Blowout Cards Forums
eBay Card Event 4/27/14

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASEBALL

BASEBALL Post your Baseball Cards Hobby Talk

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2013, 12:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,195
Default Card grading is such a joke

I have submitted to bgs several times. I dont know if I have always got tough graders or what but cards I expect to get 9.5 come back as 8.5. I look at sub grades and cards that are centered perfectly to the eye get 8.5 or 9 and cards that are visibly off center get 9.5.

Decided to do a little test. I submitted to psa.

I broke about 12 cards out of bgs 8.5 and 9.0 cases.
I broke 5 out of psa cases (all psa 9 but looked 10 to me)
I sent 5 raw that upon close inspection should be 9 or 10

Here are the results.

2 1 21064858 GEM MINT 10 2005 BOWMAN CHROME 331 JUSTIN VERLANDER AUTOGRAPH Card
3 1 21064859 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 2 21064860 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 3 21064861 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 4 21064862 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 5 21064863 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 6 21064864 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 7 21064865 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 8 21064866 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
3 9 21064867 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH Card
4 1 21064868 MINT 9 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPHS-SILVER Card
4 2 21064869 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPHS-SILVER Card
5 1 21064870 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH-BLACK Card
5 2 21064871 GEM MINT 10 2003 JUST STARS 7 MIGUEL CABRERA AUTOGRAPH-BLACK Card
6 1 21064872 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 2000 ROYAL ROOKIES FUTURES AUTOGRAPHS 6 MIGUEL CABRERA Card
7 1 21064873 GEM MINT 10 2000 TOPPS TRADED T40 MIGUEL CABRERA Card
7 2 21064874 GEM MINT 10 2000 TOPPS TRADED T40 MIGUEL CABRERA Card
7 3 21064875 GEM MINT 10 2000 TOPPS TRADED T40 MIGUEL CABRERA Card
8 1 21064876 MINT 9 1989 UPPER DECK 1 KEN GRIFFEY JR. STAR ROOKIE Card
9 1 21064877 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 2012 TOPPS TRIPLE THREADS UNITY RELICS 3 ALEX AVILA GOLD Card
10 1 21064878 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 2011 BOWMAN CHROME DRAFT PICKS & PROSPECTS 31 ANDY DIRKS ORANGE REFRACTOR Card
brianbye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #2 (permalink)
Member
 
burke23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,841
Default

So...what's what? Both companies weigh different parts differently - IE BGS is much harsher on the centering and surface of the back of the card, where BGS will allow a bigger flaw on a 9.5 as they will allow a 9 subgrade, which can be a noticeable surface flaw or o/c that PSA may not typically allow on a 10.

That being said - it is still an opinion, so don't expect consistency - ha. Be happy - lots of 10's.
__________________
Bucket -http://s599.photobucket.com/albums/tt72/avrules2000
Looking for rare/low numbered Randy Moss rookies (IE E-X Credentials, Ultra Platinum Medallion, etc)
burke23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:55 PM   #3 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,195
Default

Yeah,

7 bgs 8.5 crossed to psa 10
all psa 9's that were cracked came back as 10, except 1 that was graded as n6(altered) even though I broke it out of a psa 9 case.
brianbye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 12:58 PM   #4 (permalink)
Member
 
WCTYSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Inside your conscience
Posts: 13,835
Default

I am to sure what your test proves, to be honest with you. The grading criteria is different between BGS and PSA.

PSA Grading Standards

Not to mention, PSA does not grade the auto.

None of this matters though, if your dog still eats the slabs. Either chain up the dog or put your cards away.
WCTYSON is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
Member
 
nateyad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: South Central, PA
Posts: 1,523
Default

All this tells me is PSA isn't worth the Charmin I wipe my butt with!
nateyad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
Member
 
JBBurnsRed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Lancaster, PA
Posts: 134
Default

I've always been curious what would happen if cards were broken from the slabs and regraded. I agree grading is silly. People pay an arm and a leg for something graded when it's the same card ungraded. If you are grading so you can resell it to someone who cares about that sort of thing, cool, but if you are grading a card you already love and intend on keeping why waste the money? It's yours already and if it's great to you, who cares what the graders have to say? Just my opinion.
__________________
Collecting Cliff Lee, and Justin De Fratus.
JBBurnsRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:09 PM   #7 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,195
Default

Check out the centering on this brentz ?
Attached Thumbnails
Card grading is such a joke-brentz.jpg  
brianbye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,320
Send a message via MSN to asujbl
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nateyad View Post
All this tells me is PSA isn't worth the Charmin I wipe my butt with!
Edit that - Read the OP wrong
__________________
http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/ohiosundevils
Want to save 5-15% on your purchase? Check my feedback and pay via Check/MO/Cash
I do not ACCEPT or SEND Gift Payments - Thanks
asujbl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:15 PM   #9 (permalink)
Member
 
WCTYSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Inside your conscience
Posts: 13,835
Default

Here is a prime example of why a lot of sellers that know they will get less than a 10 auto will grade with PSA instead.

Oscar Taveras 2012 Bowman Chrome Auto RC PSA 10 Gem Mint | eBay
WCTYSON is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
Member
 
hearseguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Medical Lake, WA
Posts: 774
Default

Both grading companies have their faults and I have seen similar results before crossing from PSA to BGS. Basically, as long as there is a human element invlolved in the grading process, there will be inconsistancy.
hearseguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
Member
 
WCTYSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Inside your conscience
Posts: 13,835
Default

Here is another example of a PSA grade that never would have got a BGS 9.5 and may not have got a BGS 9, but PSA graded it a 10. Again, the criteria is very different between the two. If you think grading is such a joke, why are you doing it?

2005 Bowman Chrome 331 Justin Verlander Rookie Auto PSA 10 | eBay

Or are you just upset that your cards did not meet the critera from BGS to get 9's and up?
WCTYSON is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #12 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 15,320
Send a message via MSN to asujbl
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hearseguy View Post
Both grading companies have their faults and I have seen similar results before crossing from PSA to BGS. Basically, as long as there is a human element invlolved in the grading process, there will be inconsistancy.
It's really this simple
__________________
http://s282.photobucket.com/albums/kk269/ohiosundevils
Want to save 5-15% on your purchase? Check my feedback and pay via Check/MO/Cash
I do not ACCEPT or SEND Gift Payments - Thanks
asujbl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 01:24 PM   #13 (permalink)
Member
 
Coug46n2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Washington State
Posts: 3,401
Default

There was a PSA 10 1986 Topps Traded Clark in the BST thread yesterday. Centering, AT BEST, would have been BGS 8.5. Grading companies don't have the same standards and graders within each company don't have the same standards.

I dislike ebay auctions that say "I have 3 of these available" and only give you scans of one. Even when it comes to graded cards I won't buy unless my own eye test assures me the card is graded appropriately and to MY standards.

I also have to believe all companies grade a bit low hoping for more resubmissions to jack up their profits. If a beautiful Gem Mint card comes in, why not give it a 9 and hope the owner resubmits a second time? It's a sleezy practice, but it works.
__________________
Current needs: Kirby Puckett Relics, Game Used, Patches, Inserts, & Parallels. Also looking for BGS 9.5 Topps RCs from 1980-current.
Coug46n2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 02:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
Member
 
charnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 801
Default

haha, that Will Clark was mine... and I totally agree with you that the centering was NOT 50/50... I'd guess BGS would sub that centering at 8.5/9.0 at best. I was actually getting it slabbed to keep for myself, but when it came back a 10, I figured I'd try to get something for it. I also got back a Bo Jackson RC from that same 1986 Topps Traded set, that was dead on 50/50 and everything looked just as good as the thrill, and yet was only a 9.
charnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 02:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 313
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBBurnsRed View Post
I've always been curious what would happen if cards were broken from the slabs and regraded. I agree grading is silly. People pay an arm and a leg for something graded when it's the same card ungraded. If you are grading so you can resell it to someone who cares about that sort of thing, cool, but if you are grading a card you already love and intend on keeping why waste the money? It's yours already and if it's great to you, who cares what the graders have to say? Just my opinion.
This +1. I liked it better before grading became prevalent.
rkuhn3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 02:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 653
Default

In the vintage world it is very different for me. I don't use PSA for the grade. In fact I love a good PSA 3 or 4 on a vintage card.

Where I use it is in the authentication of a card. I know that is not a perfect system either, but at least it is another set of eyes to say a card is legit.

P.S. I am also addicted to the registry.
__________________
Collector of Josh Hamilton, Michael Young, Ivan Rodriguez and HOFer Autos
Moyni is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 03:47 PM   #17 (permalink)
Member
 
burke23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,841
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WCTYSON View Post
Here is another example of a PSA grade that never would have got a BGS 9.5 and may not have got a BGS 9, but PSA graded it a 10. Again, the criteria is very different between the two. If you think grading is such a joke, why are you doing it?

2005 Bowman Chrome 331 Justin Verlander Rookie Auto PSA 10 | eBay

Or are you just upset that your cards did not meet the critera from BGS to get 9's and up?
WHat am I missing on this?
__________________
Bucket -http://s599.photobucket.com/albums/tt72/avrules2000
Looking for rare/low numbered Randy Moss rookies (IE E-X Credentials, Ultra Platinum Medallion, etc)
burke23 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:16 PM   #18 (permalink)
Member
 
charnick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 801
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moyni View Post
In the vintage world it is very different for me. I don't use PSA for the grade. In fact I love a good PSA 3 or 4 on a vintage card.

Where I use it is in the authentication of a card. I know that is not a perfect system either, but at least it is another set of eyes to say a card is legit.

P.S. I am also addicted to the registry.
i'm with moyni on this, though i don't utilize the set registry at all. i probably should though... most of my vintage (including and up to the mid-70's) PSA's in my PC are between 3-7 with a couple of outliers, and i'm fine with all of them. centering is tops to me personally, so i don't mind dinged corners on my 50 year old cards so long as the eye appeal is there. it's good to know the condition is locked in from here on, and should the need arise to ever have to sell them (though i hope i won't have to) then the authenticity won't be called into question, and the buyer knows what they're getting.
charnick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2013, 04:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
Member
 
JohnRyno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: baltimore
Posts: 2,943
Send a message via Skype™ to JohnRyno
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkuhn3 View Post
This +1. I liked it better before grading became prevalent.
When did card grading become prevalent? I was out of the hobby for a pretty long time while I was going Kerouac on everyone's ass.

Anyway to get a quick history of card grading?
JohnRyno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2013, 07:59 AM   #20 (permalink)
Member
 
JOEMLM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: traveling all over
Posts: 366
Exclamation PSA sucks so bad, let me count the ways

so you think that is bad, what about this


that is a fake AP counterfeit with a fake AP auto

here is a psa graded card,

what? can you see, the case was cracked open, the flip turned around and resealed WITH NO SIGNS OF TAMPERING, oh yeah, the card was changed as well, but you noticed that... right? RIGHT!

here are some flips images taken from cards for sale on ebay,

i am just showing you the flips, can you see what i see? all the bar codes match!
did you know each card is supposed to have a UNIQUE bar code?!?

not only does PSA/DNA do a bad job, they are doing NOTHING about the fraud done in their name

need more? i can go on all day
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkQc_akCzv0

http://www.youtube.com/JOEMLM
JOEMLM is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.