at the number of Gibby's playoff year appearances. Just sayin'.
__________________
Bucket: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v288/ZoopSoul/Trading%20Cards/
Super Bowl Champion Seahawks fan since 1997. St. Louis Cardinal fan. John Smoltz collector. Garbage Pail Kids expert. Occasional smart-ass, rarely a dumbass.
Twitter: ZoopSoul
Zoop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #42 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,032
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mainerunr View Post
While I agree he is a beast, looking at his post season record, I am not sure why anyone would be so confident about the results before the game was played. His post season numbers are mediocre at best.

I realize that it is a small sample size and what he does this year could significantly change his numbers but ALCS (3 games) 2-1, 5.94 ERA and a 1.56 WHIP, WS, 0-2, 5.73, 1.54WHIP. Heck, ALDS before this year was 1-0 in 3 games with a 5.03 ERA and a 1.54WHIP.
wow I never looked at his post season numbers. If he continues to pitch these numbers in the post season it wont matter how good of a regular season pitcher he is because all that matters is championships.
Lastminute73 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:00 PM   #43 (permalink)
Member
 
Tugarpj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Detroit....well close enough
Posts: 5,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lastminute73 View Post
wow I never looked at his post season numbers. If he continues to pitch these numbers in the post season it wont matter how good of a regular season pitcher he is because all that matters is championships.
Bwahahaha. Lame. NO ONE remembers Ryan's post season numbers. 27 year career and 1 trip to the show. And that when he was 22. He's still a God, and so is and will be Verlander.
Tugarpj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
zonacats8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Detroit
Posts: 10,654
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugarpj View Post
Bwahahaha. Lame. NO ONE remembers Ryan's post season numbers. 27 year career and 1 trip to the show. And that when he was 22. He's still a God, and so is and will be Verlander.
How did he only make 8 all star games and never won a CY Young award?
__________________
PC: Carolina Panthers and University of Arizona players, especially in UofA uniform
Jonathan Stewart PC: http://s1158.photobucket.com/albums/p615/ZonaCats8/Jonathan%20Stewart%20PC/?start=all
Star Lotulelei PC: http://sportscardalbum.com/u/zonacats8/a/star-lotulelei-pc
zonacats8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:08 PM   #45 (permalink)
Member
 
JohnAndrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ZOO York!
Posts: 5,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zonacats8 View Post
How did he only make 8 all star games and never won a CY Young award?
I don't know, but he walked a helluva lot of hitters.
__________________
Fan of the Yankees and Syracuse Hoops.
JohnAndrew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:14 PM   #46 (permalink)
Member
 
Tugarpj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Detroit....well close enough
Posts: 5,335
Default

Minus the juice I don't think Ryan was half the pitcher Clemons was.
Tugarpj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 01:55 PM   #47 (permalink)
Member
 
calculusdork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 8,259
Default

For those who said the playoffs are a small sample size ... well of course! My point is that one game does not a great pitcher make. Once again - Phil Humber.

Verlander has accomplished a great deal more than just last night's game. In that regard, a comparison to Humber or whomever is absurd. I just get ... bothered ... when people say a pitcher like Verlander is "miles" better than everyone else. Great pitcher? Best in the game? Yeah, I'd say so. But not that much better, or more dominant, than Kershaw, King Felix, and a couple others.

Seriously, this is not Pedro 2000.
__________________
LOOKING FOR:

~~~~~~ GREG MADDUX - On-Card Autos in Braves Uniform ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ ALEX WOOD - 2013 Bowman Chrome/Draft Color (#/25 or less) ~~~~~~
~~~~~~ JORDAN SCHAFER - 2008 Bowman Chrome / 2009 Topps Chrome Autos & Color ~~~~~~
calculusdork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 02:03 PM   #48 (permalink)
Member
 
Zoop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 5,501
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calculusdork View Post
For those who said the playoffs are a small sample size ... well of course! My point is that one game does not a great pitcher make. Once again - Phil Humber.

Verlander has accomplished a great deal more than just last night's game. In that regard, a comparison to Humber or whomever is absurd. I just get ... bothered ... when people say a pitcher like Verlander is "miles" better than everyone else. Great pitcher? Best in the game? Yeah, I'd say so. But not that much better, or more dominant, than Kershaw, King Felix, and a couple others.

Seriously, this is not Pedro 2000.
Or Maddux circa mid-90s. Crazy to think his ERA was 1.56 in 1994.
__________________
Bucket: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v288/ZoopSoul/Trading%20Cards/
Super Bowl Champion Seahawks fan since 1997. St. Louis Cardinal fan. John Smoltz collector. Garbage Pail Kids expert. Occasional smart-ass, rarely a dumbass.
Twitter: ZoopSoul
Zoop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 02:03 PM   #49 (permalink)
Member
 
JohnAndrew's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ZOO York!
Posts: 5,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by calculusdork View Post
Seriously, this is not Pedro 2000.
I hope I see another Pedro 2000 year in my lifetime!
__________________
Fan of the Yankees and Syracuse Hoops.
JohnAndrew is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2012, 02:42 PM   #50 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,064
Default

Not even any talk of Jered Weaver? You guys are crazy. Outside of K's and barely ERA Weaver beat out Verlander in all the other main categories. Verlander is amazing no doubt but Weaver is just as dominant.
__________________
Looking for: 97-98 SP Authentic Profiles, 98-99 SPX Finite Spectrum, & Rare Clippers Cards

PANINI = CHEAPSKATES: http://youtu.be/rsSq7QqpUto
clipperboy24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.