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Old 08-13-2012, 01:25 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PWCC Auctions View Post
We usually refrain from interjecting in these forums because we believe that they provide just the kind of check-and-balance that the hobby needs. When the discussion moves towards accusation, I do feel inclined to set the record straight.

The claims that our auction house artificially raises bids by paul06901 and others are unfounded and verge on slander. Actually, our practices are quite the contrary.

We believe that eBay is the best forum to host auctions due to the privacy of the eBay platform. While other auction houses have their own in-house software with no oversight, eBay’s software is as transparent to the buyer as it is to the seller. In other words, we don’t know the value of buyer’s max bid nor do our consignors or anyone else. We do NOT permit shill bidding of any kind, and we do NOT permit our consignors to bid on their own items. We actively police our auctions, and if we learn that a bid is questionable, we will take action in the form of cancelling the bid or even blocking a bidder from participating in any future auctions. Bidders with low feedback are contacted in advance, and if we can not confirm that they are serious bidders, their bid will be cancelled.

In addition to the moral objection and the inherent impracticality of shill bidding (on eBay), PWCC is strictly a consignment-based auction house, making a small percentage on each sale, and therefore realizes no financial gain from bid manipulation. To the contrary, such action would only create stress due to greater numbers of unpaid items, relisted items, and frustrated honest bidders. As a fellow collector in the hobby, I would rather be out of business than to engage in dishonest acts that strip the hobby of its foundation.

Our business has been built over the past 15 years by slowly establishing a base of regular clients, by driving efficiency into our processes so we can offer consignors lower rates, and by insisting on honesty and integrity. Clearly, as we’ve grown into new markets, folks question the means by which we garner the bids we do. I would be pleased to discuss any concerns that the hobby may have, and encourage posters on these and other message boards to contact me directly. Nobody cares more about the integrity of our auctions than I.

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How do you explain the bidding habits and practices. For example, the member in question above. With such low feedback and such high bid counts ... it raises a red flag.

We are at this board are not out to witch hunt, but when things seem off, they usually are.

BigBoyd explained himself as well on the board in the baseball section, but yet his auctions still have consistent and extremely sketchy bidding tendencies.

I also don't understand how you claim you would not financially gain from bid manipulation? That is exactly what bid manipulation would provide?


The accusations that many on this board have made/supported were based off of what we see in your auctions. It's not slander, it's general discussion on a message board based off of the facts and information provided/available.

We watch out for each other here, and when suspicion is raised ... we react with what we are given to determine the situation.



Whether or not you and your company is legit is not the concern of our message board discussions. We are here to watch out for each other, and make sure that nobody is being shilled/manipulated into paying more on an auction(s) that is being tampered with. And examples such as this one above bring up red flags and question the integrity of your company that you describe.

It's not slander or bashing, it's simple discussing using facts. Whether or not we have enough facts to go off of is something that is always an issue of concern, and I will admit that.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:28 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Whos the snitch?
Seriously it blows my mind how someone (non member) gets called out and within a couple days that person becomes member an responds. It's happened like 5 times in last couple weeks.

Just crazy.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:34 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Seriously it blows my mind how someone (non member) gets called out and within a couple days that person becomes member an responds. It's happened like 5 times in last couple weeks.

Just crazy.
I know mind-boggling.
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Old 08-13-2012, 01:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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PWCC is strictly a consignment-based auction house, making a small percentage on each sale, and therefore realizes no financial gain from bid manipulation

Did he just say this . Of course he has financial gain from bid manipulation . The higher the prices the more cards he will get to list .

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Old 08-13-2012, 01:38 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Bidding Details

high bidder bid on 1000 auctions so 18 percent mean he bid on a 180 items of the seller . what a joke
I dont think youre calculating the % right. The percentage is for the BIDS, not the items. That means of all the bids for this account over the past 30 days, 19% are on PWCC items.

I have no opinion about PWCC either way, I have bid on many of his items before and probably never won any because they always go high. That doesnt automatically signal "shilling", to me at least. People like to throw that word around freely, when they dont even understand what the numbers and % mean.

This is a real shiller, without a doubt.


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Old 08-13-2012, 01:51 PM   #31 (permalink)
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chayzz yup he is another to add to the list
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Old 08-13-2012, 02:09 PM   #32 (permalink)
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chayzz yup he is another to add to the list
Holly crap that guy is shill bidding on almost all of his items. You can look at his completed auctions and see most of those are shill bis as well. What a bastared.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:24 PM   #33 (permalink)
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PWCC is strictly a consignment-based auction house, making a small percentage on each sale, and therefore realizes no financial gain from bid manipulation

Did he just say this . Of course he has financial gain from bid manipulation . The higher the prices the more cards he will get to list .
He means that if he would shill and win the auction, his consignor still gets paid, and PWCC has to put the card in their inventory, pay the consignor, and pay ebay and PP their fees. Its not the best idea in the world to be a sell on consignment and take those items into inventory...that's a horrible way to run a consignment business.

I don't know if he has shilled or not. He obviously gets a lot of consignment business, so to me it wouldn't be the best practice to get a few extra bucks while risking losing bidders and purchasing unwanted inventory.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:31 PM   #34 (permalink)
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I think there is questionable bidding going on. But not at the fault of the seller. I think its being done by those who consign these cards to be sold by the seller. Thats just my opinion. The seller would have no way of controlling this at all, hence why I asked the question about his safeguards against those who consign cards to sell that will bid using various accounts.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:36 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I think there is questionable bidding going on. But not at the fault of the seller. I think its being done by those who consign these cards to be sold by the seller. Thats just my opinion. The seller would have no way of controlling this at all, hence why I asked the question about his safeguards against those who consign cards to sell that will bid using various accounts.
I full expect this as well, sadly. And the consignor has 0 control save for a policy of not accepting returns AND not paying out the consignor until weeks after the auction closed (so no chargebacks, etc). And no consignor will consign with them if they implement such a practice.
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Old 08-13-2012, 03:38 PM   #36 (permalink)
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the do have some incentive though as if the price goes higher they get higher commission and also if other people see their listing going higher they might be more likely to consign.

I just bid on 2 items with them and got out bid by $5 on each one, didn't seem quite right
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:00 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
I think there is questionable bidding going on. But not at the fault of the seller. I think its being done by those who consign these cards to be sold by the seller. Thats just my opinion. The seller would have no way of controlling this at all, hence why I asked the question about his safeguards against those who consign cards to sell that will bid using various accounts.
Exactly the point I brought up in the other thread -
"Also rather than just blanketing them as a shiller, they're a consignor... so the owner of the cards (and his mates) would be the ones shilling it - therefore the bid percentages would likely be low.
Not saying this is definitely happening, just an explanation as to why it wouldn't be obvious if it was... "

The seller may be completely innocent and unknowing of any shilling, but that doesn't mean it's not happening - whoever owns these cards has an interest in them selling for higher prices and may use several different accounts to bump the prices up.
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:05 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Exactly the point I brought up in the other thread -
"Also rather than just blanketing them as a shiller, they're a consignor... so the owner of the cards (and his mates) would be the ones shilling it - therefore the bid percentages would likely be low.
Not saying this is definitely happening, just an explanation as to why it wouldn't be obvious if it was... "

The seller may be completely innocent and unknowing of any shilling, but that doesn't mean it's not happening - whoever owns these cards has an interest in them selling for higher prices and may use several different accounts to bump the prices up.
I talked with an eBay rep a few months back and he was very knowledgeable of things. He stated he knew this was going on, and they were working on a way to stop this.

Unfortunately, there really is no way.

The only way I could see it happening is if you bid on a card, you can only bid if you have 'xxxx' amount in your Paypal balance, or it would lock it in a Paypal credit transfer/payment.

But I guess even then, if they did shill it and win they would be paying themselves.

I guess it's really inevitable, and the more and more people know this ... it's becoming blatantly obvious they are taking part in doing so.

Not saying prewar directly shills them, but because the people he consigns for do, it's benefiting him and eBay as well. It's pretty awful that this is possible, and that there are many others benefiting from this ... eBay has gotten pretty damn corrupt over the past 10 years...
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Old 08-13-2012, 05:22 PM   #39 (permalink)
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It seems like the sellers simply shill their own auctions that PWCC is hosting. I don't see how anyone could possibly police that if they just have friends or fake accounts do the bidding.

PWCC could be 100% honest and the auctions could still be shilled.

I have bought from him - lower-valued cards - at fair prices that were not shilled. I have been outbid on every higher priced MJ or KD that I bid on, and I've won a lot of KD auctions.
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Old 08-13-2012, 08:59 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Not to mention the 30 fb of the winner and they're bidding on 1000+ items?

And the bids appear to be in a mechanical-like sequence.

I wonder if prewar has created shilling bots masked within an eBay ID?

They seem like one of the sketchiest eBay card dealers out there ... I have no idea how the government would not be investigating them, possibly auditing them, given the fact they sell what seems like $100k worth of cards every week.


I know they sell consignment, but this shilling is so blatant and it's essentially STEALING! Whether it's them physically doing it, having someone randomly associated with them do it for them, or having a client do this for them.
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Me too. I love his monthly auctions. I probably bid on 500-800 of his auctions each month. I think many people do. I scroll through all of his listings and place bids. I win 10-15 cards each month from him. I've never 'overpaid'.
These comments clash with each other!!

If a bidder has over 1000 bids but only 30 fb, it means that (at most) in 1000 bids, he won 30 auctions, which equates to .03%.

Yet fullmetal claims to bid on 500-800 auctions and only win 10-15. Base on winning 15 auctions from 500 bids, that also equates to .03%

Yet fullmetal's bids aren't fishy!

Not saying the seller is or isn't doing anything untoward as I don't make assumptions either way, but I am merely pointing out that the same thing looked at from 2 different angles means 2 completely different things??
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:21 PM   #41 (permalink)
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These comments clash with each other!!

If a bidder has over 1000 bids but only 30 fb, it means that (at most) in 1000 bids, he won 30 auctions, which equates to .03%.

Yet fullmetal claims to bid on 500-800 auctions and only win 10-15. Base on winning 15 auctions from 500 bids, that also equates to .03%

Yet fullmetal's bids aren't fishy!

Not saying the seller is or isn't doing anything untoward as I don't make assumptions either way, but I am merely pointing out that the same thing looked at from 2 different angles means 2 completely different things??



Yeah but fullmetal has thousands and thousands of positive feedbacks over his many years on eBay. The ID in question has 30. I wish we could see the date that account started on eBay...
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Yeah but fullmetal has thousands and thousands of positive feedbacks over his many years on eBay. The ID in question has 30. I wish we could see the date that account started on eBay...
I find that pretty suspect as well. 30 feedback with over 1000 bids places.

I think Matt buys more than anyone else in here. Sorry Matt! lol
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:34 PM   #43 (permalink)
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Yeah but fullmetal has thousands and thousands of positive feedbacks over his many years on eBay. The ID in question has 30. I wish we could see the date that account started on eBay...
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I find that pretty suspect as well. 30 feedback with over 1000 bids places.

I think Matt buys more than anyone else in here. Sorry Matt! lol
Fair enough then!

So it isn't really odd if this happens over the years, but if it starts from the beginning it is odd.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:41 PM   #44 (permalink)
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It's really funny how these shillers feel like they have to create an account to defend themselves. My god, just don't shill.
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Old 08-13-2012, 09:49 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I buy from PWCC monthly and each time I was happy with the purchases, just picked up a Speaker and was happy with the price
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:24 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Seriously it blows my mind how someone (non member) gets called out and within a couple days that person becomes member an responds. It's happened like 5 times in last couple weeks.

Just crazy.
Bitter HK members/BO haters.... what else is new. Yet they come here all the time because HK is dead...... LOL

Hint: Someone who "invests" in Jordan 90's inserts and/or Jordan Exquisite cards... most likely the person to contact this ebay seller. So that maybe a stop can be put to all these threads where the public is warned and their cards can keep falsely rising in price smh....

Funny how people love their cards more when they think they're actually valuable SMH frigen fake a$$ "collectors." Investors in disguise... Even if the prices are false, they're still happy that some might believe the manipulated auctions and some how pat them on the back for "super sick exspensive" cards smh LOL Yet, they either paid 1/10th the prices of the fake auctions, or they're mad cause they were actually stupid enough to pay the bogus prices, but now realized all the scams and they're mad at the world, so they protect their "investment" with any chance they get....

I know, I good.... what can you do.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:46 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Bitter HK members/BO haters.... what else is new. Yet they come here all the time because HK is dead...... LOL

Hint: Someone who "invests" in Jordan 90's inserts and/or Jordan Exquisite cards... most likely the person to contact this ebay seller. So that maybe a stop can be put to all these threads where the public is warned and their cards can keep falsely rising in price smh....

Funny how people love their cards more when they think they're actually valuable SMH frigen fake a$$ "collectors." Investors in disguise... Even if the prices are false, they're still happy that some might believe the manipulated auctions and some how pat them on the back for "super sick exspensive" cards smh LOL Yet, they either paid 1/10th the prices of the fake auctions, or they're mad cause they were actually stupid enough to pay the bogus prices, but now realized all the scams and they're mad at the world, so they protect their "investment" with any chance they get....

I know, I good.... what can you do.
So far you posted on like 5 threads the same stupid BS. Get some new material. I think you are the biggest reason the basketball threads go to sh!t.
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Old 08-13-2012, 11:49 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Not everything that sells for a good amount of money is shilled or fake...These threads of accusing everybody are outta control..
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:12 AM   #49 (permalink)
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So far you posted on like 5 threads the same stupid BS. Get some new material. I think you are the biggest reason the basketball threads go to sh!t.
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Old 08-14-2012, 12:55 AM   #50 (permalink)
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I recently bid on a PWCC auction...It was the Jerry West Number Pieces....It went for way higher than i thought it would...I was the 2nd highest bidder and the winner of the auction is a member here....So i know for a fact that that particular auction wasnt shilled....It was just me and him going at it...Thats the only experience i had with PWCC....Guy seems kool when i pm'd him and said he would accept a Postal Money Order if i won...
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