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Old 08-14-2012, 07:26 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by pingbling23 View Post
for everyone asking, the bgs 9.5 sells in the 4k-6k range.
So that known wouldn't it be misleading to list this as strictly a Psa 10?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I just would like to know where people in the hobby stand in this.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:26 PM   #27 (permalink)
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For the registry? Explain that. Why does the registry make the card worth more?
Because people want the #1 set registry with PSA. It makes their graded cards more desirable to some people. Not everyone does the registry. But they have a huge following for it.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:27 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
So that known wouldn't it be misleading to list this as strictly a Psa 10?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I just would like to know where people in the hobby stand in this.
When are you ever *not* argumentative?
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:27 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So that known wouldn't it be misleading to list this as strictly a Psa 10?

I'm not trying to be argumentative I just would like to know where people in the hobby stand in this.
He isn't selling a BGS 9.5. He is selling a PSA 10. That is all that matters.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:27 PM   #30 (permalink)
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When are you ever *not* argumentative?
Was thinking the same thing.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:28 PM   #31 (permalink)
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When are you ever *not* argumentative?
Please stop trolling. Go lift some weights.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:28 PM   #32 (permalink)
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For the registry? Explain that. Why does the registry make the card worth more?
i think part of it is because the ratio of PSA 10 MJs to the total MJ PSA graded population is much lower than the ratio of BGS 9.5 MJs to the total MJ BGS graded population, making a PSA 10 rarer than a BGS 9.5. i dont have a PSA subscription, but of the 6222 BGS graded MJs (excluding the 4 pristine 10s), 272 have received a 9.5, which is about 4.4% of the total population. someone else can crunch the numbers on the PSA side.

***EDIT***

so you can access the PSA pop report without a subscription. of the 13,127 PSA graded MJs, 145 have received a PSA 10, which is about just over 1% of the total population. thats a big difference.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:29 PM   #33 (permalink)
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He isn't selling a BGS 9.5. He is selling a PSA 10. That is all that matters.
Is it not a bgs 9.5 as well?

People need to stop getting their feelings hurt. I'm asking a legit hobby question and would like to know opinions of members.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:32 PM   #34 (permalink)
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He isn't selling a BGS 9.5. He is selling a PSA 10. That is all that matters.
Agree 100%
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:34 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Is it not a bgs 9.5 as well?

People need to stop getting their feelings hurt. I'm asking a legit hobby question and would like to know opinions of members.
The card is not in a BGS 9.5 holder. Once it is cracked out, the grade is no longer guaranteed.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:54 PM   #36 (permalink)
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The card is not in a BGS 9.5 holder. Once it is cracked out, the grade is no longer guaranteed.
I understand what you are saying and I might buy it. haha

I guess though if someone was to ask if it was previously graded he would need to explain. If not then I think that would be very wrong.

Like I said it was just a question that popped to mind and was wondering what people thought. I mean it's similar to busting something out and then just selling it raw.
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Old 08-14-2012, 07:57 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I understand what you are saying and I might buy it. haha

I guess though if someone was to ask if it was previously graded he would need to explain. If not then I think that would be very wrong.

Like I said it was just a question that popped to mind and was wondering what people thought. I mean it's similar to busting something out and then just selling it raw.
I think everyone would agree that if someone asked you if it was ever graded by beckett that you should tell them it was a 9.5 but you won't guarantee it grades the same. But since it is no longer in a BGS 9.5 holder and BGS won't guarantee the grade, it can only cause you problems by disclosing it. If you state in an auction that it was a BGS 9.5 and someone cracks it out and resubmits to beckett and gets a 9, then you will be called a liar/scammer for telling someone it was a 9.5.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:34 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Congrats on the crossover. update us with a scan when you get that GEM in -- You popped it or sent it in for review?

For others not to familiar with vintage/psa/regisrty; I know 1986 is not considered Vintage but it can be in the discussion - It's just plain and simple, for older cards, PSA 10's sells for more than BGS 9.5's, BVG 9.5's, and for Modern cards/autographs BGS is preferred.

PSA specializes in Vintage and collectors trust them more, they know more about set(vintage) imperfections more than BGS, not to mention the PSA registry separates the boys from the men.. For instance about a year ago a PSA 10 (pop 2 or 3) 1988 Fleer Larry Bird sold for 5k just so that one collector can surpass another or get closer to their ultimate goal of having the finest set.. A bgs 9.5 of the same card would not even sell for 500.

other example of sales; a BVG 10 Pristine (not BVG 9.5) 1969 Lew Alcindor sold for around 10-12k, A PSA 10 would sell upwards of 40k at least..
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:43 PM   #39 (permalink)
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congrats!

Though I'm a bit confused. Looking at the psa service level charts, seems like the '5 day' grading service is only available for cards with a declared value of 500-1999. So are you saying you undervalued the card to qualify for the 5 day service and save the extra 30 bucks?

That's one thing I hate about psa, is you have to select the service level and turnaround time according to the price of the card, unlike bgs which doesn't care if it's a 4 dollar of 7000 card...you can select whatever turnaround you want.
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Old 08-14-2012, 08:44 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jr24ai3 View Post
I think everyone would agree that if someone asked you if it was ever graded by beckett that you should tell them it was a 9.5 but you won't guarantee it grades the same. But since it is no longer in a BGS 9.5 holder and BGS won't guarantee the grade, it can only cause you problems by disclosing it. If you state in an auction that it was a BGS 9.5 and someone cracks it out and resubmits to beckett and gets a 9, then you will be called a liar/scammer for telling someone it was a 9.5.
I disagree. A PSA 10 should not grade as low as a 9 - unless someone handling it (ie the buyer busting it or grader unpacking it) has screwed up.
I do agree that it can cause you problems by disclosing it - in the form of lower sales figure - but that's morally the right thing to do.

Grading... why pay more, it's just a gimmick.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:19 PM   #41 (permalink)
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It makes me chuckle that people think there is some moral obligation to identify that this was a bgs 9.5. It's not a bgs 9.5 now, and there is no guarantee it would be a 9.5 if I cracked it out (or that it wouldn't be a bgs 10 if I resubbed there). Grading is a snapshot in time of someone's opinion - that's it. It's why people resub - they differ in opinion (right or wrong) of the interpretation of the cards condition in relation to the companies grading standards.
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:31 PM   #42 (permalink)
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It makes me chuckle that people think there is some moral obligation to identify that this was a bgs 9.5. It's not a bgs 9.5 now, and there is no guarantee it would be a 9.5 if I cracked it out (or that it wouldn't be a bgs 10 if I resubbed there). Grading is a snapshot in time of someone's opinion - that's it. It's why people resub - they differ in opinion (right or wrong) of the interpretation of the cards condition in relation to the companies grading standards.
i never said it was a moral obligation. so i don't know who thats addressed too.

my question is if you were to resell and someone asked you about the history of the card or if it was ever graded by bgs what would you say?

or someone offered you saying they were going to try for bgs 10? what would you say?

i'll state it again. i wanted to know what people thought about it as i've seen many threads in which people get all up in arms over someone who breaks a bgs or psa card and sells it raw. its quite a similar event as to this and i wanted to know what the general consensus was...
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Old 08-14-2012, 11:44 PM   #43 (permalink)
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i never said it was a moral obligation. so i don't know who thats addressed too.

my question is if you were to resell and someone asked you about the history of the card or if it was ever graded by bgs what would you say?

or someone offered you saying they were going to try for bgs 10? what would you say?

i'll state it again. i wanted to know what people thought about it as i've seen many threads in which people get all up in arms over someone who breaks a bgs or psa card and sells it raw. its quite a similar event as to this and i wanted to know what the general consensus was...
You like to ask a lot of questions around here. Well what would you do?

Would you tell people that the card was a BGS 9.5, knowing it might cost you thousands of dollars? It is easy to ask questions, but by the way you act around here I sense you take the 7k and run. If I took a big gamble like Burke did I would hope to get paid off. Card is now PSA 10...end of story.
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:05 AM   #44 (permalink)
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You like to ask a lot of questions around here. Well what would you do?

Would you tell people that the card was a BGS 9.5, knowing it might cost you thousands of dollars? It is easy to ask questions, but by the way you act around here I sense you take the 7k and run. If I took a big gamble like Burke did I would hope to get paid off. Card is now PSA 10...end of story.
lol.

You know me so well!

LMAO that doesn't even deserve a real response.
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:17 AM   #45 (permalink)
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You like to ask a lot of questions around here. Well what would you do?

Would you tell people that the card was a BGS 9.5, knowing it might cost you thousands of dollars? It is easy to ask questions, but by the way you act around here I sense you take the 7k and run. If I took a big gamble like Burke did I would hope to get paid off. Card is now PSA 10...end of story.
Isn't that EXACTLY why it's a question of morality?
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:46 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Isn't that EXACTLY why it's a question of morality?
Nope. Card is PSA 10.

If this was my card I would not say anything about it being a BGS 9.5. If somebody that was interested in buying it asked me if it was graded before I would be honest and say yes.

I would not put the previous grade in my auction.
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Old 08-15-2012, 12:59 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Just because it was a BGS 9.5 has 0 influence on what it might get if someone were to try and cross it back as a BGS 10. I haven't thought if I would tell someone it was a bgs 9.5, but I won't advertise it because it's misleading in that someone may think that's what it would be if they tried to cross it back (and there is no guarantee). As jt16 says, it's a psa 10 now. How it got there is inconsequential. I mean really - if you buy a red car and paint it black, should you disclose that car was once red? Who gives a rip? They can paint it red if they want if they buy it from you.

It's different than cracking a card out and selling raw, but even there what's wrong with cracking out a bgs 8 and selling the card as nmmt (assuming it wasn't damaged and card is accurately described)? Would you not want an accurate description? Where does morality factor in if you accurately describe something you sell?
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:59 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Just because it was a BGS 9.5 has 0 influence on what it might get if someone were to try and cross it back as a BGS 10. I haven't thought if I would tell someone it was a bgs 9.5, but I won't advertise it because it's misleading in that someone may think that's what it would be if they tried to cross it back (and there is no guarantee). As jt16 says, it's a psa 10 now. How it got there is inconsequential. I mean really - if you buy a red car and paint it black, should you disclose that car was once red? Who gives a rip? They can paint it red if they want if they buy it from you.

It's different than cracking a card out and selling raw, but even there what's wrong with cracking out a bgs 8 and selling the card as nmmt (assuming it wasn't damaged and card is accurately described)? Would you not want an accurate description? Where does morality factor in if you accurately describe something you sell?
Well the car analogy is completely not the same thing.

So if someone were to ask you about if it was previously graded or said they were going to try and get it graded by bgs what would you say?

Oh an you really think someone would buy a Psa 10 to cross to a bgs 9.5? Lol
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:22 AM   #49 (permalink)
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The reason why BGS 9.5 have taken a bit of a dip for the majority of them is because people are discounting and paying premiums based on subgrades. Most BGS 9.5 with a 9.0 sub or no 10 subs get the lower end while 1 or 2 10 subs get much higher.

Atleast with PSA 10s and no breakdown in subs it keeps it more consistent. For me personally the difference between a 0.5 sub bump within a bgs 9.5 is not worth a 1-2k premium.
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Old 08-15-2012, 11:25 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Just because it was a BGS 9.5 has 0 influence on what it might get if someone were to try and cross it back as a BGS 10. I haven't thought if I would tell someone it was a bgs 9.5, but I won't advertise it because it's misleading in that someone may think that's what it would be if they tried to cross it back (and there is no guarantee). As jt16 says, it's a psa 10 now. How it got there is inconsequential. I mean really - if you buy a red car and paint it black, should you disclose that car was once red? Who gives a rip? They can paint it red if they want if they buy it from you.

It's different than cracking a card out and selling raw, but even there what's wrong with cracking out a bgs 8 and selling the card as nmmt (assuming it wasn't damaged and card is accurately described)? Would you not want an accurate description? Where does morality factor in if you accurately describe something you sell?
Back in the old days, D&A used to roam card expos buying up bgs 9s. Having them crossed over to psa 10 then recrossing them to bgs 9.5 This was back in the early 00s. I followed suit on a few. I did it with a bgs 9 98 SPX Spectrum rc. BGS 9 to psa 10 to BGS 9.5
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