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Old 02-10-2013, 02:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Craiggysanford View Post
with auto....


with 5 seconds of rubbing with nail polish remover..... no damage......


I would say, leave the subject alone. before someone actually buys and gets you for fraud.

I cannot see the card so I cannot say but I would bet of you sent that card in it would not get graded because you could tell the autograph was removed and therefore altered.

Also would like to point out there is 100% no fraud on my part.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:21 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Craiggysanford View Post
with auto....


with 5 seconds of rubbing with nail polish remover..... no damage......


I would say, leave the subject alone. before someone actually buys and gets you for fraud.

Also upon close inspection you can still see the remains of the autograph in certain spots.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:22 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
I cannot see the card so I cannot say but I would bet of you sent that card in it would not get graded because you could tell the autograph was removed and therefore altered.

Also would like to point out there is 100% no fraud on my part.
So you can't see the picture, yet you are telling him that you can tell that the autograph was removed.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
Also upon close inspection you can still see the remains of the autograph in certain spots.
It's easy to do a thorough job removing the autograph, and the rubbing alcohol doesn't damage the card.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:24 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
Also upon close inspection you can still see the remains of the autograph in certain spots.
I thought you couldn't see the card?
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:25 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
Also upon close inspection you can still see the remains of the autograph in certain spots.
Yep, right next to the windmills.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:25 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Again I find it hard to believe an autograph can be removed from a card like that without any damage to the card.

If this indeed the case then Topps has a huge problem on their hands.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:26 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
Again I find it hard to believe an autograph can be removed from a card like that without any damage to the card.

If this indeed the case then Topps has a huge problem on their hands.
Why is it a problem? Anyone who takes the auto off of a sought after card would just be devaluing it...
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:28 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
Again I find it hard to believe an autograph can be removed from a card like that without any damage to the card.

If this indeed the case then Topps has a huge problem on their hands.
How does Topps have a problem on their hands? Because fraudsters like you wipe off the ink on the cards they orignally had packaged with autos and turn around and sell them as error cards? Just like the idiots that peel off sticker autos and put them on other cards to make more money. That is not Topps fault, that's people like you trying to take advantage of other misinformed people.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:28 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I am afraid that the only thing that will silence Dave Peters is 18-24 months of jail time for the constant fraud that he is attempting at Topps.

Hey Dave, do you think that there is a good reason that Topps does not answers any of your calls, letters, e-mails, tweets?
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Why is it a problem? Anyone who takes the auto off of a sought after card would just be devaluing it...

The problem would be that anyone could do it.

Again I don't think it is possible but will certainly ask Topps and Beckett.

Or if anyone could provide legit proof that would be cool too. And by legit proof i don't mean someone posting just a simple before and after pic.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:29 PM   #37 (permalink)
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You can't tell. You can also use white vinyl eraser, like a staedtler, and take an auto off without any damage, or way to tell it was taken off. It's really very simple and takes all of 5 seconds.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:32 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Hi Dave Peters, here is an example of an autographed card being wiped off and then re-signed by someone trying to fake a '10' autograph.

Fake "Certified" Bryce Harper Auto Alert!

Original auto, before being wiped off:


Fake auto, after being wiped off:
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:32 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
The problem would be that anyone could do it.

Again I don't think it is possible but will certainly ask Topps and Beckett.

Or if anyone could provide legit proof that would be cool too. And by legit proof i don't mean someone posting just a simple before and after pic.
If it was an actual problem Topps probably would have done something back when Bowman Chrome autos came out, and someone already posted a legit before and after pic...
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #40 (permalink)
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These are all 100% legit unaltered cards.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:46 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
These are all 100% legit unaltered cards.
All you have are pictures. And according to you those are not legit enough.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:48 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Then why are you shooting down every piece of legit evidence that suggests that it is possible to wipe clean the auto from a card? Before and after pictures and real life examples have been shown and you still shoot it down.
I guess I just can't believe Topps would be stupid enough to make autograph cards that could be wiped off like that.

Also have yet to see any real concrete type evidence.

I think the best thing to do would be for Topps to comment on this and either acknowledge it or deny it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:51 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Also have yet to see any real concrete type evidence.
What more evidence do you need?
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:52 PM   #44 (permalink)
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What more evidence do you need?
somebody make a video on youtube upload it showing the steps and maybe then he will get a clue
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:55 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I got back into the hobby in 2010 and I personally opened a pack of 2011 Bowman that contained a Jurickson Profar autograph card that was missing the auto.

I was in no way soliciting a sale, it was the first time I had seen a card missing an auto so I started a thread and asked if it would be of value to a Profar collector or what I should do. Got a mixed bag of responses and actually had a Topps Employee reply to send it back to them, and one absolutely fantastic auto that someone made(definitely worth a look if you want a good laugh)....

In the end I kept it because as a budding Eddie Rosario supercollector I knew I would want a Rosario "nonauto auto" in my collection so I figured that a Profar collector/supercollector would want it. It really wasn't about making money or marketing it as some 1/1, I just saw it as an oddity for a collection and something cool for a collector.

After reading all these threads today I wish I would have just returned the card to Topps and it is too late to do anything about it. Now I honestly don't have a clue what to do with this thing.

Just curious on the opinion from the board. Would it be appropriate to sell it at the going ebay rate for the autographed version?


Profar Missing Autograph ?

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Old 02-10-2013, 02:56 PM   #46 (permalink)
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somebody make a video on youtube upload it showing the steps and maybe then he will get a clue
That would certainly be cool to watch but still not sure it would prove it.

A card being graded where the autograph was removed and BGS or PSA not knowing would be proof because they would not grade an altered card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pigeonsbaseball View Post
I got back into the hobby in 2010 and I personally opened a pack of 2011 Bowman that contained a Jurickson Profar autograph card that was missing the auto.

I was in no way soliciting a sale, it was the first time I had seen a card missing an auto so I started a thread and asked if it would be of value to a Profar collector or what I should do. Got a mixed bag of responses and actually had a Topps Employee reply to send it back to them, and one absolutely fantastic auto that someone made(definitely worth a look if you want a good laugh)....

In the end I kept it because as a budding Eddie Rosario supercollector I knew I would want a Rosario "nonauto auto" in my collection so I figured that a Profar collector/supercollector would want it. It really wasn't about making money or marketing it as some 1/1, I just saw it as an oddity for a collection and something cool for a collector.

After reading all these threads today I wish I would have just returned the card to Topps and it is too late to do anything about it. Now I honestly don't have a clue what to do with this thing.

Just curious on the opinion from the board. Would it be appropriate to sell it at the going ebay rate for the autographed version?


Profar Missing Autograph ?



This card is not covered in the general Topps replacement guidelines and can be returned to them at any time if you choose to do so.

I believe their guidelines only cover missing hits and damaged cards.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:59 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davepeters239 View Post
I guess I just can't believe Topps would be stupid enough to make autograph cards that could be wiped off like that.

Also have yet to see any real concrete type evidence.

I think the best thing to do would be for Topps to comment on this and either acknowledge it or deny it.
Concrete evidence? So you come on here telling us that you have an invalid non-quoted 1/1 of a-rod, and expect us to believe it is the true 1/1, but we give you evidence for this that it is possible to wipe it off and you still won't believe it? Kinda a double standard.

It is possible, but not much to gain money wise by doing it. There are lots of things people can do that wont make money. In this case, some people are erasing the auto to get it signed in person in different ink. As long as they don't sell it as a 1/1 auto or something, and keep it in their collection, it's fine.

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This card is not covered in the general Topps replacement guidelines and can be returned to them at any time if you choose to do so.

I believe their guidelines only cover missing hits and damaged cards.
Wrong.

Products are considered obsolete after the following years version is released.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Wrong.

Products are considered obsolete after the following years version is released.
I do believe though an autograph card missing an autograph is more of a warranty or COA issue and does not expire after a year.

Topps only has guidelines for missing hits and damaged cards as far as I can tell.

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Concrete evidence? So you come on here telling us that you have an invalid non-quoted 1/1 of a-rod, and expect us to believe it is the true 1/1, but we give you evidence for this that it is possible to wipe it off and you still won't believe it? Kinda a double standard.

It is possible, but not much to gain money wise by doing it. There are lots of things people can do that wont make money. In this case, some people are erasing the auto to get it signed in person in different ink. As long as they don't sell it as a 1/1 auto or something, and keep it in their collection, it's fine.
Well there was another person who posted in the Profrar thread that it would be impossible to remove an autograph without some damage to the card.
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:06 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I have a bunch of Taveras gold refractor autos if you are interested
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Old 02-10-2013, 03:07 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Look what got graded by beckett!
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