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View Poll Results: Did Braun use steroids?
No 57 32.02%
Yes 109 61.24%
Undecided 12 6.74%
Voters: 178. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-27-2013, 02:35 PM   #51 (permalink)
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MVP coming up in 2013...book it, Braun is the man!!!!
there will be a story on him using PED in 2013......thats a guarans
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:45 PM   #52 (permalink)
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How much proof do you need, thats more proof than Melky, just because they weren't allowed to punish him doesn't mean they thought he was innocent.
Until Braun himself admits to taking PEDs I won't believe he used them, I just won't.
Would it be a huge surprise if he did use them? No, because after the steroid era I'm sure a lot of people started getting creative. But because I don't know who, I'm not going to point fingers just because everyone else is.
The fact that word of him "failing" the drug test somehow leaked in the first place is pretty suspicious to me. And although he got off on a technicality I've yet to see him fail a drug test again. Plus his head's not as big as one of those on Mt. Rushmore.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
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I believe it was 3x higher than anyone else had ever tested... that makes the test suspect.

The test protocol wasn't followed so the test was invalid. Its not a technicality, these protocols are there for a reason, and what is telling is he had not failed a test prior to this or after it and was tested 100x that season. I would err on the side of bad test.
No, anti-semetism is everywhere and I wouldn't be shocked if some redneck in the chain of custody decided to try to stick it to Braun... not accusing, just saying I wouldn't be surprised.
Not at 29. He needs to do a lot more. Winning a World Series would help too.
Why would need a reason that the test came up positive if the test protocol wasn't followed?
Pretty much this. So much idiocy and incorrect info in this thread. Par for the course for this site.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:26 PM   #54 (permalink)
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there will be a story on him using PED in 2013......thats a guarans

Maybe. It would be a lot more likely if he played in, say, San Francisco.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:33 PM   #55 (permalink)
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Couldn't a lot of guys be on HGH because there was no testing? This stuff is just as if not more effective than synthetic testosterone. There may be an even greater decline in HRs over the next couple years because of this. It's amazing to me that they are just now going to begin testing for it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 03:38 PM   #56 (permalink)
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I believe it was 3x higher than anyone else had ever tested... that makes the test suspect.
-We're not just referring to one test. Multiple. Multiple tests showed an unnatural level of a banned substance.

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Originally Posted by frozenntimesports View Post
The test protocol wasn't followed so the test was invalid. Its not a technicality, these protocols are there for a reason, and what is telling is he had not failed a test prior to this or after it and was tested 100x that season. I would err on the side of bad test.
-The chain of custody was broken, the protocol was not followed, and that made the test the equivalent of 'inadmissable' against him. It does not invalidate the test. In fact, he never argued the test was not correct. He only argued the chain of custody, results notwithstanding.

There was no evidence showing the results were wrong, and in fact the overwhelming amount of evidence presented shored up the test as being an accurate and reliable reading of the sample. If yer gonna pick nits, make sure you pick the right ones.

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Why would need a reason that the test came up positive if the test protocol wasn't followed?
-And that's how he won the case, the rules. The 'technical' rules and procedures of testing. Not that the test was invalid, unreliable, or any other attack on the science of it. Just that someone didn't mail it when they were supposed to. And, because of that, he's more suspect than Bonds.

With Bonds, you have rumors. With Braun, you have tests and samples that he never once tried to dispute the validity of, only that certain rules of mailing and transfer weren't followed.

What's good for the goose and all that.

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Old 01-27-2013, 03:45 PM   #57 (permalink)
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He would be foolish to argue the validity of a test that was thrown out. Only a fool would give any more ammunition and attention to something they want to go away. Whether guilty or innocent.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:37 PM   #58 (permalink)
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He would be foolish to argue the validity of a test that was thrown out. Only a fool would give any more ammunition and attention to something they want to go away. Whether guilty or innocent.
-I don't disagree with this, but let's all not pretend it means he is above suspicion when so many others are not with much, much less evidence against them.

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Old 01-27-2013, 04:48 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Definitely not above suspicion, but not convicted as guilty either.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:44 PM   #60 (permalink)
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I choose to be ignorant and believe he is innocent
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Old 01-27-2013, 08:09 PM   #61 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by lobo_hacker View Post
-We're not just referring to one test. Multiple. Multiple tests showed an unnatural level of a banned substance.

-The chain of custody was broken, the protocol was not followed, and that made the test the equivalent of 'inadmissable' against him. It does not invalidate the test. In fact, he never argued the test was not correct. He only argued the chain of custody, results notwithstanding.

I never went after Bonds, I gave him the benefit of the doubt too.

Chain of custody is broken, which means the sample could have been tampered with.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:03 PM   #62 (permalink)
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... which means the sample could have been tampered with.
-But it wasn't. That's sorta my point. The seal was not tampered with and the sample was not altered by any outside source. That much was acknowledged in the hearing by all evidence presented. If there was any evidence the sample had been manipulated, i think everyone would expect Braun's representatives to argue that. But they didn't. Because there is no indication it was anything other than secure, regardless what shelf it sat on for an extra day or two.

Every piece of testimony, testing, and recordation provided that the sample was not tampered with. Unless you just want to start hypothesizing based on no evidence at all. Which i suppose you can.

I understand the why of how Braun won, i am jsut disappointed he did with the overwhelming amount of verifiable evidence showing he did something naughty. Kinda like a felon getting off charges due to a Miranda violation.

Agree to disagree and all that.

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Old 01-27-2013, 09:55 PM   #63 (permalink)
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If he did juice I am kinda heartbroken. This kid has such consistent incredible talent...why the hell would you jeopardize it all? I can understand the attraction in Bonds' day, but now with all of the scrutiny?
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:57 PM   #64 (permalink)
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He's not guilty...just like OJ Simpson
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:11 PM   #65 (permalink)
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He's not guilty...just like OJ Simpson
And Ray Lewis.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:13 PM   #66 (permalink)
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And Ray Lewis.
And Casey Anthony.
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:15 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Guilty, got off on a technicality.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:42 AM   #68 (permalink)
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-But it wasn't. That's sorta my point. The seal was not tampered with and the sample was not altered by any outside source.
There is no way to know if that was the same sample though. Just because it was sealed and not tampered with didn't make it is his.


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I understand the why of how Braun won, i am jsut disappointed he did with the overwhelming amount of verifiable evidence showing he did something naughty. Kinda like a felon getting off charges due to a Miranda violation.
I don't think you quite understand Miranda but that is OK because you're not a lawyer. I get the gist of what you are saying.

What I am saying is Braun only put on enough of a defense to refute the charges. There was probably more. Part of the reason he didn't put more defense up was likely because he did not want to get hooked into a civil suit with this testing agent.

There is a lot more to this story. When I'm defending an "innocent" person in court, I only put on what helps the case and doesn't expose my client to being cross-examined... of course all my clients are innocent so there is no real risk.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:48 AM   #69 (permalink)
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of course all my clients are innocent so there is no real risk.
Unfortunately, they all ended up in Shawshank.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:15 AM   #70 (permalink)
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Unfortunately, they all ended up in Shawshank.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:35 AM   #71 (permalink)
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He tested positive for SYNTHETIC testosterone. I don't care how long your urine sits on a shelf in someone's basement, it will not magically grow synthetic testosterone. Braun was guilty as hell and he abused the system and got the result thrown out on a technicality. I have less respect for him than if he would have admitted his mistake and taken his punishment like a man. He has NO F'ing integrity!
Agree... And I collect/like Braun......I think he totally juiced it up. He should have just admitted it like a man.
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Old 01-28-2013, 10:37 AM   #72 (permalink)
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and if he really does have herpes like an earlier post implied, he really needs to glove that thing up......Come on' Braun, that's gross!
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:25 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Dude is a cheater pure and simple. Who cares though, most of the league still uses. Will be interesting this year with HGH testing and testosterone blood testing.
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Old 01-28-2013, 12:39 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I have very little doubt that he was 'enhanced' just as I suspect many others that have yet to be caught including (and I hope I'm wrong) Pujols. The strange thing is that I go back and forth on how I feel about it. I don't care so much in football or basketball if they juice. I only care in baseball because I am old school and love looking at statistics and records.

I also get the argument that steroids or not that generations aren't directly comparable, dead ball, segregation, steroids etc. The thing I struggle with is that by most accounts or accusations up to 50% or more of baseball was on something in the steroid era. If that is the case the cream that rose to the top should still be worthy of recognition should they not?

The problem lies in rewarding someone for cheating. I am the first one to bash for people that don't think it is important to follow rules/laws and not be accountable or responsible so it pains me that I even consider the flip side to this. I also hate that those that chose to play the game clean were harmed in any way.

The Lance Armstrong case is a perfect example. I have little doubt that 80-90% of the TDF field is on steroids. You are almost required to do it to be competitive. The fact that Lance 'won' 7 Tours is still that impressive. You can argue that his support and financial backing allowed him to do it to a level that others were not able to and you would be right. I bet if Lance was as amicable as Braun he would have a whole lot more sympathy and backing than he does. the fact that he is the same kind of ahole as Bonds makes it easy to pile on.

I guess what gets me is how many people here are defending Braun. The evidence is overwhelming that he cheated. He got over on a technicality. The only thing that throws me is that he had such a great season last year and I can't even imagine that he was still using. Having said that, Bonds and Armstrong kept using year after year even after being accused. Some of these guys are just that arrogant.

Just some thoughts, right or wrong.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:28 PM   #75 (permalink)
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So with recent news coming from Miami, is it just coincidence that Braun has Miami ties dating back to college?
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