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Old 01-30-2010, 05:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mwheeler27 View Post
I don't do it for Dr. Price. I do it so those unsuspecting collectors know the truth about Dick and his company of crooks. (Dick is the head honcho at upper deck).
Come on Wheels. You can rip UD and Dick without mentioning SKs.

I have to go but I'm predicting when I log back in late tonight there will be almost 1,000 views to this thread which is currently under 400.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:37 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Come on Wheels. You can rip UD and Dick without mentioning SKs.

I have to go but I'm predicting when I log back in late tonight there will be almost 1,000 views to this thread which is currently under 400.
I wasn't the first to mention SK. SK was bashed in this thread. If you read the whole thing, you would have seen that I mentioned SK "in defense", as is what I will do from now on over here.

Honestly, I can't believe people want to bash SK and continue to buy upper deck. Talk about a joke. LOL
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:40 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Mwheeler27 and I never agree but in his defense he never brought SK up, someone else egged him into it.

Anyway, I'm sure Upper Deck is going to argue fair use rights on uniforms in photography. Generally work uniforms are regarded as fair use and require no licensing for photography.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:42 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Makes me wonder if those Ultimate Patches could be fake then, as astonishing as they are.
Some of them are questionable based on the material they are made out of - particularly the pieces from numbers.
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Old 01-30-2010, 05:46 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Mwheeler27 and I never agree but in his defense he never brought SK up, someone else egged him into it.
You're a good man Beaverman.
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:19 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I bet the memorabilia from the vintage players is Mitchell and Ness Jerseys, serious where can they get all those game used pieces in that much quanity. heres a question is the stuff in Exquisite basketball real or fake?

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Old 01-30-2010, 06:32 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Shouldn't it be if you like it buy it and if you don't....don't. I mean when the life gets choked out of every product, everytime...it just gets a little much. I feel like if you enjoy it, whether it be SK or UD or Tristar or whatever and you want to spend your hard earned money on it...good on you and hope the best for you.
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:36 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Shouldn't it be if you like it buy it and if you don't....don't. I mean when the life gets choked out of every product, everytime...it just gets a little much. I feel like if you enjoy it, whether it be SK or UD or Tristar or whatever and you want to spend your hard earned money on it...good on you and hope the best for you.
I agree to a point.

Let me put it this way...

- Would you pay $50 for a $100 dollar bill?

- Now, would you pay $50 for a counterfeit $100 dollar bill? How about if the counterfeit was so good that you couldn't tell it was fake, yet you knew it was?

- How low does the price have to be for you to buy that $100 dollar counterfeit bill? $20? $1? 50 cents?

Obviously the overwhelming majority would say "yes" to the first question, and there are still some that would say "yes" to the 2nd, although I hope it's very, very few. Why are cards so different?
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Old 01-30-2010, 06:40 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I liked Donruss/Playoff Leaf back 2005 and before when they would put a picture of the game used item on the back of the card and showed the collector thats what it came from.
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:02 PM   #35 (permalink)
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My thoughts-

I could care less if Upper Deck goes under. I haven't bought anything from them in a couple of years and very few iterms over the past decade.

I have no doubt that UD has used fake items in their cards.

UD has back doored items for years

I'm a CHROME guy through and through!!!
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Old 01-30-2010, 07:44 PM   #36 (permalink)
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I don't understand how Upperdeck is still in business. I know artists that worked for them doing sketch cards for the Marvel Masterpieces products who weren't paid for over 6 months past the agreed upon payment date. It's a poorly run company with very poor business ethics.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:02 PM   #37 (permalink)
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The issue isn't whether or not UD makes nice products. I think we all agree that UD has a wide range of products that appeal to many, many people. The issue is that why would people still spend their money on a product produced by a company that's guilty of cheating and deceiving it's customers. I'm torn because I'm a Yankees fan, and UD has always had products loaded with Yankees (Jeter signing rights,etc.) but after all the lawsuits for counterfeiting and shady practices pushing the envelope on licensing rights, I refuse to pay money for a product that if I was ever lucky enough to get a big hit, I couldn't even trust that it wasn't a fake. I'm not going to buy a product I like the looks of if I don't know if the cards are what they say they are. That's asinine.
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:08 PM   #38 (permalink)
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I don't understand how Upperdeck is still in business. I know artists that worked for them doing sketch cards for the Marvel Masterpieces products who weren't paid for over 6 months past the agreed upon payment date. It's a poorly run company with very poor business ethics.
I forgot about this part of their unethical business practices. I know from first hand accounts of people not getting paid when they are supposed to for work they did for upper deck. In fact, of the cases I know about, upper deck asked AFTER THE FACT if it was alright to pay them in product instead of cash. WHAT? No wonder they want to pay them with sealed product when they counterfeit cards.

Upper deck seriously needs to go down. Someone needs to put them out of business. They have a terrible BBB rating. Add that to all the proven unethical and illegal activities, and some government or legal entity should shut them down!

Where is the cease and desist order? Shouldn't someone protect those collectors that don't pay attention to online forums and legals documents?
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Here's a scan of the seaver jersey card from Ultimate.





The piece is from the racing stripe on the jersey. I looked at the pattern of the material and compared it to the jerseys from my collection (I own one of every authentic on-field jersey the Mets have had). Seaver played for the Mets again for one season - 1983. That was the first year for the racing stripe on the Mets uniforms...however, the pattern doesn't match the '83 jersey by Rawlings or CCM (both supplied uniforms to the team until Russell got the contract in late '90). It matches the '91 racing stripe from Russell. This jersey was the same, however, it was made of a thicker polyester and was a button-down jersey as opposed to the pullover style of the '83-'90 jerseys. Not only were the pinstripes different, so were the racing stripes. So I personally have my doubts....
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:53 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Here's a scan of the seaver jersey card from Ultimate.





The piece is from the racing stripe on the jersey. I looked at the pattern of the material and compared it to the jerseys from my collection (I own one of every authentic on-field jersey the Mets have had). Seaver played for the Mets again for one season - 1983. That was the first year for the racing stripe on the Mets uniforms...however, the pattern doesn't match the '83 jersey by Rawlings or CCM (both supplied uniforms to the team until Russell got the contract in late '90). It matches the '91 racing stripe from Russell. This jersey was the same, however, it was made of a thicker polyester and was a button-down jersey as opposed to the pullover style of the '83-'90 jerseys. Not only were the pinstripes different, so were the racing stripes. So I personally have my doubts....
Wow! If this was proven to be true, it would be the end of upper deck for sure. I don't care what anyone else says about "how big upper deck is", yadda, yadda, yadda. If upper deck was proven to have mislead collectors like this, they would be finished!
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:07 PM   #41 (permalink)
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What I find equally disturbing is the lack of common sense......it's a card of him with the White Sox with a Mets jersey piece. Of the other Seaver cards pulled from this set, two of them are White Sox cards with Reds jersey pieces...I mean, c'mon. It's not that hard, is it? I want to see more with Mets pieces in them so I can compare them.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:09 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Here's a scan of the seaver jersey card from Ultimate.

//image

The piece is from the racing stripe on the jersey. I looked at the pattern of the material and compared it to the jerseys from my collection (I own one of every authentic on-field jersey the Mets have had). Seaver played for the Mets again for one season - 1983. That was the first year for the racing stripe on the Mets uniforms...however, the pattern doesn't match the '83 jersey by Rawlings or CCM (both supplied uniforms to the team until Russell got the contract in late '90). It matches the '91 racing stripe from Russell. This jersey was the same, however, it was made of a thicker polyester and was a button-down jersey as opposed to the pullover style of the '83-'90 jerseys. Not only were the pinstripes different, so were the racing stripes. So I personally have my doubts....
Could that 'patch' be from the design around the sleeves of that old-style White Sox jersey?
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:11 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I don't recall the White Sox ever having orange and blue in their uniforms...I remember ridiculous looking shorts and butterfly collars...That particular card is clearly from the Mets racing stripe.
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:35 PM   #44 (permalink)
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What I find equally disturbing is the lack of common sense......it's a card of him with the White Sox with a Mets jersey piece. Of the other Seaver cards pulled from this set, two of them are White Sox cards with Reds jersey pieces...I mean, c'mon. It's not that hard, is it? I want to see more with Mets pieces in them so I can compare them.

You could read what is written at the back , most of the game used cards have their backs written this way

"The memorabilia has been certified to us as having been used in a baseball game ."


as for the Autograph Memorabilia

it usually says

" You have received a trading card with Game-Used Baseball memorabilia and an Autograph of PLAYER X"

i do find this certification as vague

never in the writing did it indicate the the memorabilia was personally worn by the player that signed the card. Only thing that is being certified are the autographs done by the player themselves
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:40 PM   #45 (permalink)
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You're absolutely right. The wording is ambiguous and for good reason. We all poke fun at that ambiguity on relic cards, because it is, quite frankly, ridiculous that a company can't provide proof where something came from. Sure, that jersey piece could've come from Kelvin Torve and used in a game at Shea Stadium on a night when Tom Seaver's greatest highlights were shown on the Mitsubishi Diamond Vision screen in left center......
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:43 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Wow! If this was proven to be true, it would be the end of upper deck for sure. I don't care what anyone else says about "how big upper deck is", yadda, yadda, yadda. If upper deck was proven to have mislead collectors like this, they would be finished!
No questions asked. It would be the end of UD for sure.

I've never had any problems with UD, so I can't complain about them.

In fact, all of the decent hits I've pulled have come from UD (cut HOF, another cut, and a few patch autos). I never get anything from Topps (except Heritage).
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Old 01-30-2010, 09:49 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I was just looking at the Ted Williams patches on ebay and they just don't look right. I've never seen any vintage jersey released in a product have that look to it. Could be wrong, but none of this smells right.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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I was just looking at the Ted Williams patches on ebay and they just don't look right. I've never seen any vintage jersey released in a product have that look to it. Could be wrong, but none of this smells right.
They look like some nice, clean, white jersey pieces, don't they? I have no idea if they look right or not. I wish I could have an educated opinion on them, but I don't.

What do the backs say? Anyone know?
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:04 PM   #49 (permalink)
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What I find equally disturbing is the lack of common sense......it's a card of him with the White Sox with a Mets jersey piece. Of the other Seaver cards pulled from this set, two of them are White Sox cards with Reds jersey pieces...I mean, c'mon. It's not that hard, is it? I want to see more with Mets pieces in them so I can compare them.
I don't have any in front of me at the moment, but it is not uncommon to have the player pictured in one uniform and have the jersey piece come from another team he played on. I've seen it many times.
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Old 01-30-2010, 10:05 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I don't have any in front of me at the moment, but it is not uncommon to have the player pictured in one uniform and have the jersey piece come from another team he played on. I've seen it many times.
I wonder if all companies do this, or just a few lazy ones?
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