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Old 12-06-2012, 06:40 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Cleveland, Minn. & KC Fans

I have enjoyed reading your individuial posts pertaining to your respective teams and involvement with FA.

You guy's are all true fans who each and every year support your teams and look for that potential 'silver lining' from whatever your organization may or may not do on your behalf! And that there lies a true fan base, as it has got to be difficult to find any positives for organizations that have such limited capital in this era of 'Free Agency' and have virtually no chance to land any of the marquee players available.

Your continued support for your teams is really a testament to the word 'FAN', and I can only hope for on your behalfs that your owners reward you with at least a competitve team as they should.

I started this thread as a result of reading all the comments from my fellow 'bigger' market teams fan bases who are complaining of over spending for there current signings, and wondered how you guy's deal with all the BS that I'm sure you wish your respective teams could actually be a part of.

Good luck this season and look forward to your individuial responses! And Indians fans I know you have had more recent success than the other 2 organizations but have had a run of some lean years more recently.

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Old 12-06-2012, 06:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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all I have to say about this.......
.....GO BRAVES!!!!
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Finding the silver lining has become habit for us twins fans
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:59 PM   #4 (permalink)
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The Twins fans do have 1987 and 1991 to fall back on. It seems like only yesterday.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:02 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I don't know if I would necessarily put the Twins in the same category as the Royals and Indians recently. Yeah we've had 2 straight 95+ loss seasons, but before that (although not WS competitive) we won something like 6 division titles in 10 years.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The Twins fans do have 1987 and 1991 to fall back on. It seems like only yesterday.
And your still backing your team regardless!
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As a hard-core Twins fan (also a strong Dodgers fan as well), I don't wish they would go out a spend above and beyond what a player is really worth. Bigger markets have bigger payrolls, but that guarantees nothing and most of the time that just barely gets them into the playoffs. Look at last years playoff teams. Nationals, A's, Orioles, and others are in the playoffs with payrolls much lower than $100 M while teams like the Sox, Phils and others not only don't get to a .500 record, but a losing season. I'd much rather build a winning team for within rather than just going out and just buying players to fill a hole. Twins did a pretty good job of that in the last 10 years, winning the division 6 times, plus having 2 WS trophies in the case by doing that.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:04 PM   #8 (permalink)
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The Royals have been slowly building a solid team. They've got a great bullpen (even without Joakim Soria I'm pretty confident the bullpen will be great) and nice lineup, all KC needs is a true ace starter to compete. It would be a dream come true for me if the Royals came out of nowhere and signed Zack Greinke (not gonna happen though )
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:06 PM   #9 (permalink)
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And your still backing your team regardless!
Sox fans had to back their team for over 80 years to win a WS title. Twins are going on 20 so we have a few years to go.....
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:07 PM   #10 (permalink)
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As a hard-core Twins fan (also a strong Dodgers fan as well), I don't wish they would go out a spend above and beyond what a player is really worth. Bigger markets have bigger payrolls, but that guarantees nothing and most of the time that just barely gets them into the playoffs. Look at last years playoff teams. Nationals, A's, Orioles, and others are in the playoffs with payrolls much lower than $100 M while teams like the Sox, Phils and others not only don't get to a .500 record, but a losing season. I'd much rather build a winning team for within rather than just going out and just buying players to fill a hole. Twins did a pretty good job of that in the last 10 years, winning the division 6 times, plus having 2 WS trophies in the case by doing that.
I should have been more specific and used the last 5 years as the baseline, but I agree with the building through your own system, but in this era is that enough to get you in the playoffs and beyond without spending money on 1 or 2 necessary FA?
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:09 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Sox fans had to back their team for over 80 years to win a WS title. Twins are going on 20 so we have a few years to go.....
This Sox fan spent 40+ of those 80 years waiting, so hang in there 20 years is nothing!
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:12 PM   #12 (permalink)
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The Royals have been slowly building a solid team. They've got a great bullpen (even without Joakim Soria I'm pretty confident the bullpen will be great) and nice lineup, all KC needs is a true ace starter to compete. It would be a dream come true for me if the Royals came out of nowhere and signed Zack Greinke (not gonna happen though )
And that's the issue it's who can afford! And that Greinke contract is going to be disgusting.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I should have been more specific and used the last 5 years as the baseline, but I agree with the building through your own system, but in this era is that enough to get you in the playoffs and beyond without spending money on 1 or 2 necessary FA?
Absolutely not. Obviously you need to go out and spend some money on a few guys that can push you over the top to win a championship. I like the Nats as an example. When they first moved to Washington, let's be honest, they sucked. By drafting and building within, they have a great core of young guys ready to win now and in the future. They still have to go out a spend some money and pick up a few guys along the way to help them out like Span, Haren, etc. Going out in 1 offseason and spending 100 M on a couple guys and expecting to win right away, well that is just plain dumb. That is what a lot of bigger market teams are doing, like the Angels. They signed Wilson, Pujols, and traded for Grienke, but they didn't even win their own division or make the playoffs.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Absolutely not. Obviously you need to go out and spend some money on a few guys that can push you over the top to win a championship. I like the Nats as an example. When they first moved to Washington, let's be honest, they sucked. By drafting and building within, they have a great core of young guys ready to win now and in the future. They still have to go out a spend some money and pick up a few guys along the way to help them out like Span, Haren, etc. Going out in 1 offseason and spending 100 M on a couple guys and expecting to win right away, well that is just plain dumb. That is what a lot of bigger market teams are doing, like the Angels. They signed Wilson, Pujols, and traded for Grienke, but they didn't even win their own division or make the playoffs.
The Nats are a great example of what an organization can do from within along with 'smart' spending. You just don't see enough teams with actual team 'chemistry' anymore, and that's what they got!
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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And that's the issue it's who can afford! And that Greinke contract is going to be disgusting.
It's not really who can afford it, but who chooses to do it. Twins owner Jim Polad is like the 9 richest owner in MLB, higher than owners of the Yankees, Cubs, Phillies, Braves. If that was the case, the Twins would probably making offers to Hamilton, Grienke, among other top players to fix weak pitching staff and hopefully try to win right away. Instead, they are taking the logically plan and rebuilding and trying to contend in a couple of years from now.
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:31 PM   #16 (permalink)
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And that's the issue it's who can afford! And that Greinke contract is going to be disgusting.
It's definitely gonna be bigger than CC's $161Mil contract. Greinke is just as good a pitcher as Sabathia but he can also play Gold Glove caliber defense. He also doesn't have a injury history except for when he broke his rib playing basketball in 2011 during spring training.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:45 PM   #17 (permalink)
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How am I still an Indians fan? I don't know, to be honest...our GM doesn't seem to have any clue what he's doing and our owners are some of the worst in baseball. It's so nice to have hope...until June. But I've loved the Indians since I was little (grandparents used to have season tickets), and I always will be.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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GO TWINS! We traded our outfield in a week but moving forward!
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:20 PM   #19 (permalink)
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From Bonilla to Madoff, we have seen it all. Is like we have had a right to fail since 1987... Lets go Mets!!!
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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GO TWINS! We traded our outfield in a week but moving forward!
Only 2 guys so far, but Willingham will probably be next. I like the direction the Twins are headed, if all these guys pan out, we can be some serious contenders in a few years.
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:34 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Been a Royals fan since 74. Went to the very first playoff game at Royals Stadium back in 76. George Brett, Amos Otis and Al Cowens were my favorite players. When Kauffman was alive he spent just enough to keep us in contention from 75 through 85. With his death, the team started shedding salaries and kept trading away star talent for crap talent. Hopefully Glass will finally open his billion dollar billfold and keep the talent in K.C. and bring in more star players. I see the Royals playoff bound within 2 to 3 years.

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I have been an Indians fan for all my life. I have seen that awful years of the 80's and early 90's when you would be lucky if there was 5,000 in attendance unless there was a promotion. I enjoyed the glory years of the mid 90's and the murderer's row lineup that we had. If we had better pitching, I think you could make the argument that we would have won 2 championships. I still have nightmares for 97 Series and Edgar Renteria and Moises Alou who killed us.

The 2000's haven't been much to brag about with the exception of 2007. That is because of one Larry Dolan. A guy who dreamed about owning a baseball team but I guess never went further into the dream as to how to actually run one. As far as I am concerned he is as cheap as they come. Year after year, he refuses to put money into the team and stay competitive. They sign washed up players and hope for a flash in the bottle and if it doesn't happen, they get rid of them. Instead of putting money into players, it goes to repairs to The Jake (It will ALWAYS be The Jake) and trying to enhance the fan experience (or what they think would enhance it).

Problem is the die hard fans don't care about worthless promotions and whatever else they come up with. We just want a competitive team on the field that we can be proud of. We have a few pieces now in Kipnis, Santana, Chisenhall, Asdrubal, etc. but they will eventually get traded for prospects or just leave b/c we won't pay the big bucks that it costs to keep them.

My father is in his mid 60's and has seen a lot of awful baseball. His only wish is to see the Indians win the World Series before he dies. At this point, I don't like the chances of that happening.

Of course, its not just baseball when it comes to Cleveland but I won't get into that. Sorry for the long rant but it helps the pain...
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:02 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I have been an Indians fan for all my life. I have seen that awful years of the 80's and early 90's when you would be lucky if there was 5,000 in attendance unless there was a promotion. I enjoyed the glory years of the mid 90's and the murderer's row lineup that we had. If we had better pitching, I think you could make the argument that we would have won 2 championships. I still have nightmares for 97 Series and Edgar Renteria and Moises Alou who killed us.

The 2000's haven't been much to brag about with the exception of 2007. That is because of one Larry Dolan. A guy who dreamed about owning a baseball team but I guess never went further into the dream as to how to actually run one. As far as I am concerned he is as cheap as they come. Year after year, he refuses to put money into the team and stay competitive. They sign washed up players and hope for a flash in the bottle and if it doesn't happen, they get rid of them. Instead of putting money into players, it goes to repairs to The Jake (It will ALWAYS be The Jake) and trying to enhance the fan experience (or what they think would enhance it).

Problem is the die hard fans don't care about worthless promotions and whatever else they come up with. We just want a competitive team on the field that we can be proud of. We have a few pieces now in Kipnis, Santana, Chisenhall, Asdrubal, etc. but they will eventually get traded for prospects or just leave b/c we won't pay the big bucks that it costs to keep them.

My father is in his mid 60's and has seen a lot of awful baseball. His only wish is to see the Indians win the World Series before he dies. At this point, I don't like the chances of that happening.

Of course, its not just baseball when it comes to Cleveland but I won't get into that. Sorry for the long rant but it helps the pain...
This is the type of emotion I was hoping to evoke in this thread, and is what I would expect from a life long fan who has had the tradition of being a 'loyal' follower handed down through generations!

It's a fan base like yours in Cleveland that you would expect GOOD ownership to at the very least act as if they give a #@#@#@#@, and make an attempt to reward that loyalty, but unfortunately in their eyes it's merely playing out the season year after year knowing you folks are going to continue to attend the games.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:20 PM   #24 (permalink)
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This is the type of emotion I was hoping to evoke in this thread, and is what I would expect from a life long fan who has had the tradition of being a 'loyal' follower handed down through generations!

It's a fan base like yours in Cleveland that you would expect GOOD ownership to at the very least act as if they give a #@#@#@#@, and make an attempt to reward that loyalty, but unfortunately in their eyes it's merely playing out the season year after year knowing you folks are going to continue to attend the games.
Yeah you would think that would be the case but when you have so much money that it blocks the common sense part of your brain, it just doesn't happen.

My Dad was a season ticket holder for about 20 yrs and when they went through their last fire sale (cliff lee, victor etc.) he turned in his tickets. No reason to spend are hard earned money on this stuff if they won't use it to get better talent. We probably went to 30+ games every year (including 1 road game). Now we're lucky if we go to 5-10. But since we only go to a few, we make sure we get good seats so we get our money's worth.

I think they are still ticked that the Browns have such a following and are usually horrible yr after yr. But this is a blue collar town and they are passionate about their sports. Fact of the matter is, if you spend the money to bring in the talent, people will show up.

But when you do interviews and say things like "if you go to the park to see them win, don't come" or say that you look to compete every 5 yrs, you will lose fans left and right. They care about everything else except what is important to the fans. All they care about is what will make them money and keep money in their pockets.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:40 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Yeah you would think that would be the case but when you have so much money that it blocks the common sense part of your brain, it just doesn't happen.

My Dad was a season ticket holder for about 20 yrs and when they went through their last fire sale (cliff lee, victor etc.) he turned in his tickets. No reason to spend are hard earned money on this stuff if they won't use it to get better talent. We probably went to 30+ games every year (including 1 road game). Now we're lucky if we go to 5-10. But since we only go to a few, we make sure we get good seats so we get our money's worth.

I think they are still ticked that the Browns have such a following and are usually horrible yr after yr. But this is a blue collar town and they are passionate about their sports. Fact of the matter is, if you spend the money to bring in the talent, people will show up.

But when you do interviews and say things like "if you go to the park to see them win, don't come" or say that you look to compete every 5 yrs, you will lose fans left and right. They care about everything else except what is important to the fans. All they care about is what will make them money and keep money in their pockets.
I have never received as much marketing BS than I have this year in relation to my Red Sox 2013 ticket package, since they sent out invoices I have received an email or two every day trying to make the off-season moves 'seem' better than they really are! It's an indication that they are finally realizing the 'core' fan base is starting to erode, but you will always have the casual fan buying up the tickets because they have been limited in availabilty the past 8-10 years.

But as is the case with tickets you have had for so many years (and plans to hand down to my son some day) it makes it difficult to not purchase even though they are coming off such a horrible season.

I can truly say I only look forward to seeing certain teams and players throughout the season and that is one of the main reasons I will contnue to go to Fenway even though I would love to just tell them and there mediocre product to shove it. I commend your dad for sending a message to the Indians organization by not buying the ticket package anymore
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