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Old 05-02-2014, 07:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Exclamation 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Redemption Fiasco

I am currently in a BBB dispute with Topps over a 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition Autograph that is supposed to be hand numbered and signed in RED INK. Here is the complete conversation of BBB dispute for your amusement. At this point I am closer than ever to stopping my purchase of Topps products. I will update this thread with any new information when it becomes available.

===============================================
03/27/2014

Initial Complaint:

I will get right to the point. In June of 2013 I received a redemption card from a pack of Topps 2013 Heritage product. This redemption card was for a 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Special Edition Autograph of Willie Mays hand numbered and signed in red ink. HBBXXXXXXX 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Special Edition Autograph of Willie Mays Well 2014 Heritage has been released, redemption cards for 2014 Heritage Willie mays autos are in the product and I have yet to receive my 2013 Heritage Mays auto ????? Topps Redemptions Update ? Topps Redemption Update - December 26th 2013 The above link will inform that Willie Mays signed 2013 heritage cards in December of 2012 I have contacted Topps customer support numerous times since that information was released to sit on hold for an hour + and then be given the run around as to if my Real One Special Edition Autograph of Willie Mays has been signed or not. All I want is a fair equal value replacement which I will list in the desired outcome section. In December 2012 I also entered a redemption for a 2012 Topps Platinum Football Greg Childs Auto Rookie Refractor Jumbo Patch Black Parallel. PFBXXXXXXX 2012 Topps Platinum Football Greg Childs Auto Rookie Refractor Jumbo Patch Black Parallel This card has obviously been signed because I have seen them for sale everywhere. Why then is it taking Topps 4 months to send me a card they already have ? Please send me a 2012 Topps Platinum Football Greg Childs Auto Rookie Refractor Jumbo Patch Black Parallel card or a replacement, thank you. The Topps redemption process needs to be changed.

===============================================
Response to Complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Vincent Carbellano
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: Respond to Complaint
Date Sent: 4/7/2014 10:32:51 AM

We'd be happy to explain the unfortunate mix-up that occurred with his 2013 card. Mr. Langmayer is correct, these cards were to be signed in RED ink. However, due to an error, these were signed in the incorrect color: blue.

You got to be kidding me ...

We are sending this card shortly, as well as ?TWO? additional autographed cards, valued at approximately $50 each.

If Mr. Langmayer would still like to substitute the ?GREG CHILDS ?card in his account, please let us know.

Thank you, and we apologize for the extended wait and confusion.

===============================================
The business's response does not resolve my complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Mr. Langmayer
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: The business's response does not resolve my complaint.
Date Sent: 4/8/2014 6:31:51 AM

Topps says they are sending me a hand numbered 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition Autograph signed in RED ink shortly. Shortly to me equals 3 to 4 days and I do not think I will receive a hand numbered 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition Autograph signed in RED ink in 3 to 4 days. The reason Topps gives for the delay: someone handed Willie Mays a blue pen instead of a red pen to sign the Special Edition RED INK cards because we all know how easy it is to get Willie Mays to sign these days and we can have him just come back tomorrow and use the red pen. That excuse just made me more irritated with Topps than I already was and I am having a hard time believing it. Was planning on getting this card graded and selling it but as Topps continues to make excuses for why I have not yet received my card the value of the card continues to decline.

Below is a copy of an email from Topps customer support which states as of 04/03/2014 I can request a substitution.


COPY OF EMAIL FROM TOPPS CUSTOMER SUPPORT:


SubjectTopps Redemption Discussion Thread Response Via Email (Eric)02/04/2014 08:59 AMHello,

Thank you for your inquiry.

At this point we cannot go ahead with a substitution for HBBXXXXXXX as you will only be eligible for that only on 04/03/2014. We apologize for the inconvenience.


Sincerely,

Consumer Relations
The Topps Company, Inc. Question Reference #140204-000007


"If Mr. Langmayer would still like to substitute the ?GREG CHILDS ?card in his account, please let us know."

The answer to that is:

Just please send me the Greg Childs or a card of equal value, thank you. So I should be receiving either the Childs or a replacement by next week if you mail it within 48 hrs which should be enough processing time to mail 1 card.

Sincerely,

Mr. Langmayer

===============================================
Response to Complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Vincent Carbellano
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: Respond to Complaint
Date Sent: 4/15/2014 1:54:12 PM
Attachments:2013 Mays Value.PNG

Please see attached image,which shows a recent Ebay sale of Mr. Langmayer's card. We can happily substitute it with a card of equal value - however, it would be substituted based on the current value reflected ($300 of Ebay value)

For the inconvenience caused, we can send a complimentary card as well.

===============================================
The business's response does not resolve my complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Mr. Langmayer
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: The business's response does not resolve my complaint.
Date Sent: 4/17/2014 5:38:16 PM
Attachments:
maysblueinkauction.jpg

The image you attached shows a recent Ebay sale for a Redemption card for a 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Special Edition Autograph of Willie Mays. I did not sell my redemption which would have sold for closer to $500 if I had sold it many months ago when I opened the pack that it was in.

I have also attached an image. This image shows the last ebay auction of an IN HAND 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Autograph ( Blue Ink ) and it sold for $299.99. That is the same "current value reflected" (- 1 cent) that you placed on my Real One Special Edition ( Red Ink ) Autograph.

(IN HAND 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Autograph LINK -> 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Auto Real One Autographs Giants | eBay)

(A Quick Fact - RED INK is BETTER or GREATER than BLUE INK. A simple mathematical equation would be: RED INK > BLUE INK)

PROOF:

2013 Heritage High Number Zack Wheeler Real One Auto (Blue Ink) 2013 Topps Heritage High Number Zack Wheeler Autograph New York Mets | eBay

Sold for: $66.77

2013 Heritage High Number Zack Wheeler Real One Auto Special Edition (Red Ink) 2013 Topps Heritage High Series Zack Wheeler RC Red Ink on Card Auto SP Mets 10 | eBay

Sold for: $150.00

Just for the record that is more than 50 percent.

More Proof:

Bob Gibson

Blue ($41) -> 2013 Topps Heritage Bob Gibson Real One Auto Autograph Cardinals | eBay

Red ($125) -> 2013 Topps Heritage Bob Gibson Red Ink Auto 31 64 | eBay

And there are more examples if needed, but I think that gets the point across.

So what I want is a fair equal value for what my 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition (RED INK) autograph card is worth (IN MY HANDS) and that is not $300. Well it has been established that the blue is going for $300, so Red will easily fetch $600, but Willie Mays is not just a baseball Star hall of famer, he is a Super Star baseball hall of famer. And you know as well as I do that the amount of Hand Numbered red inks for Willie mays in 2013 heritage is going to be VERY VERY LOW.

$650.00 is a very low fair estimate and that is what I want ( First one Graded and In hand on ebay will get $1000).

Stop treating me like I dont know anything and give me equal value for my card since you have taken more than a year to release it to its rightful owners and I do not see it arriving any time sooner or later.

Please confirm $650.00 in substitute which is the current value reflected from example ebay values listed earlier in proof of the 50% difference in price from a Blue Ink to a Red Ink.

I will respond with what I am interested in and my mailing address.

Sincerely,

Mr. Langmayer

===============================================
Response to Complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Vincent Carbellano
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: Respond to Complaint
Date Sent: 4/23/2014 11:40:38 AM

Please see the link below for a completed auction of Mr. Langmayer's exact card, which sold for $299.99.

This is the value we will happily honor if Mr. Langmayer still wishes to receive a replacement card.

2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Auto Special Edition SP 65 Autograph | eBay

===============================================
The business's response does not resolve my complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Mr. Langmayer
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: The business's response does not resolve my complaint.
Date Sent: 4/25/2014 7:02:02 AM

Tried to contact Topps customer Support to talk about this issue and they will not speak to me because I have an open BBB complaint against them. I guess they do not want to discuss fair equal value for what is mine. Just go ahead and keep treating your customers badly and with no respect.

This Card ( 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Auto Special Edition SP 65 Autograph | eBay ) is not my card.

That is the redemption card that I redeemed 1 year ago for a 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Special Edition Autograph of Willie Mays signed in RED INK and will be hand numbered to way less than 64 ( Card # ROA-WM ). That redemption card is used to get the ACTUAL card that I just mentioned above, correct?

Stop trying to say that this ( 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Auto Special Edition SP 65 Autograph | eBay ) is the card I have been waiting a year for.

This card for example ( 2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Auto Real One Autographs Giants | eBay ) is a 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Autograph of Willie Mays signed in BLUE INK that sold for $299.99 the same amount you are offering me in replacement value for my RED INK.

This card for example ( Willie Mays 2013 Topps Heritage Baseball Real One Autographs ROA Wm BGS 9 AU 10 | eBay ) is a GRADED 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Autograph of Willie Mays signed in BLUE INK that is currently listed for $800.00

If I currently had my 2013 Topps Heritage Real One Special Edition Autograph of Willie Mays signed in RED INK and hand numbered to /? it would sell for $600.00 as soon as it was listed.

I do not know ( And I do not want to know ) what Topps is doing that is making it such a hassle for me ( and numerous others ) to get my card but I do know it is is taking way to long and I will not wait anymore. The treatment I have been receiving over this whole issue is ridiculous, the low ball offers of replacement value and compensation for a very valuable card that I have been waiting for a year for is rude. The way I feel from this issue makes me think that 2014 heritage will probably be the last product I purchase from Topps.

I will settle for $500.00 and some (3) hobby boxes of 2014 Heritage to show me that Topps is a fair company that respects its customers and wants to make up for this issue and keep a long time customer. Please be fair and accept my offer, Thank you.

Sincerely,

Nate Langmayer

===============================================
Response to Complaint:

Sent Via: Email (ODR)
From: Vincent Carbellano
To: Better Business Bureau Serving Metropolitan New York
Subject: Respond to Complaint
Date Sent: 4/30/2014 3:55:16 PM
Attachments: BBB13_Topps Heritage BB_R8.pdf

Please see the attached solicitation for this product, which was released to the public before this product officially released.

The "Real One" special edition autographs are hand-numbered to 64, which Mr. Langmayer's is. We never guaranteed that all special edition versions would be in red ink.As such, this card will be sent to Mr. Langmayer.

We can happily add another autograph card to the shipment for the trouble caused by this complaint file.

===============================================

This company needs to be investigated internally if you ask me. What do you think of my theory below:

TOPPS: "We'd be happy to explain the unfortunate mix-up that occurred with his 2013 card. Mr. Langmayer is correct, these cards were to be signed in RED ink. However, due to an error, these were signed in the incorrect color: blue."

After hearing that I thought they were going to correct the mistake and have the cards resigned in RED INK but...

TOPPS: "The "Real One" special edition autographs are hand-numbered to 64, which Mr. Langmayer's is. We never guaranteed that all special edition versions would be in red ink.As such, this card will be sent to Mr. Langmayer."

After that comment I think they are actually trying to stick me with a Regular Real One Autograph signed in Blue Ink and they will just number it to whatever out of 64.

Willie Mays can barely see anymore and did not sign 64 Special Edition autos, what a bold faced lie

I will update this thread when I send my latest The business's response does not resolve my complaint: reply.

Cheer's

Last edited by aromasks; 05-02-2014 at 07:59 AM.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:35 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Honestly, I think I would take the blue willie mays auto. I know red is more 'limited', but the red ink is just awful. Blue FTW! Either way, good luck.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:38 AM   #3 (permalink)
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What a joke! Unfortunately, this is why I sell all my topps redemptions no matter how nice the card may be. Hopefully, something good comes out of this in the end.
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Good job calling them out.

Good job on your well thought out responses & planned posts.

I'd say if they give you something of equal value for the Willie Mays & Greg Childs I'll take it.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
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It just seems Topps wants to give people the lesser value items and hope we take them. I see more and more of these popping up . I wish MLB would take away the sole license and let UD or Panini back in .
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:14 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Very impressed with your calm, well researched and well thought out emails back and forth.

Sadly, the BBB is just a mediator and has no power to make them do anything... so Topps is just going to continue to do what they want to do.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:31 AM   #7 (permalink)
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All of that typing and topps don't care about ebay value. So a card could have sold for a billion dollars. If it sells for a penny now you get a penny. Thats hows its been for everyone and thats how it should stay. There has been plenty of cases I seen a card go from 10 to 100 and oddly no one said hey I got too much it was worth 10 a year ago. Take the blue Mays and call it a day.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm sorry man, but one person comes off as irrational in that exchange and it's not our old buddy Vincent. You make a couple of claims that, while your general premise might be correct, make you lose some credibility. Some examples (your comment in bold

1) Was planning on getting this card graded and selling it Why would you assume that the card would be gradeable? Why should Topps pay you based on the assumption that it would have graded gem mint? You're insinuating that you want even more than fair price based on some ficticious belief you have that the card would have graded 9.5/10, when that is rarely the case

2) because we all know how easy it is to get Willie Mays to sign these days and we can have him just come back tomorrow and use the red pen You have ZERO clue how easy/difficult it is to get Mays to sign and have no idea how the logistics of such an arrangement work. Mays is known as a difficult person. It's just not that easy.

3) Topps: We'd be happy to explain the unfortunate mix-up that occurred with his 2013 card. Mr. Langmayer is correct, these cards were to be signed in RED ink. However, due to an error, these were signed in the incorrect color: blue.

We are sending this card shortly, as well as ?TWO? additional autographed cards, valued at approximately $50 each.


Your reply: Topps says they are sending me a hand numbered 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition Autograph signed in RED ink shortly.

They did NOT say that they are sending you a Willie Mays Red Ink. They clearly offered to send you a blue ink version + 2 additional cards valued at $50 EACH. So that puts the value they're offering you at a very fair $400.


4) So what I want is a fair equal value for what my 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition (RED INK) autograph card is worth (IN MY HANDS) and that is not $300. Well it has been established that the blue is going for $300, so Red will easily fetch $600, but Willie Mays is not just a baseball Star hall of famer, he is a Super Star baseball hall of famer. And you know as well as I do that the amount of Hand Numbered red inks for Willie mays in 2013 heritage is going to be VERY VERY LOW.

$650.00 is a very low fair estimate and that is what I want ( First one Graded and In hand on ebay will get $1000).

Stop treating me like I dont know anything and give me equal value for my card since you have taken more than a year to release it to its rightful owners and I do not see it arriving any time sooner or later.

Please confirm $650.00 in substitute which is the current value reflected from example ebay values listed earlier in proof of the 50% difference in price from a Blue Ink to a Red Ink.
So after proving that red ink cards sell for 50% more than blue inks, you act entitled to recieve a value on your Red Ink Mays that equates to a 116% increase over the value of the blue, while again making the asinine argument that yours would have graded a gem mint and sold for over $1000.


So while I hate and bash Topps as much as the next guy, your poor claims and arguments have me on Topps side in this case.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
I'm sorry man, but one person comes off as irrational in that exchange and it's not our old buddy Vincent. You make a couple of claims that, while your general premise might be correct, make you lose some credibility. Some examples (your comment in bold

1) Was planning on getting this card graded and selling it Why would you assume that the card would be gradeable? Why should Topps pay you based on the assumption that it would have graded gem mint? You're insinuating that you want even more than fair price based on some ficticious belief you have that the card would have graded 9.5/10, when that is rarely the case

2) because we all know how easy it is to get Willie Mays to sign these days and we can have him just come back tomorrow and use the red pen You have ZERO clue how easy/difficult it is to get Mays to sign and have no idea how the logistics of such an arrangement work. Mays is known as a difficult person. It's just not that easy.

3) Topps: We'd be happy to explain the unfortunate mix-up that occurred with his 2013 card. Mr. Langmayer is correct, these cards were to be signed in RED ink. However, due to an error, these were signed in the incorrect color: blue.

We are sending this card shortly, as well as ?TWO? additional autographed cards, valued at approximately $50 each.


Your reply: Topps says they are sending me a hand numbered 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition Autograph signed in RED ink shortly.

They did NOT say that they are sending you a Willie Mays Red Ink. They clearly offered to send you a blue ink version + 2 additional cards valued at $50 EACH. So that puts the value they're offering you at a very fair $400.


4) So what I want is a fair equal value for what my 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition (RED INK) autograph card is worth (IN MY HANDS) and that is not $300. Well it has been established that the blue is going for $300, so Red will easily fetch $600, but Willie Mays is not just a baseball Star hall of famer, he is a Super Star baseball hall of famer. And you know as well as I do that the amount of Hand Numbered red inks for Willie mays in 2013 heritage is going to be VERY VERY LOW.

$650.00 is a very low fair estimate and that is what I want ( First one Graded and In hand on ebay will get $1000).

Stop treating me like I dont know anything and give me equal value for my card since you have taken more than a year to release it to its rightful owners and I do not see it arriving any time sooner or later.

Please confirm $650.00 in substitute which is the current value reflected from example ebay values listed earlier in proof of the 50% difference in price from a Blue Ink to a Red Ink.
So after proving that red ink cards sell for 50% more than blue inks, you act entitled to recieve a value on your Red Ink Mays that equates to a 116% increase over the value of the blue, while again making the asinine argument that yours would have graded a gem mint and sold for over $1000.


So while I hate and bash Topps as much as the next guy, your poor claims and arguments have me on Topps side in this case.
On one side i agree with you Keyser but on the other i don't . Topps is a company who time and time again promises to deliver a certain card . In this case they say he was to sign red but did blue. Ok where is the proof? Are the Blues numbered ? What makes these Blues stand out from what the reds were supposed to stand out as ?

Yes Blues are selling for 300 but they are not numbered right. So Reds from what he has shown sell for a higher price not in Mays since Topps says he signed in Blue . But they are still offering upwards of 100.00 more BV could be 10.00 Ebay value. He is assuming card would grade good along with his guess at a value.

Now Here is what i say both him and topps should do

Meet in the middle on this if no red autos are to be made now and Topps says they messed up then again say never said red auto caught in lie.

customer wants 650 topps is offering 400 meet at 500 value and give him options on extra cards?
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:26 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ernieren View Post
On one side i agree with you Keyser but on the other i don't . Topps is a company who time and time again promises to deliver a certain card . In this case they say he was to sign red but did blue. Ok where is the proof? Are the Blues numbered ? What makes these Blues stand out from what the reds were supposed to stand out as ?

Yes Blues are selling for 300 but they are not numbered right. So Reds from what he has shown sell for a higher price not in Mays since Topps says he signed in Blue . But they are still offering upwards of 100.00 more BV could be 10.00 Ebay value. He is assuming card would grade good along with his guess at a value.

Now Here is what i say both him and topps should do

Meet in the middle on this if no red autos are to be made now and Topps says they messed up then again say never said red auto caught in lie.

customer wants 650 topps is offering 400 meet at 500 value and give him options on extra cards?

2 redemption cards for Red Ink Mays autos sold recently, 1 got $300 and one got $280. It's just not realistic to expect/demand that Topps give him $500 in replacement value, much less $650 or $1000. Their offer wasn't unfair. I do agree with you that Topps should give replacement options
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:34 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok i didn't know 2 sold for 3ish but we don't know how long he has been dealing with issue as well. Now if these reds were selling for more at one point and Topps messed up then 400 was fair but 500 wouldn't be out of the question either with the numbered cards . Yes no sales on the reds that are live and never will be. I just don't like how Topps messed up on this and the customer gets the shaft . I do agree to take the 400 but not just 2 random cards let him pick from a group pr make some offers to him .
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:50 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for your replies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
1) Was planning on getting this card graded and selling it Why would you assume that the card would be gradeable? Why should Topps pay you based on the assumption that it would have graded gem mint? You're insinuating that you want even more than fair price based on some ficticious belief you have that the card would have graded 9.5/10, when that is rarely the case
Any card you receive through Topps redemptions should be in the least a Mint condition card but the card could be damaged in the mail and in that case I would ask for a replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
2) because we all know how easy it is to get Willie Mays to sign these days and we can have him just come back tomorrow and use the red pen You have ZERO clue how easy/difficult it is to get Mays to sign and have no idea how the logistics of such an arrangement work. Mays is known as a difficult person. It's just not that easy.
"because we all know how easy it is to get Willie Mays to sign these days and we can have him just come back tomorrow and use the red pen"

I was being sarcastic, I know very well how hard it is to get Mays to sign these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
3) Topps: We'd be happy to explain the unfortunate mix-up that occurred with his 2013 card. Mr. Langmayer is correct, these cards were to be signed in RED ink. However, due to an error, these were signed in the incorrect color: blue.

We are sending this card shortly, as well as ?TWO? additional autographed cards, valued at approximately $50 each.


Your reply: Topps says they are sending me a hand numbered 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition Autograph signed in RED ink shortly.

They did NOT say that they are sending you a Willie Mays Red Ink. They clearly offered to send you a blue ink version + 2 additional cards valued at $50 EACH. So that puts the value they're offering you at a very fair $400.
I was assuming that Topps would still be sending me the RED INK Special Edition. I was assuming that a Company like Topps would correct the mistake and have the cards signed again in red ink. I know now that this is not the case.



That card above entitles me to the card listed on the front and I want that card or what I can sell that card for.

My last offer to Topps is quoted below:

Quote:
I will settle for $500.00 and some (3) hobby boxes of 2014 Heritage to show me that Topps is a fair company that respects its customers and wants to make up for this issue and keep a long time customer. Please be fair and accept my offer, Thank you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keyser Soze View Post
4) So what I want is a fair equal value for what my 2013 Heritage Willie Mays Real One Special Edition (RED INK) autograph card is worth (IN MY HANDS) and that is not $300. Well it has been established that the blue is going for $300, so Red will easily fetch $600, but Willie Mays is not just a baseball Star hall of famer, he is a Super Star baseball hall of famer. And you know as well as I do that the amount of Hand Numbered red inks for Willie mays in 2013 heritage is going to be VERY VERY LOW.

$650.00 is a very low fair estimate and that is what I want ( First one Graded and In hand on ebay will get $1000).

Stop treating me like I dont know anything and give me equal value for my card since you have taken more than a year to release it to its rightful owners and I do not see it arriving any time sooner or later.

Please confirm $650.00 in substitute which is the current value reflected from example ebay values listed earlier in proof of the 50% difference in price from a Blue Ink to a Red Ink.
So after proving that red ink cards sell for 50% more than blue inks, you act entitled to recieve a value on your Red Ink Mays that equates to a 116% increase over the value of the blue, while again making the asinine argument that yours would have graded a gem mint and sold for over $1000.


So while I hate and bash Topps as much as the next guy, your poor claims and arguments have me on Topps side in this case.
I just point out the simple fact that Red Ink sells for 50% more than Blue ink. I never say that my card will grade a gem mint and sell for over $1000.

What I said was:

Quote:
( First one Graded and In hand on ebay will get $1000).
And I still think if an in hand Red Ink Special edition (hand numbered to way less than 64 as originally planned before the ink screw up by Topps) showed up on ebay right now it could get close to a $1000 graded or not.

Been waiting for around a year now for this card being told excuse after excuse of why it was not signed by customer support which were all lies and then come to find out the truth about the ink screw up when filing a report with the BBB. Why could they not have told me the truth through customer saupport? I have just plain had it with the way Topps handles business, it is wrong.

Cheers
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Have you considered contacting your state's Attorney General's Office? I know in NY State they have helped me considerably a few times with other devious businesses (Dish Network, Verizon Wireless)
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Thanks everyone for your replies



Any card you receive through Topps redemptions should be in the least a Mint condition card but the card could be damaged in the mail and in that case I would ask for a replacement.



"because we all know how easy it is to get Willie Mays to sign these days and we can have him just come back tomorrow and use the red pen"

I was being sarcastic, I know very well how hard it is to get Mays to sign these days.



I was assuming that Topps would still be sending me the RED INK Special Edition. I was assuming that a Company like Topps would correct the mistake and have the cards signed again in red ink. I know now that this is not the case.



That card above entitles me to the card listed on the front and I want that card or what I can sell that card for.

My last offer to Topps is quoted below:





I just point out the simple fact that Red Ink sells for 50% more than Blue ink. I never say that my card will grade a gem mint and sell for over $1000.

What I said was:



And I still think if an in hand Red Ink Special edition (hand numbered to way less than 64 as originally planned before the ink screw up by Topps) showed up on ebay right now it could get close to a $1000 graded or not.

Been waiting for around a year now for this card being told excuse after excuse of why it was not signed by customer support which were all lies and then come to find out the truth about the ink screw up when filing a report with the BBB. Why could they not have told me the truth through customer saupport? I have just plain had it with the way Topps handles business, it is wrong.

Cheers
is that a pic of your actual redemption card? If so, where does it say red ink? And how is it different than the one Topps linked you that sold for $300?
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:24 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Ok i didn't know 2 sold for 3ish but we don't know how long he has been dealing with issue as well. Now if these reds were selling for more at one point and Topps messed up then 400 was fair but 500 wouldn't be out of the question either with the numbered cards . Yes no sales on the reds that are live and never will be. I just don't like how Topps messed up on this and the customer gets the shaft . I do agree to take the 400 but not just 2 random cards let him pick from a group pr make some offers to him .
If they were selling for $500 a year ago and are at $300 now, $300 is the estimated market value today. You can't have it both ways, decline to sell the redemption and then expect topps to give you peak market value once the value drops.

You either sell the redemption or you take the risk and scratch it. Eveyrone knows what. You can't have it both ways.

And while we all know that Special Edition means Red Ink, nowhere on the redemption does it state that. If the card wasn't made yet, it could be yellow ink for all the redemption says.

Redemptions are almost like a second break. You can't demand that Topps refund you the difference on a $1200 case that only nets you $800 in sales and you can't demand that Topps give you $500 for a redemption that at one point may have sold for $500 but that nets you a $300 card or cards. Once you scratch, you've forgone the value of the redemption and have taken on the risk of the card. Just like once you bust wax you have given up the value of the unopened boxes and taken on the risk of whatever is inside.

Granted redemptions make a more specific promise, but that's limited to what is written on the front and any disclaimer.




Finally shooting the moon with a $1000 valuation just kills the whole argument. In the end it reads more petulant than anything.

No offense meant to the OP, I know how frustrating it can be. But if I'm the guy at the BBB, I'm calling up Topps, having a laugh, and trying to figure out the easiest way for this squeaky wheel to go away. If their office is local, I'm offering to meet and buy drinks while he explains why the color of the ink used to sign a piece of cardboard is such a big deal.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:25 PM   #16 (permalink)
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is that a pic of your actual redemption card? If so, where does it say red ink? And how is it different than the one Topps linked you that sold for $300?

this auction here states for a redemption of a Real One Willie Mays autograph
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-Topps-H...p2047675.l2557


and this one here is for a Real One Special Edition Willie Mays autograph
2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Auto Special Edition SP 65 Autograph | eBay

Last edited by duwal; 05-04-2014 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:32 PM   #17 (permalink)
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If they were selling for $500 a year ago and are at $300 now, $300 is the estimated market value today. You can't have it both ways, decline to sell the redemption and then expect topps to give you peak market value once the value drops.

I think that IS where the OP is making the mistake with interacting and fighting with them so long that the demand and value of the Willie Mays Real Ones autographs have decreased. Would be hard to have either version sell for over $300 now
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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this auction here states for a redemption of a Real One Willie Mays autograph
2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Auto SP ROA Wm Autograph Giants | eBay


and this one here is for a Real One Special Edition Willie Mays autograph
2013 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Real One Auto Special Edition SP 65 Autograph | eBay
both redemptions are identical???
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:46 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Been waiting for around a year now for this card being told excuse after excuse of why it was not signed by customer support which were all lies and then come to find out the truth about the ink screw up when filing a report with the BBB. Why could they not have told me the truth through customer saupport? I have just plain had it with the way Topps handles business, it is wrong.

Cheers

I completely agree with you......in theory. But in reality, I feel as though you set yourself up for failure by having unrealistic expectations and making unfeasible demands based on flawed rationale.

Topps sucks. They suck at redemptions. They suck at customer service. But when I read your back-and-forth with them, I don't come away thinking "Topps sucks", I come away thinking "This customer wants to be overcompensated based on flawed arguments and due to a bad experience".

It's hard to argue that a live 2013 Heritage Red Ink would get $1000 when this live 2003 Heritage Red Ink, which is 10 years older and 10 copies rarer than yours hasn't even recieved a single offer at a $750 BIN/BO. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1700wt_1124
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm with Keyser on this one, while the OP certainly has a legitimate complaint regarding this redemption, his valuation claims and comparisons are a bit unrealistic. Those arguments do quite a bit of damage to the credibility of his overall complaint.
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:00 PM   #21 (permalink)
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You're acting as if you feel entitled to always get a mint or better condition card when it comes via a redemption card. This is not always the case. You can't just assume that yours will end up getting a 9 or better and send it back if it has any flaws that would prevent it from getting that grade.
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Old 05-04-2014, 12:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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both redemptions are identical???

wrong link, look again
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Old 05-04-2014, 01:34 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I completely agree with you......in theory. But in reality, I feel as though you set yourself up for failure by having unrealistic expectations and making unfeasible demands based on flawed rationale.

Topps sucks. They suck at redemptions. They suck at customer service. But when I read your back-and-forth with them, I don't come away thinking "Topps sucks", I come away thinking "This customer wants to be overcompensated based on flawed arguments and due to a bad experience".

It's hard to argue that a live 2013 Heritage Red Ink would get $1000 when this live 2003 Heritage Red Ink, which is 10 years older and 10 copies rarer than yours hasn't even recieved a single offer at a $750 BIN/BO. 2003 Topps Heritage Willie Mays Auto Red Ink 54 54 1954 Signed Autograph 1 1 | eBay
wow I can't believe how clueless you are. First we all know that redemptions sell at a significant discount! So you can't base the value of the card on the sell price of a redemption!

Topps needs to be held accountable for the time value of money! $300 spent 2 years ago is worth more than $300 today and they can't be allowed to tie up a customers money and not be held accountable!

I hope the OP gets his way because it seems more than fair!

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Old 05-04-2014, 01:48 PM   #24 (permalink)
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wow I can't believe how clueless you are. First we all know that redemptions sell at a significant discount! So you can't base the value of the card on the sell price of a redemption!

Topps needs to be held accountable for the time value of money! $300 spent 2 years ago is worth more than $300 today and they can't be allowed to tie up a customers money and not be held accountable!

I hope the OP gets his way because it seems more than fair!

Did you bother to check the link? You seem to be pretty clueless. Topps made a very fair offer, which was more than the redemption cost. You think they should just give in to unreasonable demands because a mad customer says so?
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Old 05-04-2014, 01:51 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Did you bother to check the link? You seem to be pretty clueless. Topps made a very fair offer, which was more than the redemption cost. You think they should just give in to unreasonable demands because a mad customer says so?
Mad as a mad hatter!
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