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Old 10-15-2012, 01:56 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zoop View Post
Did his velocity ever improve? That was his biggest problem, if I recall correctly.
His problem was he couldn't consistently throw strikes. Velocity hindered him a little but not that big of a problem.
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Old 10-15-2012, 02:58 PM   #27 (permalink)
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yeah...pretty sure it was locating the strike zone consistantly that got him into trouble this year.

His K/9 was actually higher this year than last year (which was his lowest in his career).

But in the few games I got to watch, it seemed to be a case of him walking someone followed by serving up a longball as he sent a pitch straight down the middle of the plate as he tried to find the strike zone...

His HR/9 was 1.1 compared to .6 last year..
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Old 10-15-2012, 03:09 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Wow, hard to believe a Dodgers fan pull for the Giants.How did Matheny mismanage the bullpen?And how did Mujica get the win when Kelly cleaned up Lynn's mess when it was 6-4?
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Gotcha. Hoping Lincecum turns it around next year.

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Wow, hard to believe a Dodgers fan pull for the Giants.How did Matheny mismanage the bullpen?And how did Mujica get the win when Kelly cleaned up Lynn's mess when it was 6-4?
Using Kelly, a long-reliever/spot starter, for four batters in a game that could've easily been tied; not warming anyone up during Lynn's meltdown; Kelly having 10-ish warm-up pitches before being called into the game, etc. Luckily it didn't hurt us in the end but man, what a rookie mistake.
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Old 10-15-2012, 04:17 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zoop View Post
Gotcha. Hoping Lincecum turns it around next year.



Using Kelly, a long-reliever/spot starter, for four batters in a game that could've easily been tied; not warming anyone up during Lynn's meltdown; Kelly having 10-ish warm-up pitches before being called into the game, etc. Luckily it didn't hurt us in the end but man, what a rookie mistake.
Agreed, I was surprised by this too.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:07 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Zoop View Post
Gotcha. Hoping Lincecum turns it around next year.



Using Kelly, a long-reliever/spot starter, for four batters in a game that could've easily been tied; not warming anyone up during Lynn's meltdown; Kelly having 10-ish warm-up pitches before being called into the game, etc. Luckily it didn't hurt us in the end but man, what a rookie mistake.
Who else was he supposed to put in?Too early to use Boggs and Mujica.Miller and Rosenthal are spot starters too.I guess Salas could have been an option, but Kelly can strike hitters out.I will say he is a bit slow to get the bullpen up when the starters get in trouble early.I thought he left Wainwright in too long in Game 5 of the NLDS when it was 6-0 when he finally took him out.When it was 4-0 and Wainwright was obviously not sharp, another reliever should have been in.

Not that it really matters, but I still don't get why Mujica got the win.Kelly should have gotten it.
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Old 10-16-2012, 02:23 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Who else was he supposed to put in?Too early to use Boggs and Mujica.Miller and Rosenthal are spot starters too.I guess Salas could have been an option, but Kelly can strike hitters out.I will say he is a bit slow to get the bullpen up when the starters get in trouble early.I thought he left Wainwright in too long in Game 5 of the NLDS when it was 6-0 when he finally took him out.When it was 4-0 and Wainwright was obviously not sharp, another reliever should have been in.

Not that it really matters, but I still don't get why Mujica got the win.Kelly should have gotten it.
Rosenthal isn't a spot starter. He's been used as one-to-two innings of relief since being called up. He was who they should have went with. Also, he strikes out hitters better than Kelly due to his 100 mph fastball.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:13 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Not that it really matters, but I still don't get why Mujica got the win.Kelly should have gotten it.


I'm not exactly sure of the exact rule from the baseball rulebook to reference here but while I was watching the game, the announcers indicated that the W was at the discretion of the official scorer as to who to give it to.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that it would normally go to Lynn but since he didn't go 5 as a starter, he isn't eligible. Additionally no other pitcher is eligible because they weren't in the game at the time their team took the lead.

I guess in that scenario, the official scorrer gets to decide who deserves it more and he must have decided that Mujica did the better job.

Personally, I believe the rule that a starter must go 5 to get a W should be suspended for post-season play when managers yank them at the first sign of trouble.


edit - decided to lookup the rule. I was correct as to why the scorrer gets to choose. I've bolded the part that explains why Mujica gets the W.

Quote:
10.17 WINNING AND LOSING PITCHER
(a) The official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose team
assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on offense in
which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish such lead,
unless
(1) such pitcher is a starting pitcher and Rule 10.17(b) applies; or
(2) Rule 10.17(c) applies.
Rule 10.17(a) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest
insofar as the winning pitcher is concerned. Once the opposing team assumes the lead, all pitchers who
have pitched up to that point and have been replaced are excluded from being credited with the victory.
If the pitcher against whose pitching the opposing team gained the lead continues to pitch until his
team regains the lead, which it holds to the finish of the game, that pitcher shall be the winning pitcher.
(b) If the pitcher whose team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or
during the inning on offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and
does not relinquish such lead, is a starting pitcher who has not completed
110
Rule 10.16 to 10.17
(1) five innings of a game that lasts six or more innings on defense, or
(2) four innings of a game that lasts five innings on defense,
then the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher the relief pitcher, if there
is only one relief pitcher, or the relief pitcher who, in the official scorer’s judgment
was the most effective, if there is more than one relief pitcher.
Rule 10.17(b) Comment: It is the intent of Rule 10.17(b) that a relief pitcher pitch at least one
complete inning or pitch when a crucial out is made, within the context of the game (including the score),
in order to be credited as the winning pitcher. If the first relief pitcher pitches effectively, the official
scorer should not presumptively credit that pitcher with the win, because the rule requires that the win be
credited to the pitcher who was the most effective, and a subsequent relief pitcher may have been most
effective. The official scorer, in determining which relief pitcher was the most effective, should consider
the number of runs, earned runs and base runners given up by each relief pitcher and the context of the
game at the time of each relief pitcher’s appearance. If two or more relief pitchers were similarly
effective, the official scorer should give the presumption to the earlier pitcher as the winning pitcher.

(c) The official scorer shall not credit as the winning pitcher a relief pitcher who is
ineffective in a brief appearance, when at least one succeeding relief pitcher pitches
effectively in helping his team maintain its lead. In such a case, the official scorer
shall credit as the winning pitcher the succeeding relief pitcher who was most
effective, in the judgment of the official scorer.
Rule 10.17(c) Comment: The official scorer generally should, but is not required to, consider
the appearance of a relief pitcher to be ineffective and brief if such relief pitcher pitches less than one
inning and allows two or more earned runs to score (even if such runs are charged to a previous
pitcher). Rule 10.17(b) Comment provides guidance on choosing the winning pitcher from among
several succeeding relief pitchers.
(d) A losing pitcher is a pitcher who is responsible for the run that gives the winning
team a lead that the winning team does not relinquish.
Rule 10.17(d) Comment: Whenever the score is tied, the game becomes a new contest
insofar as the losing pitcher is concerned.
(e) A league may designate a non-championship game (for example, the Major League
All-Star Game) for which Rules 10.17(a)(1) and 10.17(b) do not apply. In such
games, the official scorer shall credit as the winning pitcher that pitcher whose
team assumes a lead while such pitcher is in the game, or during the inning on
offense in which such pitcher is removed from the game, and does not relinquish
such lead, unless such pitcher is knocked out after the winning team has attained a
111
Rule 10.17
commanding lead and the official scorer concludes that a subsequent pitcher is
entitled to credit as the winning pitcher.
Mujica's line (1IP 3K) is far better than either Kelly's line (1IP 1H 1BB) or Rosenthal's line (1IP 1BB 1K)

Last edited by kinar; 10-16-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 10-16-2012, 03:38 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinar View Post
I'm not exactly sure of the exact rule from the baseball rulebook to reference here but while I was watching the game, the announcers indicated that the W was at the discretion of the official scorer as to who to give it to.

I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that it would normally go to Lynn but since he didn't go 5 as a starter, he isn't eligible. Additionally no other pitcher is eligible because they weren't in the game at the time their team took the lead.

I guess in that scenario, the official scorrer gets to decide who deserves it more and he must have decided that Mujica did the better job.

Personally, I believe the rule that a starter must go 5 to get a W should be suspended for post-season play when managers yank them at the first sign of trouble.


edit - decided to lookup the rule. I was correct as to why the scorrer gets to choose. I've bolded the part that explains why Mujica gets the W.



Mujica's line (1IP 3K) is far better than either Kelly's line (1IP 1H 1BB) or Rosenthal's line (1IP 1BB 1K)
Thanks for the explanation.While Mujica had a clean inning, it was still Kelly that got out of Lynn's mess (yes I know he gave up a hit and a walk), and in my opinion, was more deserving of the win.Giants had a lot of momentum at that point.
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Old 10-16-2012, 08:32 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kinar View Post
yeah...pretty sure it was locating the strike zone consistantly that got him into trouble this year.

His K/9 was actually higher this year than last year (which was his lowest in his career).

But in the few games I got to watch, it seemed to be a case of him walking someone followed by serving up a longball as he sent a pitch straight down the middle of the plate as he tried to find the strike zone...

His HR/9 was 1.1 compared to .6 last year..

the big problem this year was that he had such a hard time switching from regular delivery to in the stretch. Inning by inning even by his bad starts most of the innings were Timmy looking like his Cy Young self and dominating but he'd also have an inning where he'd walk someone or get a hit and have to switch himself into the stretch and the big innings would come
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