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Old 01-09-2013, 10:07 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Astronix View Post
The other player with 3,000 is Derek Jeter and the only difference between him and Biggio is Jeter was lucky enough to be drafted by the $2 Billion Yankees instead of the Astros (Astros top scout at the time Hal Newhouser quit after the Stros selected Phil Nevin in the 1st round instead of Jeter).
Didn't know that... thanks for the factoid! Good stuff there
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:08 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Care to make a case why he is a HOFer that doesn't include the fact that he got 3000 hits?

Here's my argument for why he is NOT an HOFer:

-Only finished in the top 5 in MVP voting twice in twenty years, and never in the top 3.
-Only was an All-Star seven times in twenty years
-Only finished in the top ten in WAR twice in twenty years.
-Only ranked in the top ten in OPS once in twenty years.
-Was a net negative WAR player (-0.2) over the course of his final three seasons, during which he collected his final 421 hits and passed the 3000 hit mark.
-Was only a career .281 hitter, meaning that his 3000 hits were a product of getting tons of AB as the Astros leadoff hitter, rather than being a particularly good hitter. All the other members of the 3000 hit either hit over
.300 for their career or have 400 HR except for four players: Kaline (399 HR, .297 avg), Rickey Henderson & Lou Brock (special cases because of their SB), and Robin Yount (who I don't think should be in the HOF).
How about doubles?

All time leaders: Speaker, Rose, Musial, Cobb, Biggio
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:09 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Biggio will be in the HOF eventually. Possibly next year but I'm thinking he will his third year since there will be some big names on the ballot next year
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:18 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ETSC View Post
How about doubles?

All time leaders: Speaker, Rose, Musial, Cobb, Biggio
I'll take it two further

285 times he was beaned by a projectile moving upwards of 85 MPH and managed to stay healthy for the majority of his career. Good enough for 2nd all time... Just says that he was a selfless player

How about runs scored? The only players in the top 30 in runs scored who are NOT Hall of Famers are Rose, Jeter and A-Rod. Biggio ranks 15th in that category

I have to agree with above sentiments, and that if Biggio played pretty much anywhere else other than Houston, he'd have had his name called.
Biggio will get in (prob not next year due to Thomas, Glavine and Maddux potentially being 1st ballot guys), but its a shame that nobody will be going into Cooperstown on the merits of the BBWAA this year.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bars and Bar View Post
Biggio used PEDs. I can't prove it, but I know it.
"Singles hitters don't use steroids"(Wade Boggs)
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:27 PM   #31 (permalink)
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For a second baseman he was a really good hitter. Those who play the 2B position aren't generally offensive giants
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:31 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Let me state the obvious.


Apparently he's not.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:33 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bronxbomber33 View Post
Biggio does deserve to be in the hall, although not on the first ballot. I believe only 21
% of hall of famers got in one their first ballot, I don't think Biggio is in the top 21% of all baseball players. He was a great player and deserves to be in just not the first time around!! just my two cents.
Agree 100% with this post

OP you grew up watching Biggio so you have to think outside of the box

3000 hits is great and he will get in soon just not this year (or probably next)
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:49 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by JohnnysBench View Post
"Singles hitters don't use steroids"(Wade Boggs)
but he hit 291 homers and he is under 6 feet tall. so a small dude with 3,000 hits plus 300 homers, in my mind = sterorids. plus he was on the same team as jeff "steroids" bagwell.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:51 PM   #35 (permalink)
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If I had a ballot, and lets just say I'm keeping all convicted steroid users out. Still would have voted Morris, Biggio, Raines, Mcgriff, Trammell and Edgar Martinez... In that order. Its really a shame that some writers didnt even vote a single person in.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Astronix View Post

The other player with 3,000 is Derek Jeter and the only difference between him and Biggio is Jeter was lucky enough'st to be drafted by the $2 Billion Yankees instead of the Astros .
Really? Do you actually believe that's the ONLY difference?

No difference between the two other than:
-Jeter's BA of .313 vs .281 for Biggio
-Jeter's OPS of .829 vs .796 for Biggio
-Jeter's 244 more hits
-Jeter's 13 All Star Games vs 7 for Biggio
-Jeter's 91.5 Offensive WAR vs 72.5 for Biggio
-And the fact that Jeter has more Gold Gloves, Runs, 3B's, RBI's,OBP, SLG, Total Bases, MVP votes, WAR, Runs Created, World Series rings and a ROY award. All in 700 less at-bats.

Although, Biggio has been hit by more pitches...so he's got that going for him..... which is nice.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:52 PM   #37 (permalink)
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If I had a ballot, and lets just say I'm keeping all convicted steroid users out. Still would have voted Morris, Biggio, Raines, Mcgriff, Trammell and Edgar Martinez... In that order. Its really a shame that some writers didnt even vote a single person in.
you think piazza took steroids?
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:54 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Really? Do you actually believe that's the ONLY difference?

No difference between the two other than:
-Jeter's BA of .313 vs .281 for Biggio
-Jeter's OPS of .829 vs .796 for Biggio
-Jeter's 244 more hits
-Jeter's 13 All Star Games vs 7 for Biggio
-Jeter's 91.5 Offensive WAR vs 72.5 for Biggio
-And the fact that Jeter has more Gold Gloves, Runs, 3B's, RBI's,OBP, SLG, Total Bases, MVP votes, WAR, Runs Created, World Series rings and a ROY award. All in 700 less at-bats.

Although, Biggio has been hit by more pitches...so he's got that going for him..... which is nice.

Definitely have to agree Biggio is not Jeter. Jeter is going to go down as a top 10-20 guy all time. Comparing most guys to Jeter is unfair.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:55 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Biggio
Piazza
Bagwell
Clemens
Bonds
are all first ballot hofers

the system is a joke..

Did they take steriods? yes... but so did everyone else..

i have heard 60-70 percent of players took something and i believe it

IMO it was an even playing field for everyone
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:56 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Nope, he'll be 2nd ballot at best
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:01 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Did they take steriods? yes... but so did everyone else..

i have heard 60-70 percent of players took something and i believe it

IMO it was an even playing field for everyone
The Big Hurt didn't which is why I think he'll go in next year in his first year of eligibility.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:03 PM   #42 (permalink)
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The Big Hurt didn't which is why I think he'll go in next year in his first year of eligibility.
He better!!!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:04 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I don't count the corporate season tickets that no one uses.

The World Series is usually about a 7 TV rating and the average REGULAR season NFL game averages a 10.
That's because America is stupid and would rather watch 300 pound men run into each other, instead of anything involving confusing numbers that they don't understand.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:05 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by kyle1707 View Post
Biggio
Piazza
Bagwell
Clemens
Bonds
are all first ballot hofers

the system is a joke..

Did they take steriods? yes... but so did everyone else..

i have heard 60-70 percent of players took something and i believe it

IMO it was an even playing field for everyone
You speak the truth my friend


These morons couldn't even get clean for the pilot drug test in 03. THEY KNEW ABOUT THE TEST WELL IN ADVANCE!!! If less than 5% of them tested positive, we wouldn't even be talking about this right now. It was included in the 2002 negotiation between MLB and the union. Its a total joke.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:05 PM   #45 (permalink)
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The Big Hurt didn't which is why I think he'll go in next year in his first year of eligibility.
If Thomas and Maddux don't get in next year, there is something seriously flawed with the system. Not only were they dominant players with shoe-in numbers, but they played the game with the class and respect that soo many writers seem to complain about the steroid era players not having.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:12 PM   #46 (permalink)
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If Thomas and Maddux don't get in next year, there is something seriously flawed with the system. Not only were they dominant players with shoe-in numbers, but they played the game with the class and respect that soo many writers seem to complain about the steroid era players not having.
I think Thomas, Glavine, and Maddux all three go in on the first ballot next year. I was thinking Mussina too but after refreshing myself on his numbers I think he'll get in on his 2nd or 3rd.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:17 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I say maddux and Morris make it next year, biggio with around the same, piazza with around the same.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:20 PM   #48 (permalink)
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It will be a joke if Maddux doesn't get at least 90% on his first ballot. I'm almost certain Thomas will make it his first year as well. Glavine possibly
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:49 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Biggio does deserve to be in the hall, although not on the first ballot. I believe only 21
% of hall of famers got in one their first ballot, I don't think Biggio is in the top 21% of all baseball players. He was a great player and deserves to be in just not the first time around!! just my two cents.
This thinking is so stupid to me. The players career is over. It's not going to improve so waiting until the 2nd or 3rd year etc. makes no sense. If the player is a HOF caliber player put him in on his first year or don't put him in at all. No lessons are being learned and nothing is being gained by making them wait. As for the PEDs, baseball is just going to have to accept they were a part of the game and move on. While I don't like Bonds or Clemens, they deserve to be in as does McGwire. Really I think most of the guys eligible today are deserving. The one being slapped the hardest by the PEDs is Palmeiro and even he probably needs to be in. He was a great player.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:04 AM   #50 (permalink)
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having a batting average of .281 and averaging 15 homeruns a season is NOT a 1st ballot hall of famer
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