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Old 02-11-2013, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Topps blatantly committed fraud... 2011 Bowman Platinum Leo Nunez Bat/Auto

This card has always bothered me, and I was bored today:



Facts:

- The release date of 2011 Bowman Platinum was July 27, 2011 (pushed back from late June 2011).

- This card was NOT a redemption... it was live upon release.

- Leo Nunez has ONE plate appearance in his career (minors and MLB). He grounded out to second.

- His ONLY career plate appearance happened in the 9th inning of a game against the Rockies, on August 15, 2011 - two weeks AFTER the release of 2011 Bowman Platinum. Boxscore

That's fraud... possibly fraud in the inducement.

Other things that bother me:

- Topps certified that Leo Nunez signed the card - he didn't; Juan Carlos Oviedo did.

- Including parallels, there were 1500 copies of this card produced. Can you get 1,500 pieces of wood that six pieces of wood that size from ONE bat? BTW - I checked, he only used on bat during his at-bat. Watched the first pitch for a strike, watched the second pitch for a ball, and grounded the third pitch to second base. Pitch-by-pitch recount of his at-bat

There it is in black and white... is anyone bothered by the overall premise of this?
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It's a reach claiming fraud because Juan Carlos Oviedo is his real name (If MLB didn't know, how was Topps supposed to know?), but the rest is pretty spot on. You should tweet, email and call Topps and see what they say.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:28 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Nice research! I wouldn't want a piece of a pitchers bat anyways.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Would be like the collector suing over the Fausto Carmona fake name shenanigans.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:29 PM   #5 (permalink)
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spring training perhaps?
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPNCards View Post
Would be like the collector suing over the Fausto Carmona fake name shenanigans.
Link or details? I hadn't heard about this.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:30 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Being bad at business and committing fraud are two different things. This case wouldn't make it pass judge Judy let alone an actual court.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
Link or details? I hadn't heard about this.
Collector Sues Carmona/Hernandez, Wants ROI on His Rookie Cards | Sports Collectors Digest
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Bat could be from anywhere it only says "game-used memorabilia" and I'm guessing the back message is just as vague. Plus they aren't promising it's from his MLB career I'm guessing he's had at-bats in other places.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:32 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You can get 1156 pieces out of a bat. That's probably what they got out of that bat.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Does the card refer to the relic as "game used." Topps usually includes the disclaimer that "this relic is not from a specific game/season." I'm no law dog, but I interpret that as, "this relic could very well be from your obese uncle Jimmie's softball game."
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:36 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigEd View Post
It's a reach claiming fraud because Juan Carlos Oviedo is his real name (If MLB didn't know, how was Topps supposed to know?), but the rest is pretty spot on. You should tweet, email and call Topps and see what they say.
It's a reach, but it's legally correct. As collectors, we are third-party beneficiaries of the contract that the players sign with Topps. We sue Topps, and they bring him into the suit. If Topps paid him to sign the cards (which I assume they did - players don't do so out of the goodness of their hearts), he breached the contract by signing his fake name. Topps can recover the money paid under that contract. As such, Topps was unjustly enriched (to a small extent) by getting money from us for this particular card. Sounds like a law school question, and every judge in America would throw it out; however, in theory, it's possible.

On the other hand, I bet Topps would win in a breach of contract action.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I agree with most of what you posted (sans the technicality issue with his name)... but really... what are the damages here? It's probably a "game-issued" bat and not a "game-used" bat. What's the difference from a value standpoint on this card? Maybe $500 over 1500 cards?

Topps does some shady stuff, but who knows exactly how much? If it's happening on a large scale, only way to go is a class action, and there isn't a big return to be had there for collectors. There's nothing anyone can really do here besides A) take it or B) stop buying.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:39 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyday View Post
Being bad at business and committing fraud are two different things. This case wouldn't make it pass judge Judy let alone an actual court.
It is fraud. I never said we would end up millionaires because of it, but it does meet the legal definition of fraud.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenntimesports View Post
You can get 1156 pieces out of a bat. That's probably what they got out of that bat.
With parallels there were 1500 cards - can you get that many? I don't know, and my scale is being used for other things at the moment
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Topps doesn't say it was a bat. Game used memorabilia, piece of wood from anything at all made of wood, doesn't matter. I think Topps pretty much mailed it in with most "relic" cards a while ago. To say they've become careless about it isn't a stretch. Not surprised at all to see this.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Do you really think topps has Babe Ruth/Ty Cobb bats laying around?
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
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It's not fraud if he signed the cards. Doesn't matter if he called himself Batman, if that guy signed the cards then it's not fraud.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:44 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamboooler View Post
I agree with most of what you posted (sans the technicality issue with his name)... but really... what are the damages here? It's probably a "game-issued" bat and not a "game-used" bat. What's the difference from a value standpoint on this card? Maybe $500 over 1500 cards?

Topps does some shady stuff, but who knows exactly how much? If it's happening on a large scale, only way to go is a class action, and there isn't a big return to be had there for collectors. There's nothing anyone can really do here besides A) take it or B) stop buying.
Like I said - there is no money to be made... we are agreed there.

To me... this is beyond "shady"... it's wrong. I'm not insulted by it or anything, I just wanted to point it out as direct proof that Topps has lied in the past.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Heres another one for ya





Facts:

- Michael Pineda has only pitched in Spring Training Games for the Yankees

- The Yankees only wear there Pinstripe Home Jerseys for the First home game of Spring Training.

- Michael Pineda did not pitch in that game (March 4, 2012)



There is no way he wore that Jersey on the field during a game for the Yankees.

Last edited by vwnut13; 02-11-2013 at 06:50 PM.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vwnut13 View Post
Heres another one for ya





Facts:

- Michael Pineda has only pitched in Spring Training Games for the Yankees

- The Yankees only wear there Pinstripe Home Jerseys for the First home game of Spring Training.

- Michael Pineda did not pitch in that game (March 4, 2012)



There is no way he wore that Jersey on the field during a game for the Yankees.
-No promise is made on that card that we he wore is from a Yankees game. I would bet it probably doesn't even promise the jersey is from Pineda.

-If he was there he was wearing a jersey, they probably consider that game-used, or game-worn as is being used these days.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:47 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by friarbolt View Post
It's not fraud if he signed the cards. Doesn't matter if he called himself Batman, if that guy signed the cards then it's not fraud.
True... he can sign the cards however he wants, but the contract he signed with Topps through the players association is void because he signed with a pseudonym. That's fraud... and he was compensated for it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterD View Post
True... he can sign the cards however he wants, but the contract he signed with Topps through the players association is void because he signed with a pseudonym. That's fraud... and he was compensated for it.
Even if that's true he duped Topps like he did everyone else. There's no case against Topps for that they will say they didn't know.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I'll still sleep perfectly fine tonight.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lee7786 View Post
Topps doesn't say it was a bat. Game used memorabilia, piece of wood from anything at all made of wood, doesn't matter. I think Topps pretty much mailed it in with most "relic" cards a while ago. To say they've become careless about it isn't a stretch. Not surprised at all to see this.
Exactly. Could be a piece of plywood laying around in the bullpen.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:50 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScooterD View Post
True... he can sign the cards however he wants, but the contract he signed with Topps through the players association is void because he signed with a pseudonym. That's fraud... and he was compensated for it.
As a fellow Terrapin brother, I will gladly afford you the benefit of the doubt. What is your endgame here my man?
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