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Old 10-22-2013, 09:32 PM   #26 (permalink)
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No kidding! That was my thought: That's a lot of coin for a bullpen arm.

But as a Dodger fan, go ahead and blow your wad on used-up arms. The Giants can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag but they waste money on so-so pitching? Sounds good to me! We get Wilson for $1MM and they get The Freak for $35MM? In the immortal words of our generations finest thespian, Mr. Charlie Sheen: "Duh. Winning."
Love how that 1 million investment won you a world series.
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:38 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by briscogun View Post
No kidding! That was my thought: That's a lot of coin for a bullpen arm.

But as a Dodger fan, go ahead and blow your wad on used-up arms. The Giants can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag but they waste money on so-so pitching? Sounds good to me! We get Wilson for $1MM and they get The Freak for $35MM? In the immortal words of our generations finest thespian, Mr. Charlie Sheen: "Duh. Winning."
You are comparing an average at best closer that has two tommy johns to a starting pitcher who did pitch a no hitter this year. And how about those dodger bats in that NLCS?
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:49 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I actually am curious to know if there are any promises on either side on moving to the bullpen should .... things change. I doubt that would ever be public anyway.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:03 PM   #29 (permalink)
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He was re-signed to start. The chance that he would move to the bullpen full-time is somewhere between slim and none.

It's a bit of an overpayment by the Giants, just like the Hunter Pence deal was, but I'm pretty sure both guys would have gotten at least $15 million a year had they been allowed to hit the open market.

Now the question is what the Giants are going to do next? They've still got to figure out the 4th/5th spots in the rotation (would love to see them sign Tanaka), have a big hole in left field, and need to strengthen the front end of the bullpen (the 6th/7th/8th inning guys were horrible last year compared to the 2012 guys).
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Love how that 1 million investment won you a world series.
They didn't lose because of Wilson. What else you got?

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You are comparing an average at best closer that has two tommy johns to a starting pitcher who did pitch a no hitter this year. And how about those dodger bats in that NLCS?
No, I'm comparing value for the money. I'll take the effective pitcher, albeit a reliever, for 1/35th of an arguably ineffective pitcher who's has a great past and only shown flashes of his former self. Stick to the topic. The point has nothing to do with the offensive numbers the Dodgers did or didn't put up. But nice try at trolling.
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Old 10-22-2013, 10:45 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Nobody would've touched Lincecum on the open market with a qualifying offer. Who wants to offer anywhere close to the amount the Giants did, and give up a draft pick for a 1 or 2 year deal?

Giants had so much leverage, and they just gave in to a mid rotation-back end starter.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:06 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Considering the rest of the SP market this year, I don't mind the move
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:28 PM   #33 (permalink)
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They didn't lose because of Wilson. What else you got?



No, I'm comparing value for the money. I'll take the effective pitcher, albeit a reliever, for 1/35th of an arguably ineffective pitcher who's has a great past and only shown flashes of his former self. Stick to the topic. The point has nothing to do with the offensive numbers the Dodgers did or didn't put up. But nice try at trolling.

Guess you got me. Over paying doesn't win Championships. Isn't that right Dodger fans? Did I get you now?
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:35 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Plugging an article by a friend for beyondtheboxscore on the Lincecum deal:
Tim Lincecum extension reaction - Beyond the Box Score
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:59 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Plugging an article by a friend for beyondtheboxscore on the Lincecum deal:
Tim Lincecum extension reaction - Beyond the Box Score
Great article! It's good to see a logical, facts-driven view of the deal.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:05 AM   #36 (permalink)
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They didn't lose because of Wilson. What else you got?



No, I'm comparing value for the money. I'll take the effective pitcher, albeit a reliever, for 1/35th of an arguably ineffective pitcher who's has a great past and only shown flashes of his former self. Stick to the topic. The point has nothing to do with the offensive numbers the Dodgers did or didn't put up. But nice try at trolling.
You were the one that said the giants couldn't hit their way out of a wet paper bag in your first post. I'm not sure how what I said was off topic when it was in response to you.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:10 AM   #37 (permalink)
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The second half of this season he actually pitched really well. The season and a half before that however he was terrible. Still seems like a few million/yr too much though.
Probably too much but he is a fan favorite and I'm sure the base will appreciate keeping most of the team together.

I think he's made the turn and becoming a pitcher instead of just a hurler. If he keeps it up he should be able to get back to somewhere under 3.5 era and eat up innings.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:24 AM   #38 (permalink)
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You are comparing an average at best closer that has two tommy johns to a starting pitcher who did pitch a no hitter this year. And how about those dodger bats in that NLCS?
What do the Dodger bats have to do with Brian Wilson?
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:29 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I think the fact that the Giants only have two starters under contract besides Lincecum has to be factored into Sabean's decision to slightly overpay.

Given how much competition there is going to be for the few decent starters out there, the fact that the Giants will now only need to sign 1-2 starters in free agency rather than 2-3 makes a huge difference.

Given how many starters the Giants need to sign, they likely would have had to overpay just as much to sign someone else instead of Lincecum.
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:36 AM   #40 (permalink)
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They didn't lose because of Wilson. What else you got?



No, I'm comparing value for the money. I'll take the effective pitcher, albeit a reliever, for 1/35th of an arguably ineffective pitcher who's has a great past and only shown flashes of his former self. Stick to the topic. The point has nothing to do with the offensive numbers the Dodgers did or didn't put up. But nice try at trolling.
Meh, to pick on any team for over paying for any player is probably silly consideirng most teams probably have payroll skeletons in the closet....for example the Dodgers are still paying Andruw Jones each year...he, uh, left the team in 2008-2009 (think he is due like 13 million something more too from Dodgers)..playing in Japan currently. On top of which you're speculating without inside information, it's the Giants org.'s money, maybe they see something worth that. Maybe Lincecum brings in a lot of memorabilia money...he is a fan favorite. As for Brian Wilson, Dodger fans used to make fun of Giants fans and him specifically..lol...funny to see Dodgers fans wearing the same beards many used to make fun of Giants fans for sporting at games. Furthermore, the Dodgers deal on Wilson was at first a gamble, they did not know he would be fully effective before making their deal with him...this is also why they got him at such a cheap price...not because it was some smart financial move...it was a somewhat logical gamble, but to the average joe that's probably the equivalent of some rich dudes using wads of money to light their smokes.

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Old 10-23-2013, 12:42 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Much as I'd like to say Lincecum is overpaid...



Yeah, about that......
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:51 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by briscogun View Post
No kidding! That was my thought: That's a lot of coin for a bullpen arm.

But as a Dodger fan, go ahead and blow your wad on used-up arms. The Giants can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag but they waste money on so-so pitching? Sounds good to me! We get Wilson for $1MM and they get The Freak for $35MM? In the immortal words of our generations finest thespian, Mr. Charlie Sheen: "Duh. Winning."

except that Dodgers aren't 'winning' either, they'll be sitting at home watching the World Series Game #1 just like the Giants
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Old 10-23-2013, 12:53 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I think the fact that the Giants only have two starters under contract besides Lincecum has to be factored into Sabean's decision to slightly overpay.

Given how much competition there is going to be for the few decent starters out there, the fact that the Giants will now only need to sign 1-2 starters in free agency rather than 2-3 makes a huge difference.

Given how many starters the Giants need to sign, they likely would have had to overpay just as much to sign someone else instead of Lincecum.

they really only seriously need to look for one starter as they are pretty high on Petit and how he did this past season to give him a big chance to grab the 5 spot
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:06 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by briscogun View Post
No kidding! That was my thought: That's a lot of coin for a bullpen arm.

But as a Dodger fan, go ahead and blow your wad on used-up arms. The Giants can't hit their way out of a wet paper bag but they waste money on so-so pitching? Sounds good to me! We get Wilson for $1MM and they get The Freak for $35MM? In the immortal words of our generations finest thespian, Mr. Charlie Sheen: "Duh. Winning."

people can say the same about the Dodgers as well right? Josh Beckett was 0-5 with an ERA over 5 and the Dodgers will be paying him 17 million next year. Heck Andre Ethier hit .272 and 12 hrs & the Dodgers will be paying him an average of 17 million a year until 2018. Matt Kemp is signed through 2019 but since signing the huge contract his production has leveled off and he can't stay healthy. What are the chances the Dodgers get their moneys worth on his contract?
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Old 10-23-2013, 08:30 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Guess you got me. Over paying doesn't win Championships. Isn't that right Dodger fans? Did I get you now?
BOOM! Awesome reply! Couldn't have said it better myself. Legendary stuff!
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:02 AM   #46 (permalink)
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I am sick and tired of Sabes and Bochy getting free rides for a hot streak and lucky signings. Way to blow half the money we have this off-season on another Huff esque contract (Pence got rewarded too). We have less than 15 million to sign another 1 or 2 starters, 1 or 2 outfielders, a couple relievers, and another bench guys. We've been stingy with increasing our cap past few seasons too. Not a good start...
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:39 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I am sick and tired of Sabes and Bochy getting free rides for a hot streak and lucky signings. Way to blow half the money we have this off-season on another Huff esque contract (Pence got rewarded too). We have less than 15 million to sign another 1 or 2 starters, 1 or 2 outfielders, a couple relievers, and another bench guys. We've been stingy with increasing our cap past few seasons too. Not a good start...
Maybe you're too young to appreciate all the years in the wilderness, but given that I waited 41 long years for the Giants to win the World Series, Bochy and Sabean get free rides even if they never do another thing right the rest of their baseball lives. Every team that wins the World Series benefits from luck and hot streaks...the trick is getting your team into a good enough position to benefit from them...'cause you know....I don't think Cain, Bumgarner, Lincecum, Posey, or Sandoval drafted themselves....and I'm pretty sure that Freddy Sanchez, Marco Scutaro, and Hunter Pence didn't trade themselves to the Giants.

Regarding the Lincecum signing, you gotta remember three things. First, the Giants (and every other team) are about to get $30 million per year in extra cash from the new TV contracts.

Second, Sabean did not want to enter free agency with only two starters under contract.

Third, his choice was to overpay a bit for Lincecum now, or to overpay for some other starter once free agency starts. The number of teams looking for starters is far greater than the number of decent starters who are going to hit the market, and I'm sure we are going to see plenty of other "overpays" once free agency starts. Even having signed Lincecum, the Giants still need to sign another starter....
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