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Old 01-17-2012, 05:57 AM   #326 (permalink)
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I don't remember any of the bidders as it was awhile ago. There were a few 0 feedbacks I remember because I was contemplating about canceling their bids. But I decided not to as a lot of buzz was goin around that time as well. That was the time the PSA 10 was selling for $15k or something like that and it had a lot of 0 feedback bidders as well. It was bad during that time but not as bad as compared to this one. I remember there were over 35 bids too. Either way, winning bidder was mnmiracle2004 and I actually lost some money on that one. I believe he made a quick $1.5k on my card as he sold it within a month to someone else.

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Old 01-17-2012, 06:08 AM   #327 (permalink)
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Ok my memory came back little by little
with the help of this
** High End MICHAEL JORDAN Cards!!!! ** - Page 14 - Sports Card Forum - Sports Cards Community

Sorry, but at that time you blatantly shilled your auctions, and you got caught wet
Ask BenMoss about this, I'm sure he still remembered this event

jimcelica2000.....local buddy, am I correct?
- on ebay, his location is at Fremont, CA
- your location is at Union City, CA
- 8 miles away from each other (Google Map)
- someone whose bid/sell history never touched collectibles / trading cards, especially High end Basketball card
- suddenly has 100% bid activity with you (and not just 1 auction, it was multiple auctions)
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Old 01-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #328 (permalink)
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No I did not get caught wet. It was similar to this situation. Accused at first of shill bidding but no solid proof. Even Ben acknowledged as he saw the final sale goto mnmiracle2004 for a lower price than what I bought it for. He and I even had a personal email discussion about it, and he was quite dissapointed with me selling it for so low.

Yes, not only that person but I have noticed a few locals bidding on my auctions in the past. I know this because I remember hoping that one of the locals WOULD win so I can do it personally. However, never has any local win any of my cards, because I would have met them in person to hand them the card. It's really not that unusual for a local to be bidding is it? No matter what their bid activity looks like? I sometimes browse and bid on girly stuff for my lady using my eBay ID. I NEVER buy things like that 99.9% of the time. But let's say I goto a nice Purse listing, then click on "See Other Items" and bid on a few items from the same seller. Does that mean I'm shill bidding? Again... people were too quick to judge. And I've noticed it only happens when they are really HIGH END cards that are $5k+ usually. I don't blame them as these are the ones that stick out and get lots of attention.

Like I said before and also here earlier... I have nothing to hide. An open book. You guys can religiously FOLLOW all my listings and eBay auction sales and try to find something shady... but again, you'll have one hell of a time trying. Because there aren't any. My id on forums and eBay are all linked and the same. You can easily follow and track all cards I buy and sell. In the past and in the future. Nothing but honest business. I NEVER have SHILL bidded any of my auctions thinking it might end low... then a month later re-list the same card even when it was clearly sold to someone before. Some of those eBay guys do and it pisses me off at times too.

I have a 100% clean track record, and I plan to keep it that way. I've used this example before, but it's like a bad yelp review. It can really ruin a business. Similarly, there's no way I could continue to do what I do if even one bad sale happens. It's just not worth any of it to shill bid so I can make just a few extra bucks.

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Old 01-17-2012, 07:31 AM   #329 (permalink)
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No I did not get caught wet. It was similar to this situation. Accused at first of shill bidding but no solid proof. Even Ben acknowledged as he saw the final sale goto mnmiracle2004 for a lower price than what I bought it for. He and I even had a personal email discussion about it, and he was quite dissapointed with me selling it for so low.

Yes, not only that person but I have noticed a few locals bidding on my auctions in the past. I know this because I remember hoping that one of the locals WOULD win so I can do it personally. However, never has any local win any of my cards, because I would have met them in person to hand them the card. It's really not that unusual for a local to be bidding is it? No matter what their bid activity looks like? I sometimes browse and bid on girly stuff for my lady using my eBay ID. I NEVER buy things like that 99.9% of the time. But let's say I goto a nice Purse listing, then click on "See Other Items" and bid on a few items from the same seller. Does that mean I'm shill bidding? Again... people were too quick to judge. And I've noticed it only happens when they are really HIGH END cards that are $5k+ usually. I don't blame them as these are the ones that stick out and get lots of attention.

Like I said before and also here earlier... I have nothing to hide. An open book. You guys can religiously FOLLOW all my listings and eBay auction sales and try to find something shady... but again, you'll have one hell of a time trying. Because there aren't any. My id on forums and eBay are all linked and the same. You can easily follow and track all cards I buy and sell. In the past and in the future. Nothing but honest business. I NEVER have SHILL bidded any of my auctions thinking it might end low... then a month later re-list the same card even when it was clearly sold to someone before. Some of those eBay guys do and it pisses me off at times too.

I have a 100% clean track record, and I plan to keep it that way. I've used this example before, but it's like a bad yelp review. It can really ruin a business. Similarly, there's no way I could continue to do what I do if even one bad sale happens. It's just not worth any of it to shill bid so I can make just a few extra bucks.
A quick Question for you , What was the user name/ or name of the Australian that asked you to price fix on ebay?
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:49 AM   #330 (permalink)
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A quick Question for you , What was the user name/ or name of the Australian that asked you to price fix on ebay?
As much as I want to tell you, I shouldn't disclose that information. That's like ratting someone out and I don't do that either. That could potentially cause a lot more problem. All I can say is he is from Australia and he asked me ONCE to bid just a few extra dollars worth. I never did, and he never asked again.
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:50 AM   #331 (permalink)
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on the blue jordan finest refractor the 2nd and 3rd bidders have 100% bid activity with you. same bidder also bid on the other jordan refractor you had on auction. they logged on and created an account just to buy from you? and didn't win?
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:55 AM   #332 (permalink)
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As much as I want to tell you, I shouldn't disclose that information. That's like ratting someone out and I don't do that either. That could potentially cause a lot more problem. All I can say is he is from Australia and he asked me ONCE to bid just a few extra dollars worth. I never did, and he never asked again.
What do u mean ratting out I mean you have verified that they asked to price fix .
Just tell me dude I don't get why you want to conceal a turd, especially since your so honest aswell ?

I bet I already know who or which crew lets say.

If your worried Pm me all i have to say in business if you prefer to deal with garbage because you can line your pockets you won't get far as in Rep you will be known as a money hungry "" that will do anything for a dollar now if that's cool with you live with it you will have a few that pat you on the back but the majority will just see NO RESPECT.

I don't know in your world but I can tell you I have knocked back Lucrative 6 figure contracts due to the scum offering the contract money doesn't make me I make money.

I have noticed in this hobby people/kids think if they have big cards they demand respect , Wrong respect is earned not bought.

Food for thought.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:03 AM   #333 (permalink)
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You do know that same buyers can very well bid on multiple auctions I run right? There are MANY times the same people bid on sometimes ALL the auctions I may currently have listed. Quite a lot of people do that usually. I do. Since I already mentioned kobes_for_sale, I'll use him as an example. If I see a rare Jordan card he lists, I immediately hit the "Other Items For Sale" link and see what other cards he has listed and sometimes bid on all of his current listings.

Again, you and I and everyone knows that all these information are abundantly available for all to see anytime. I don't shill in the first place, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't do anything so obvious.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:04 AM   #334 (permalink)
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What do u mean ratting out I mean you have verified that they asked to price fix .
Just tell me dude I don't get why you want to conceal a turd, especially since your so honest aswell ?
So you want me to be a rat? Sorry man, I don't do that. I leave it be. I already told you he's from Australia. If you follow Jordan cards, he will stick out to you eventually. He lists his cards in auctions from time to time. And when you think it sold, you'll see it list again a few weeks later, which verifies he never really sold it, but rather "fake" bought his own cards. I would rather you find out yourself than me plaster his name here on a card forum. And when you do, you can name him to the community. After this bs experience, I'm very cautious to throw out any potential problem.

But this isn't found only with Jordan cards. I've seen this happen with almost anything on eBay.

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Old 01-17-2012, 08:11 AM   #335 (permalink)
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So you want me to be a rat? Sorry man, I don't do that. I leave it be. I already told you he's from Australia. If you follow Jordan cards, he will stick out to you eventually. He lists his cards in auctions from time to time. And when you think it sold, you'll see it list again a few weeks later, which verifies he never really sold it, but rather "fake" bought his own cards. I would rather you find out yourself than me plaster his name here on a card forum. And when you do, you can name him to the community. After this bs experience, I'm very cautious to throw out any potential problem.
..........unreal.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:11 AM   #336 (permalink)
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You do know that same buyers can very well bid on multiple auctions I run right? There are MANY times the same people bid on sometimes ALL the auctions I may currently have listed. Quite a lot of people do that usually. I do. Since I already mentioned kobes_for_sale, I'll use him as an example. If I see a rare Jordan card he lists, I immediately hit the "Other Items For Sale" link and see what other cards he has listed and sometimes bid on all of his current listings.

Again, you and I and everyone knows that all these information are abundantly available for all to see anytime. I don't shill in the first place, and I CERTAINLY wouldn't do anything so obvious.

yes, but why would someone logon, create a new account, and not win? they were so intrigued by your jordan items that they bid only on your items on ebay 100%, and then didn't even bother to win them? lost the card over like $2, and it wasn't a last minute bid situation? that doesn't make sense. like so many other things surrounding the story you tell.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:12 AM   #337 (permalink)
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So you want me to be a rat? Sorry man, I don't do that. I leave it be. I already told you he's from Australia. If you follow Jordan cards, he will stick out to you eventually. He lists his cards in auctions from time to time. And when you think it sold, you'll see it list again a few weeks later, which verifies he never really sold it, but rather "fake" bought his own cards. I would rather you find out yourself than me plaster his name here on a card forum. And when you do, you can name him to the community. After this bs experience, I'm very cautious to throw out any potential problem.

But this isn't found only with Jordan cards. I've seen this happen with almost anything on eBay.
Is it Ray ? Jordan23 On SCF ebay alias: Godlovesword and the 10 others he runs by?
From Sydney NSW
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:20 AM   #338 (permalink)
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yes, but why would someone logon, create a new account, and not win? they were so intrigued by your jordan items that they bid only on your items on ebay 100%, and then didn't even bother to win them? lost the card over like $2, and it wasn't a last minute bid situation? that doesn't make sense. like so many other things surrounding the story you tell.
Sigh* You're asking me questions I don't know? I am not him, her, them, etc. Honestly, you can believe whatever you want man. At this point, I'm getting tired of trying to explain myself when I'm doin nothing wrong. Remember, this whole Jordan sale still doesn't make sense to some members, and no matter how much I tell them how it all went down with proof and what have you, I don't really think it will change their mindset. I can tell there are still some members wanting to find some kind of dirt, ANYTHING to hurt me. I guess it's entertainment for them. But I'm still gonna tell you... what you see is what you get. I have a clean track record. 100% satisfaction rate on both sides of every buy/sell I've done.

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Is it Ray ? Jordan23 On SCF ebay alias: Godlovesword and the 10 others he runs by?
From Sydney NSW
hahaha. I don't think it's any of them, although I've heard some things about them before also. Anyways, I told you... I'm not going to name anyone in this thread. Suppose I did. And this isn't true, but let's say I told everyone it was Jordan23. I'm sure that will branch off to a whole new can of worms that can cause a lot of heat. I'm gonna stay away from all that. This is already all pointless bull and it's more than enough.

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Old 01-17-2012, 08:26 AM   #339 (permalink)
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Sigh* honestly, you can believe whatever you want man. This whole Jordan sale still doesn't make sense to some members, and no matter how much I tell them how it all went down with proof and what have you, I don't really think it will change their mindset.

people who create accounts only to bid on your item to drive the price up and don't win is a shill bidder, period. there isn't really anything needed to be believed in that. you expect people to believe there are these mystery bidders that create new accounts only to logon and bid on your cards but don't bid on anyone else's jordan cards? they created an account just for you? just for your card? and didn't win the cards? what sense does that make? it's obviously a bogus account reguardless if you did it or not, the auctions are definately shilled.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:41 AM   #340 (permalink)
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people who create accounts only to bid on your item to drive the price up and don't win is a shill bidder, period. there isn't really anything needed to be believed in that. you expect people to believe there are these mystery bidders that create new accounts only to logon and bid on your cards but don't bid on anyone else's jordan cards? they created an account just for you? just for your card? and didn't win the cards? what sense does that make? it's obviously a bogus account reguardless if you did it or not, the auctions are definately shilled.
Ok bro. I guess all my auctions are shilled, even tho I had nothing to do with it. I simply list my card, they sell and I mail them. But I guess because someone or whoever that bids only on my auctions and gets outbid means I'm automatically shady business. That's fine, because I know the truth. And there are so many more that can vouch for my honest business.


Back to the original topic... hopefully the payment will clear either today or tomorrow. Paypal usually takes about 2 business days to clear. Once it does, everyone here will see the card being mailed with information, and hopefully this whole accusation will come to an end.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:47 AM   #341 (permalink)
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hahaha. I don't think it's any of them, although I've heard some things about them before also. Anyways, I told you... I'm not going to name anyone in this thread. Suppose I did. And this isn't true, but let's say I told everyone it was Jordan23. I'm sure that will branch off to a whole new can of worms that can cause a lot of heat. I'm gonna stay away from all that. This is already all pointless bull and it's more than enough.
Geeze man i can't understand why you won't name the person that asked you Price fix an auction , I mean don't you feel the right thing should be done why conceal ?

Are u scared?
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:48 AM   #342 (permalink)
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regaurdless of if you had anything to do with it, the auction is shilled. both of them are. anytime you have new accounts that have 100% bid on your items only and aren't using ebay that's shill bidding. and neither account with 100% won anything.
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Old 01-17-2012, 08:50 AM   #343 (permalink)
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regaurdless of if you had anything to do with it, the auction is shilled. both of them are. anytime you have new accounts that have 100% bid on your items only and aren't using ebay that's shill bidding. and neither account with 100% won anything.
I know that is weird
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Old 01-17-2012, 09:07 AM   #344 (permalink)
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So far to date on every single high end MJ listing that had the same buyers and similar sellers, there has been questionable bidding. I cant for the life of me figure out how pathetic excuses like "Hes a millionaire", "I dont care because I dont buy", "I dont know why" and just put silence are justifiable answers to the questions being asked.

These people just keep deferring the answer and ignore the question. Over an over an over again. They stay silent and expect you you swallow the garbage they spew.

Not one question has been answered yet. Not one damn logical question asked has been answered truthfully or with any facts. They just keep getting deflected to "I dont know". This is the first tell tale sign of a ponzi scheme for a few to get rich from.

Here is the FACT that kills everything...

2 exact high end MJ cards can be listed at one time. One of them will sell for record amounts, while the other doesnt evern get a bid. EXACT same cards and the one with a lower BIN will not be touched yet the 2nd one will have over 100 watchers and 50 offers. THATS NOT LOGICAL. That just wreaks of foul play.

The same sellers getting top dollars selling to the same buyer who pay top dollar.

PMG RED gets listed for $12k and bought by Sir Lannir and gets multiple bids over 10k. Another pops up out of china for $2k lessand NOT ONE SINGLE person from the $12k auction is interested at all.

BGS 9.5 MJ gold Ref /74 shows up for sale at $12k. No one bites. Relisted at $15k. No one bites. Relisted again for $18k, the BAM there are 100 watchers and 50 offers pouring in oh which various offers are over the $15k mark. Yet another auction with same exact card can sit there for $15k and NOT ONE SINGLE person from the various offers over $15k touch it.

The same damn terms being used to desribe the buyer. He is always a friend of the seller. He is always been in contact with the seller. Ironically the Seller knew the buyer prior. Ironically the deal was never done in private but on ebay. Why on ebay? If you trust the buyer so much, why not broker the deal off ebay. I mean you are sending gift paypal, what good is the transaction on ebay? Unless of course you use ebay as a tool to exercise the marketing of a "NEW RECORD PRICE" so people can see and you can use it as a verifiable market trend saying "look last ebay sale was $xxx". Seriously, why?

Talk about a bunch of lemmings in this hobby world. Even a 4yr old kid and can sniff out why his lemonade cant sell on the street while the kid across the street sells allday long for more expensive prices as his family lines up to line his pockets. Seriously.. A bunch of lemmings in this hobby world to turn a blind eye and act as if nothing is happening.

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Old 01-17-2012, 09:27 AM   #345 (permalink)
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lol @ the highest bidder in nats auction has 100% with him as well. it's one thing to do the scheme, it's a whole other thing to log'on and try to prove to everyone it's correct. the sales just aren't legit, you are talking to a whole forum of people who sell cards on an everyday basis, actually on several forums and trying to convince them how cards work when many of us have been selling cards our whole life, your talking to people who have been in the hobby since these jordan cards were released and packed out.

the reason why nothing you could do really makes any sense is because all of this stuff could be easily faked, especially by people who have money, it's really nothing to catch a flight from a to b and mail a card to yourself. or mail a fake card etc. if I were you i'd honestly just be quiet, do what you do and keep it moving. trying to prove yourself is just not going to work.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:02 AM   #346 (permalink)
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Rare23 people do go to prison for fraud. Don’t worry, though I will make sure your cute little Asian girlfriend is taken care of while you’re with bubba. I might even let her see some of my rare Jordan inserts.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:20 AM   #347 (permalink)
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So far to date on every single high end MJ listing that had the same buyers and similar sellers, there has been questionable bidding. I cant for the life of me figure out how pathetic excuses like "Hes a millionaire", "I dont care because I dont buy", "I dont know why" and just put silence are justifiable answers to the questions being asked.

These people just keep deferring the answer and ignore the question. Over an over an over again. They stay silent and expect you you swallow the garbage they spew.

Not one question has been answered yet. Not one damn logical question asked has been answered truthfully or with any facts. They just keep getting deflected to "I dont know". This is the first tell tale sign of a ponzi scheme for a few to get rich from.

Here is the FACT that kills everything...

2 exact high end MJ cards can be listed at one time. One of them will sell for record amounts, while the other doesnt evern get a bid. EXACT same cards and the one with a lower BIN will not be touched yet the 2nd one will have over 100 watchers and 50 offers. THATS NOT LOGICAL. That just wreaks of foul play.

The same sellers getting top dollars selling to the same buyer who pay top dollar.

PMG RED gets listed for $12k and bought by Sir Lannir and gets multiple bids over 10k. Another pops up out of china for $2k lessand NOT ONE SINGLE person from the $12k auction is interested at all.

BGS 9.5 MJ gold Ref /74 shows up for sale at $12k. No one bites. Relisted at $15k. No one bites. Relisted again for $18k, the BAM there are 100 watchers and 50 offers pouring in oh which various offers are over the $15k mark. Yet another auction with same exact card can sit there for $15k and NOT ONE SINGLE person from the various offers over $15k touch it.

The same damn terms being used to desribe the buyer. He is always a friend of the seller. He is always been in contact with the seller. Ironically the Seller knew the buyer prior. Ironically the deal was never done in private but on ebay. Why on ebay? If you trust the buyer so much, why not broker the deal off ebay. I mean you are sending gift paypal, what good is the transaction on ebay? Unless of course you use ebay as a tool to exercise the marketing of a "NEW RECORD PRICE" so people can see and you can use it as a verifiable market trend saying "look last ebay sale was $xxx". Seriously, why?

Talk about a bunch of lemmings in this hobby world. Even a 4yr old kid and can sniff out why his lemonade cant sell on the street while the kid across the street sells allday long for more expensive prices as his family lines up to line his pockets. Seriously.. A bunch of lemmings in this hobby world to turn a blind eye and act as if nothing is happening.
This man speaks the truth, +1
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:42 AM   #348 (permalink)
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On HK forum, even natsturner said that 18k+ was too much for him to pay....

The same natsturner that has overpaid for every jordan card he purchased said 18k+ was too much for him......

A millionaire that overpays for 90's MJ card said even he won't be stupid/crazy enough to pay 18k+ for this card!!!!

What does that say about this buyer, when natsturner finds this price ridiculous?
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:20 PM   #349 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwasian View Post
2 completely different cards sold with the same exact picture? with the same chrome hazing damage from old chrome products in the same exact place?
You should at least apologize to him for calling him out on the 95-96 Finest Refractor since they were clearly 2 different cards with the protective coating in completely different spots. You guys are in attack mode. We are talking about basketball cards! It's not life and death. You guys will argue with him until you can somehow prove he did something wrong in one of his auctions. These high prices do not affect most of us because we couldn't afford them before any of the huge price increases.

Most of you get boners by seeing a stupid 1 inch patch that was on a guys body at a photo shoot for 10 seconds. You pay hundreds for a cut autograph card numbered 1/3 when you could have bought the index card it was cut from for $60. It's just basketball cards, so relax. Who really cares if Jordan's are shilled? If it makes Jordan's sell higher, take advantage of it and sell of your Jordans and buy them back later.
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Old 01-17-2012, 12:37 PM   #350 (permalink)
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I have no clue if these sales are real or not, but I do know the Paypal activity sends up all types of anti-money laundering red flags with the Feds and I hope you're paying taxes on your $6000 "profit" since you will be getting a 1099 from Paypal.
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