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Old 03-29-2014, 01:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Epic 1/1 Fail...My ongoing Trevor Rosenthal nightmare

So last fall I was buying into lots of St Louis Cardinals team case breaks. I hit some nice cards for my PC that way, and actually my first ever 1/1. Topps Triple Threads Rookie Patch Auto of Trevor Rosenthal. A pretty sick card:



So I receive the 1/1 and to my surprise, shock, disappointment, whatever, the card is place directly in a top loader with no penny sleeve!!!!!!!!!!!! As you could guess, there was damage done to the card. I contacted the breaker and he said he had similar complaints and he had let go of his shipping guy for this oversight. He tells me he wants to make things right. This is the right thing for him to say, of course, but it still hurts, being a Cardinals fan and this being truly a one of a kind card. Here are some pictures of the damages. Most of the back corners began to peel back, and while there are not any major scratches on the front, I'm sure if looked at carefully there are some minor ones caused by the lack of a penny sleeve. Here are some pictures of the damages:






So I'm not naming the breaker because he has promised over and over again to make things right. Well it's almost April and all of my emails to him about getting a spot in another break "have been going to his spam folder for some reason." I've requested to join many breaks with now response or a delayed response after the break has been filled. So, I have a few questions for you all.

1: How much does the damage bring down the value of the card? What would the value of this card be in mint condition and what is the value in this state?

2: What would the proper response be for the breaker? Basically, what, if anything, should I be getting in return for my damages?

3: Is anyone interested in this card? I'm a huge Cardinals fan but honestly this card just has left a sour taste in my mouth. It is a pretty awesome card but it also brings up bad memories.



Thanks for looking and for any and all opinions.

Last edited by siebertb; 03-29-2014 at 02:13 PM.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The damage is detrimental to the value of the card. It went from Gem Mint/Mint status 9.5-8.5 to a near mint 7 or 6.5.

The breaker should take the card back and pay you the full value of the card. The card value should be determined by you and the breaker based on the recent sales of the other parallels of that same card. (I would put the value at or around $125 for an undamaged card).

Keep the card until you resolve the matter with the breaker.

DO NOT PEEL. It will peel off at least the black ink on the back of the card and irreparably damage the card.

Tell us who the breaker is.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:05 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Whatever you do, DO NOT PEEL IT!!! Lol Bad idea.

Also, I would suggest to just let it go IMO. With 180pt card stock, they are pretty much never in mint condition. While the breaker should have gotten back to you, it's not exactly "a Trevor Rothensal nightmare" or an "epic 1/1 fail". It's not that bad. You got a nice 1/1 card. You still made out nicely! A small gesture would be nice, but not the end of the world. If everyone complained to the breaker that their thick stock cards arrived in less than mint condition, he would be out of business.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:07 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by enyouartist View Post
Whatever you do, DO NOT PEEL IT!!! Lol Bad idea.

Also, I would suggest to just let it go IMO. With 180pt card stock, they are pretty much never in mint condition. While the breaker should have gotten back to you, it's not exactly "a Trevor Rothensal nightmare". You got a nice 1/1 card. You still made out nicely! A small gesture would be nice, but not the end of the world. If everyone complained to the breaker that their thick stock cards arrived in less than mint condition, he would be out of business.
I disagree. The card wasn't placed in a sleeve or taped on the top to prevent damage. It's a gross oversight that could have been prevented if the breaker was a little more careful.

If the card comes out of the package damaged, that's one thing. If the card is damaged by the negligence of the breaker, there should be compensation.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by enyouartist View Post
Whatever you do, DO NOT PEEL IT!!! Lol Bad idea.

Also, I would suggest to just let it go IMO. With 180pt card stock, they are pretty much never in mint condition. While the breaker should have gotten back to you, it's not exactly "a Trevor Rothensal nightmare". You got a nice 1/1 card. You still made out nicely! A small gesture would be nice, but not the end of the world. If everyone complained to the breaker that their thick stock cards arrived in less than mint condition, he would be out of business.
OK I won't peel haha.

But I have to disagree on just letting it go. Yes, thick stock cards have damage to them often, but this damage could have easily been avoided by placing the card in a penny sleeve before the toploader. It was laziness/incompetence by the breaker that caused this damage, not the natural wear due to the nature of the card.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:11 PM   #6 (permalink)
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its been way to long. ask for thecard value in refund and oust the guy for him giving you the run around,
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Please name the breaker. It's in our best interest and we can make up our own minds whether to do business with him or not.

As a Cards fan btw, I'd be heartbroken.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jumbogorilla View Post
The damage is detrimental to the value of the card. It went from Gem Mint/Mint status 9.5-8.5 to a near mint 7 or 6.5.

The breaker should take the card back and pay you the full value of the card. The card value should be determined by you and the breaker based on the recent sales of the other parallels of that same card. (I would put the value at or around $125 for an undamaged card).

Keep the card until you resolve the matter with the breaker.

DO NOT PEEL. It will peel off at least the black ink on the back of the card and irreparably damage the card.

Tell us who the breaker is.

I removed the question about peeling the back

Printing plates and other similar patch auto 1/1s go from anywhere from 100-250 so I agree on the value of the card somewhat. I just don't think the breaker will be willing to pay full value. I guess I understand if I returned it, he would pay full value though.

Anyway he offered free/discounted breaks but has never come through. The last time I asked about the Cardinals spot in the Museum Collection case break and he said he didn't value the card at the price point of the Cardinals spot, but also said he didn't even remember which card it was and what damage was done.

I'm not going to name him yet but he is running out of time on "making things right."
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:24 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siebertb View Post
I removed the question about peeling the back

Printing plates and other similar patch auto 1/1s go from anywhere from 100-250 so I agree on the value of the card somewhat. I just don't think the breaker will be willing to pay full value. I guess I understand if I returned it, he would pay full value though.

Anyway he offered free/discounted breaks but has never come through. The last time I asked about the Cardinals spot in the Museum Collection case break and he said he didn't value the card at the price point of the Cardinals spot, but also said he didn't even remember which card it was and what damage was done.

I'm not going to name him yet but he is running out of time on "making things right."

Grow a pair and tell us who the guy is.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's 1/1, so difficult to say what it's worth, 'tho if there's sales precedent on 1/1 cards that's decent gauge.

Since it's 1/1, if someone wants it, they can't get it in better condition. However, if it were handled properly, if graded a 9.5 which is a reasonable possibility, it could have garnered greater multiples on the value and more attention.

It is a prospect card of sort of a lackluster pitcher who went 0-2 in 2012 and 2-4 last season, and is a closer w/ 3 saves... I'd not put too much faith in the value of closers, other than Mariano, all other closers like Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman, Denis Eckersley, etc are not that highly valued, so even if he becomes great, let alone good or decent, as opposed to mediocre which he probably will be in terms of having HOF stats, you're best off selling it now to anyone interested in buying it. Just look at the list of all time saves leaders and know most of their cards aren't generally in high demand, 'tho a "1/1" is a game changer, you still, as a player need to break into becoming one of the all time greats as well.

Rank Player (yrs, age) Saves Throws
1. Mariano Rivera (19, 43) 652 R
2. Trevor Hoffman (18) 601 R
3. Lee Smith (18) 478 R
4. John Franco (21) 424 L
5. Billy Wagner (16) 422 L
6. Dennis Eckersley+ (24) 390 R
7. Jeff Reardon (16) 367 R
8. Troy Percival (14) 358 R
9. Randy Myers (14) 347 L
10. Rollie Fingers+ (17) 341 R

If you're a fan, it's still a great card and one of a kind, so keep it. It looks far from an investment quality player, so if you like the player keep the card. If you're holding onto the card to potentially sell, sell it now since there's little upside to relief pitchers and they're so temperamental flavors of the day, within 3 seasons he could become Trevor RosenWHOcares, as with many of the prospects and young players that are priced high on hype or manufactured scarcity created by the card companies.

It's hard to claim damages from the seller since it was due to shipping maybe but could have also been produced and packed with the flaws. So, any compromise you can get would be great, but I'd not expect too much from the seller since they seem to be offering little than condolences and excuses in compensation. He should have offered you something up front immediately if he were a professional seller who knows how to handle customer service other than the generic "make things right" lip service.

Give him one more chance to reconcile and even to the point you should ask for what you want. That could mean a free spot in his next break for the Cardinals if that makes you satisfied.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:26 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ugh! Sorry, amazing card thou! Was watching one on eBay(same one, just not 1/1) but didn't pay the price. I'd personally try and get some money back plus keep the card. His fault for not doing the correct packaging job. Sorta common sense IMO.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jumbogorilla View Post
Grow a pair and tell us who the guy is.
That's nice...................


Gotta give the people what the want:

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I looked in my shorts and it appears I have sprouted testicles. Thanks for the words of encouragement.





In all seriousness I posted this to get opinion on how to deal with this, not to trash the guy, but I understand why people want to know this as well.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:34 PM   #13 (permalink)
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sort of a lackluster pitcher



Trevor RosenWHOcares

Man, have to resist the urge to get into a debate about the player now..
Guy hits 100+ on the gun. Serious pop on the fastball. Needs a better breaking pitch. Didn't close much because Cardinals had 2 closers before him last season who both flamed out.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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So the breaker finally got back to me and said he would sell me the Cardinals spot for $90. $40 off his listed price. Think I'm gonna pass on this.... what a joke. This is why I called it a nightmare.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:47 PM   #15 (permalink)
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So the breaker finally got back to me and said he would sell me the Cardinals spot for $90. $40 off his listed price. Think I'm gonna pass on this.... what a joke. This is why I called it a nightmare.
His solution is to have you spend more money? What a joke.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:47 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm interested,and it's happened to me before
Epic Mailday, with a question!!!
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Old 03-29-2014, 07:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siebertb View Post
That's nice...................


Gotta give the people what the want:

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I looked in my shorts and it appears I have sprouted testicles. Thanks for the words of encouragement.





In all seriousness I posted this to get opinion on how to deal with this, not to trash the guy, but I understand why people want to know this as well.
Telling us "this guy doesn't give a crap about the cards he sends out" and then not telling us who that guy is so that we can avoid him is being irresponsible.

That said, sorry for calling you out on that. I know you must feel crummy about the card and all...I hope you get all this figured out.
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:29 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Stat Monsters View Post
It's 1/1, so difficult to say what it's worth, 'tho if there's sales precedent on 1/1 cards that's decent gauge.

Since it's 1/1, if someone wants it, they can't get it in better condition. However, if it were handled properly, if graded a 9.5 which is a reasonable possibility, it could have garnered greater multiples on the value and more attention.

It is a prospect card of sort of a lackluster pitcher who went 0-2 in 2012 and 2-4 last season, and is a closer w/ 3 saves... I'd not put too much faith in the value of closers, other than Mariano, all other closers like Lee Smith, Trevor Hoffman, Denis Eckersley, etc are not that highly valued, so even if he becomes great, let alone good or decent, as opposed to mediocre which he probably will be in terms of having HOF stats, you're best off selling it now to anyone interested in buying it. Just look at the list of all time saves leaders and know most of their cards aren't generally in high demand, 'tho a "1/1" is a game changer, you still, as a player need to break into becoming one of the all time greats as well.

Rank Player (yrs, age) Saves Throws
1. Mariano Rivera (19, 43) 652 R
2. Trevor Hoffman (18) 601 R
3. Lee Smith (18) 478 R
4. John Franco (21) 424 L
5. Billy Wagner (16) 422 L
6. Dennis Eckersley+ (24) 390 R
7. Jeff Reardon (16) 367 R
8. Troy Percival (14) 358 R
9. Randy Myers (14) 347 L
10. Rollie Fingers+ (17) 341 R

If you're a fan, it's still a great card and one of a kind, so keep it. It looks far from an investment quality player, so if you like the player keep the card. If you're holding onto the card to potentially sell, sell it now since there's little upside to relief pitchers and they're so temperamental flavors of the day, within 3 seasons he could become Trevor RosenWHOcares, as with many of the prospects and young players that are priced high on hype or manufactured scarcity created by the card companies.

It's hard to claim damages from the seller since it was due to shipping maybe but could have also been produced and packed with the flaws. So, any compromise you can get would be great, but I'd not expect too much from the seller since they seem to be offering little than condolences and excuses in compensation. He should have offered you something up front immediately if he were a professional seller who knows how to handle customer service other than the generic "make things right" lip service.

Give him one more chance to reconcile and even to the point you should ask for what you want. That could mean a free spot in his next break for the Cardinals if that makes you satisfied.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jumbogorilla View Post
Telling us "this guy doesn't give a crap about the cards he sends out" and then not telling us who that guy is so that we can avoid him is being irresponsible.

That said, sorry for calling you out on that. I know you must feel crummy about the card and all...I hope you get all this figured out.

The other thing is this. I know that it is inexcusable but I was under the impression he was just starting out his breaking "business". I don't know this as a fact but that was the impression I got. He fired his shipping guy, so who knows, maybe he is fine now. He has lots of negative feedback on eBay, though. I know his communication is poor because he was late sending the link and never really told me when it was happening (it was a while ago, but that's how I remember it.) But anyway, I have yet to respond to his "best offer" of giving me $40 off of a break....
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:42 PM   #19 (permalink)
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$40 off? That's a joke, sorry. I don't break for a business, just for fun on here but if I sent someone's 1/1 out with no sleeve, etc I'd be bending over backwards to make it right - not asking you to buy another slot.

He should give you the slot for free if that's what you want in return imo.
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:43 PM   #20 (permalink)
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His solution is to have you spend more money? What a joke.
No ****, right? What an ass this guy is. Thanks OP for revealing info on him so I can block the guy.
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:44 PM   #21 (permalink)
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OP, is this a PC card? Or are you going to flip it? TTT is notorious for having beat up corners and really do not see much of an issue with this card, even if you plan to display it. You and nobody else will ever see the back. It certainly was irresponsible of the breaker to ship in that manner but you might be wound a little tight on this issue. The card looks beautiful to me.
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Shipped without a sleeve and arrived damaged? Are you sure the card wasn't a redemption sent from Topps?
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Old 03-29-2014, 09:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
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OP, is this a PC card? Or are you going to flip it? TTT is notorious for having beat up corners and really do not see much of an issue with this card, even if you plan to display it. You and nobody else will ever see the back. It certainly was irresponsible of the breaker to ship in that manner but you might be wound a little tight on this issue. The card looks beautiful to me.
It is a PC card because I collect Cardinals, but not of my favorite player or anything. I just cringe when I look at it because I know it is a 1/1 and should be pristine but unfortunately is not. Just kinda makes me mad. And yeah I see what you mean about displaying it, the front is certainly fine, but it's the principal of the matter. I mean I would consider trading/selling it for something I wanted more, but now I don't have this option. Whether it's PC or I wanted to flip it, the breaker was at fault for laziness. I don't think I'm wrong for asking for something in return since he lowered the value by damaging it...
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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It is a PC card because I collect Cardinals, but not of my favorite player or anything. I just cringe when I look at it because I know it is a 1/1 and should be pristine but unfortunately is not. Just kinda makes me mad. And yeah I see what you mean about displaying it, the front is certainly fine, but it's the principal of the matter. I mean I would consider trading/selling it for something I wanted more, but now I don't have this option. Whether it's PC or I wanted to flip it, the breaker was at fault for laziness. I don't think I'm wrong for asking for something in return since he lowered the value by damaging it...
Not sure the damage that you are concerned about was because of the way the breaker shipped your card. Could be but it also could have been packed out that way by Topps, which TTT damage is fairly common. It being a 1/1 does not have anything to do with the likelihood of the card being pristine from the manufacturer, sorry. With TTT, the cards are handled much more often through the processes of a printing company. If you do not like the card, ask for a full refund for the break and not a partial plus keeping the card.
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Old 03-30-2014, 04:36 PM   #25 (permalink)
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If the breaker cant afford the proper penny sleeves this should be a hint.
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