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Old 02-03-2013, 02:54 PM   #401 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by luck15hope View Post
Dave, go back and look at my long post and how I interpreted "misprints" and "error" cards. Beckett has not recognized this card as an error, because it was not an error. I believe Topps knows that they caught this misprint prior to the card being inserted into a pack and fixed it, but somehow the misprint still made its way into a pack. Topps may legitimately not know how it ended up in a pack, however I think they do know it wasnt supposed to be. If there never was a superfractor autograph made, and your card was indeed the only superfractor autograph that was meant to be produced and it made its way into a pack like this going unnoticed, then it would be entitled to the "error BGS label" that you so much desire. But I believe that Topps knows there is a legit Superfractor out there, and that is why yours is not an "error" and simply a misprint. Also I believe ( and Im sure you agree this to be true as well or you would have sent the card to Topps a long time ago) that if you were to send the card back to topps for an equal value replacement, they would end up keeping your card(since they never meant for it to make it out) and sending you something in the realms of a real AROD autograph. However, you have made it clear that that would not be acceptable to you because you feel that yours should be valued at the card with the odds of 1:600,000 packs, and that you should get a replacement accordingly. You wouldnt be entitled to a replacement valued at the card of those odds because I believe that Topps knows that the TRUE card with those odds is still out there.

To me if a card has a misprint it is an error. The misprint would be the error.

But first things first, I need to find out from Topps if there was a superfractor version and then go from there.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:55 PM   #402 (permalink)
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I think the reason this card was graded by BGS is because a reader wrote in and Beckett questioned Topps and received a response that cards stuck together and it was inserted into packs.

Without that confirmation from Topps they might not have graded it because like you said it does say Not Valid Without Sticker.

Perhaps BGS needs to rethink on what they grade or how they grade errors.
We have seen BGS grade trimmed cards, fake cards that have replaced patches, or even fake sig cards like the ones from buybacks in bowman origins. They as the "authenticator", or "experts" are running a different business than topps. Topps produce cards, they have no reason to deal with what beckett does I believe. If Beckett has to contact Topps for every little thing, what does that say about thier business, thier expertise goes out the door doesn't it? So as professionals, they have information that is released and goes by what is presented to them.
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Old 02-03-2013, 02:55 PM   #403 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jlzinck View Post
You bought a card on the secondary market and you expect the manufaturer to fix a manufacturing quality issue.

THey have already offered you something, when they didn't have to and it was not enough value for you.

You are a scammer. Nothing better than someone who "slips and falls" in a business to get a payoff. Except THOSE people admit it

That is not true at all and I have explained when I got this card what I wanted to do with it and am not going to explain it again.

Please leave me alone and stop harassing me.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:04 PM   #404 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:05 PM   #405 (permalink)
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Also the person that would be entitled to the replacement would be the person that pulled the card. It was sold onthe secondary market, and you bought it knowing it was an error card. Thats like dumping a whole bunch of stocks knowing that the price is going to drop. You knew the situation and feel like you should get something out of it. So you proceeded to purchase something that was made clear to you that it was an error card.
You didn't perhaps read where I said I bought this as an error but did not know it was the 94 1/1 card as the error.

Once I knew that I knew for sure this was an error I wanted corrected.

This is what was said about this very card in the December 2005 issue of Beckett

"During production, chrome cards have a tendency to stick together. This is what most likely happened and an unknown number of unsigned cards were accidentally inserted into packs. Any collector in possession of these cards needs to contact our customer service department so we can resolve the situation."

If you notice the last part it doesn't say anything about original owner or anything else. it simple says any collector in possession of these cards needs to contact our customer service department so we can resolve the situation.

That seems pretty simple and straightforward and that is what I did originally.

Also I don't think Topps or any other company for that matter has any rules on error cards or autograph cards missing the autograph.

I know they have guidelines for like missing hits and damaged cards but nothing specific for error cards. I think with an autograph card missing the autograph that is more of a guarantee or warranty issue and does not expire.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:09 PM   #406 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:09 PM   #407 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by bogeyfreeround View Post
We have seen BGS grade trimmed cards, fake cards that have replaced patches, or even fake sig cards like the ones from buybacks in bowman origins. They as the "authenticator", or "experts" are running a different business than topps. Topps produce cards, they have no reason to deal with what beckett does I believe. If Beckett has to contact Topps for every little thing, what does that say about thier business, thier expertise goes out the door doesn't it? So as professionals, they have information that is released and goes by what is presented to them.

I have no information about them grading cards like you said but I feel pretty confident that if I had a counterfeit or backdoored or stolen card it would not be graded by BGS.

I would also hope that if Beckett had a question about a card they would research it and or reach out to the company to inquire about it. Nothing shameful in asking a question about something if you don't know the answer.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:12 PM   #408 (permalink)
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Yes, but in your case. The autograph guarantee or warranty is not valid on your card because it does not have the guaranteed/warranty stickers applied. Now, if your card had those stickers applied and there was no autograph on the front, THEN your warranty would be legit, but your card does not have the guaranteed waranty, so Topps has no guarantee or waranty to fulfill.
I would argue that any certified autograph that is missing the autograph does have a warranty or guarantee with or without the stickers.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:13 PM   #409 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:17 PM   #410 (permalink)
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I would argue that any certified autograph that is missing the autograph does have a warranty or guarantee with or without the stickers.
The caard clearly states it is not valid without the stickers. Just going by the logic that is presented.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:20 PM   #411 (permalink)
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The caard clearly states it is not valid without the stickers. Just going by the logic that is presented.
I always thought that meant the autograph is not valid without the sticker.

That is why when arod agreed to sign it I wanted Topps there to authenticate and sticker the card.

Some have said just get it signed and then authenticated with PSA or BGS but without those stickers I am unsure that would even be possible.

This does bring up an interesting point and I will be sure to include the question about what exactly the Not Valid part means when I contact Topps.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:21 PM   #412 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:24 PM   #413 (permalink)
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I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 2009 bowman red 1/1 issue. The real stamped 1/1 were inserted into packs but the topps released the non stamped reds to shops or distributors or something. I have 2 of the Jeff francoeur versions, the true 1/1 and the unstamped version. In theory anyone can stamp them and you wouldn't know the difference between the real 1/1 and the counterfeit one.

This was not a nightmare for topps so I doubt your issue will.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:25 PM   #414 (permalink)
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I would have to say that you are wrong. At the time of your cards release, the autographs only guarantee or warranty was specifically those stickers in particular. The autographed cards nowadays are produced without stickers. The stickers are replaced by the guarantee being printed on the back of the card, something to the extent of "This autograph is certified and was witnessed by a Topps employee". That is the new form of guarantee. In 2005, the only guarantee was those Stickers, since there was no other form of guarantee printed on the back of the earlier cards.

I think the reason I disagree is because I have another Topps card maybe more than one that is missing the autograph but does have that square sticker on back.

Now I could sign my name to that card and just because the sticker is there it does not make it authentic.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:26 PM   #415 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:28 PM   #416 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dizzyduff13 View Post
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the 2009 bowman red 1/1 issue. The real stamped 1/1 were inserted into packs but the topps released the non stamped reds to shops or distributors or something. I have 2 of the Jeff francoeur versions, the true 1/1 and the unstamped version. In theory anyone can stamp them and you wouldn't know the difference between the real 1/1 and the counterfeit one.

This was not a nightmare for topps so I doubt your issue will.
I do not know about these cards but if there is no way to identify the stamped ones versus the non stamped ones then yes anyone with a hot foil stamp machine and the dies and the know how could stamp numbers on the other cards.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:30 PM   #417 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:34 PM   #418 (permalink)
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OK, now with that card, you could hold Topps accountable for a replacement of the same card or even hold them accountable to get that card signed in the same way you are trying to get the Arod signed and witnessed by them, because they applied their guarantee. If the card HAS the sticker, then that means it was legitimately supposed to be an actual autographed card that was truly sent to the proper player but may have accidently been stuck to another and mistakenly not signed. However, because your AROD has no sticker, that means it was never meant to be signed in the first place and has no guarantee

I see what you are saying but still somewhat disagree. The lack of an autograph on a certified autograph card trumps all else in my opinion.

The stickers on these older cards are just that stickers. Topps has confirmed the numbers on the hologram stickers don't mean anything and are not matched to any specific card.

The reason I know this is because I have two Topps basketball cards that are exactly the same. Both the same cards with both the same serial numbers (01/19) and the only difference on them is the numbers on the hologram.

When I asked Topps about the numbers on the hologram to look up each card to verify and see what happened I was told that would not be possible as the numbers on the hologram have no meaning.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:50 PM   #419 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:50 PM   #420 (permalink)
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I see what you are saying but still somewhat disagree. The lack of an autograph on a certified autograph card trumps all else in my opinion.

The stickers on these older cards are just that stickers. Topps has confirmed the numbers on the hologram stickers don't mean anything and are not matched to any specific card.

The reason I know this is because I have two Topps basketball cards that are exactly the same. Both the same cards with both the same serial numbers (01/19) and the only difference on them is the numbers on the hologram.

When I asked Topps about the numbers on the hologram to look up each card to verify and see what happened I was told that would not be possible as the numbers on the hologram have no meaning.
See Dave I do believe that your card was pulled from a pack, and it was a quality control issue, but how do we not know a printing employee didn't take these out of production just to sell them on a secondary market. Saying he/she pulled it out of a pack. I work at a printing company. I have a lot of print press operators that use to print up cards for various companies. They said there were strict rules about taking any cards or uncut sheets home of printing mishaps, or printing test. It does take a lot of time to get a print press to get up to speed for temperture, ink , and all the other factors that goes into getting the cardboard right. They told me about how many error or uncut sheets they have sitting at home. None of them collect but they still have all of these cards. In that case even if the cards were inserted or not inserted, was a printing mishap, and you don't know how many were released in packs or taken from the printery. So in logic we don't know how many were inserted or if they were inserted at 1: 6 billion packs. I can see topps trying to make this right for you with an autograph, they don't know how many were released so how can they compensate for something they have no idea of?
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #421 (permalink)
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How about you actually do take the time to go get it and scan it, and I will give you a 2012 Topps Museum Collection Shane Victorino Jumbo Patch Autograph /10 that I value at $50 which would be the amount I would be willing to pay for your 1 hour of service that it would take you to go get the card, go home, and take some pictures and then post them here. .
Sorry bud, I run three busy practices and 50/hr isnt my going hourly rate. I've scanned the front, I assure you that the back is the same.
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:02 PM   #422 (permalink)
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Sorry bud, I run three busy practices and 50/hr isnt my going hourly rate.
Do you really have the card?
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:03 PM   #423 (permalink)
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:03 PM   #424 (permalink)
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Do you really have the card?
Yes, lol, I have been saying that the entire time
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Old 02-03-2013, 04:04 PM   #425 (permalink)
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Sure. Ive read where you have previously stated that you are unsure about whether or not what is on the back, so your assurance doesnt hold any validity.
Would you like to make a 500 bet turd????
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