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Old 06-07-2012, 01:15 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by cardsdownunder View Post
Okay, got it.
hehe

I know its contradicting

But my personal experience with him was good
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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hehe

I know its contradicting

But my personal experience with him was good
Is that because he paid top dollar for a card?

Defining line here. Would you sell for top dollar to someone you knew was unethical? Thats the fence sitting question here.

Its already been determined that a few members would turn a blind eye to any wrongdoings apparently. So no discussing that.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Is that because he paid top dollar for a card?

Defining line here. Would you sell for top dollar to someone you knew was unethical? Thats the fence sitting question here.

Its already been determined that a few members would turn a blind eye to any wrongdoings apparently. So no discussing that.
Actually bought and traded with him, but as I said, that's my experience.

If he is knowingly selling fake patched cards, then that is just wrong.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:29 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Actually bought and traded with him, but as I said, that's my experience.

If he is knowingly selling fake patched cards, then that is just wrong.
I'm pretty sure he saw this thread a month ago even though it didn't exist!

That's how they roll on HK... they let each other know when they're being talked about, and then they try to come here to defend smh

HK nut huggers I tell ya smh
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:31 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I have no clue if he knows or not that the cards he sometimes sells are fake. But I do know for certain that it would be wrong to sell it after finding out. I hope that people agree with that. Passing the buck off to someone else instead of taking the loss is a bad way of doing business. Bad karma!! Sometimes it comes back to haunt you for the crap you have done. Ironic in this case.

Atleast we know that these cards are altered. What I dont get is Deron said they have been on the open market before for sale and were known to be altered. Wonder why that wasnt caught by this seller?
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:38 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I have no clue if he knows or not that the cards he sometimes sells are fake. But I do know for certain that it would be wrong to sell it after finding out. I hope that people agree with that. Passing the buck off to someone else instead of taking the loss is a bad way of doing business. Bad karma!! Sometimes it comes back to haunt you for the crap you have done. Ironic in this case.

Atleast we know that these cards are altered. What I dont get is Deron said they have been on the open market before for sale and were known to be altered. Wonder why that wasnt caught by this seller?
Rhetorical question:

Why do people by bulk counterfeit merchandise? Because they got a good deal and know they could squeeze a few more dollars out.
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Old 06-07-2012, 01:45 PM   #32 (permalink)
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I have no clue if he knows or not that the cards he sometimes sells are fake. But I do know for certain that it would be wrong to sell it after finding out. I hope that people agree with that. Passing the buck off to someone else instead of taking the loss is a bad way of doing business. Bad karma!! Sometimes it comes back to haunt you for the crap you have done. Ironic in this case.

Atleast we know that these cards are altered. What I dont get is Deron said they have been on the open market before for sale and were known to be altered. Wonder why that wasnt caught by this seller?
And if you're a HUGE high end seller/collector you'd think with the many years of experience and hands-on business, that you'd be skeptical and research before dropping thousands upon thousands of dollars on 'iffy' cards such as these? Unless someone was willing to dump them cheap knowing they were fake, then I can get picking them up cheap and selling them, trying to forget the knowledge of them being fake.



I'll never understand why high end buyers/sellers who sell tons of high end cards, and then have some fake patches or faked cards and somehow get the 'pass' because they 'didnt know' or 'bought in a collection' or some other lame excuse. Things don't get called out of they aren't caught by fellow collectors.

I'm not directing this at Kaine at all, but just saying in general. I've never purchased a fake patch card in 15 years. And if I did, I wouldn't have the gall to sell it as real


My point is, as a high end seller, if you sell 100k per year in cards, your knowledge should prevent you from doing it as well! There's no way you can NOT have that knowledge at this point in the game. The hobby isn't that detailed or massive.


What it boils down to is known deceit and implied naivety when finally accused/questioned.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:06 PM   #33 (permalink)
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BGS doesn't care about the patch, you could literally remove the patch and put a piece of chewed gum in there and they would grade the card.

As long as nothing pertaining to their grading criteria (centering/edges/surface/corners) is interfered or altered ... they will grade the card.


Hence the reason why BGS is a complete JOKE of an immoral company, and those scumbag sellers keep getting away with pulling this BS.

Many sellers do this because they can get away with it. There are constantly new fans/collectors. I've been in the hobby for 15 years and I've seen collectors come and go, but there's always new guys appearing out of the woodworks with apparently deep pockets for cardboard.

Really destroys the integrity of the hobby.

But BGS and eBay are enablers, so these actions WILL continue and likely only get WORSE.

Only reason I asked was since I recently purchased a MJ exq with a part of the bulls logo (I was very skeptical of the card my self but the price was a steal) and when I sent it into get it graded it came back with a .Not Authentic'
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:15 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Another scumbag knowingly selling fake partches...Only another scumbag would support him!.....Greedy bastards!
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Only reason I asked was since I recently purchased a MJ exq with a part of the bulls logo (I was very skeptical of the card my self but the price was a steal) and when I sent it into get it graded it came back with a .Not Authentic'
note.
Which set/year was it? He did have some in 08-09 I think?

Do you have a scan?


BGS will mark it Not Authentic if they notice evidence of tampering. If the patch window is messed up, or the card was halved and glued back and they can tell instantly, they won't bother. It's just if there is no signs or evidence of tampering and a really nice patch (but fake), they will still grade it.
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Old 06-07-2012, 03:51 PM   #36 (permalink)
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pretty much since Ud cannot authenticate their own patches and from what people say here BGS doesn't look at the patch at all (which is 100% false) we should probably just go about assuming every patch we see is fake unless we see a video of it being pulled but then again even the video could have been edited, conclusion: all patches are fake?
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:04 PM   #37 (permalink)
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pretty much since Ud cannot authenticate their own patches and from what people say here BGS doesn't look at the patch at all (which is 100% false) we should probably just go about assuming every patch we see is fake unless we see a video of it being pulled but then again even the video could have been edited, conclusion: all patches are fake?
Depends if you see a glass of water as half full or half emtpy.

How are you going to determine whats real and fake if you dont know? But if you add a bit of logic and reasoning, it becomes much clearer.

I mean how often do you see an NBA Logo patch on authentic exquisite patch cards? Coupling that with the fact that they save the logoman for the logoman subset, it only makes sense no?

Now if a seller has multiple logo man patches from different sets but if you put them all side by side and they equal a full logoman patch?? What are the odds of having exact cuts to make such a pattern to fill out a whole logoman? Its not that hard to be skeptical about that. I mean its tough enough coming across 1, but 3 or 4 of them? In the same show case? Always the same high end player? Come on now!

How about when 90% of the print run has normal patches..then you come across one with a 40 color logo? Id question it as well. Better yet, the seller has the full logo between 3 cards lol.

Its pretty easy to see who and what cards seem to be altered in most cases. Im sure there are some that are hard to tell.

Maybe it takes a hard lesson like this to re evaluate the premiums paid for skeptical patches and authenticity.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Another scumbag knowingly selling fake partches...Only another scumbag would support him!.....Greedy bastards!
LOL

You speak the truth though
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:08 PM   #39 (permalink)
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texas legends did not get all of those from the same person, I actually owned one of them, which I bought from someone who represented it to be authentic, at the time the price was pretty cheap so it didn't really matter much either way, when these westbrook first came on to the market he was pretty much and unknown and was not at all a "high end player" I see your point but there is not really enough evidence either way to prove it real or fake so people assume it looks too good to be true so assume it must be fake
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:11 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Which set/year was it? He did have some in 08-09 I think?

Do you have a scan?


BGS will mark it Not Authentic if they notice evidence of tampering. If the patch window is messed up, or the card was halved and glued back and they can tell instantly, they won't bother. It's just if there is no signs or evidence of tampering and a really nice patch (but fake), they will still grade it.
It was from 03-04 patches set, I guess I was fool for purchasing in so I can't blame no one else.
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:15 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It was from 03-04 patches set, I guess I was fool for purchasing in so I can't blame no one else.
Yeah there were no logos used in 03-04 Exquisite for MJ, sorry

You weren't a fool, just not yet experienced and unfortunately there are a LOT of scumbags and criminals in this hobby!
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:23 PM   #42 (permalink)
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this may be correct in some instances but I have seen and heard of instances where the patch is perfect without signs of tampering and they will not grade it
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:25 PM   #43 (permalink)
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texas legends did not get all of those from the same person, I actually owned one of them, which I bought from someone who represented it to be authentic, at the time the price was pretty cheap so it didn't really matter much either way, when these westbrook first came on to the market he was pretty much and unknown and was not at all a "high end player" I see your point but there is not really enough evidence either way to prove it real or fake so people assume it looks too good to be true so assume it must be fake
I prefer to be skeptical than take a loss. Especially when the deals are too good to be true!!
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
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fair point, better safe than sorry
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Old 06-07-2012, 04:28 PM   #45 (permalink)
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this may be correct in some instances but I have seen and heard of instances where the patch is perfect without signs of tampering and they will not grade it
For grading, I dont think anyone can tell you the standards they use when they reject a card.

I know for a fact that BGS has misgraded, mis labelled and just down right mis handled cards.

I sent in a card that graded BGS 5.5 yes.. a 5.5 and it came back a BGS 9.

I also know that they sent back a card with alterations (Probably mis cut) that they would not grade. So I re submitted it via group submission and it came back graded a 10 Pristine. Go figure.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:29 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Yeah there were no logos used in 03-04 Exquisite for MJ, sorry

You weren't a fool, just not yet experienced and unfortunately there are a LOT of scumbags and criminals in this hobby!
I've only been in the hobby for few years and it amazes the length of people go to get over on someone that is in the same hobby as them.
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Old 06-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #47 (permalink)
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I've only been in the hobby for few years and it amazes the length of people go to get over on someone that is in the same hobby as them.
We are here for the hobby. But there are many people here because of money.
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Old 06-07-2012, 06:04 PM   #48 (permalink)
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It's up to the buyers to arm themselves with the knowledge needed in this market.

There will be fake patches, and no it will never stop. But if it's anyone who deserves a slap on the back of the head, it's the sucker that presses the buy it now button on an Exquisite RPA that is clearly doctored.

Of course I don't condone the scammers themselves, but this is just like those people who fell for the Nigerian email scams years ago. In the end, you have nobody to blame but yourself.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:11 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I've only been in the hobby for few years and it amazes the length of people go to get over on someone that is in the same hobby as them.
That's because to some people, this is ONLY a business. They know that hiding behind a computer screen and conducting on-line sales, they can pull some real BS and get away with it...because, well...there are ALWAYS naive buyers. It's sad the way the hobby has become.

The worst part about it all is, card companies can enact ways to mitigate some of these horrible acts, but they refuse to...likely due to cost, but the worst cost of all is the integrity of the hobby.
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Old 06-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #50 (permalink)
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That's because to some people, this is ONLY a business. They know that hiding behind a computer screen and conducting on-line sales, they can pull some real BS and get away with it...because, well...there are ALWAYS naive buyers. It's sad the way the hobby has become.

The worst part about it all is, card companies can enact ways to mitigate some of these horrible acts, but they refuse to...likely due to cost, but the worst cost of all is the integrity of the hobby.
It doesn't really cost much money to take pictures...... What, maybe the computer storage space? Does it really cost that much?

Panini already puts out photos of cards every time they come out with a new product. They put sneak peaks and so on... Don't think it would be a big deal to take a scam of every card. One person, one camera.......... lol
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