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Old 08-28-2012, 02:46 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I also wish Panini would send me the redemption they owe me since I redeemed it back in December of 2010! I asked for a replacement and still nothing. Terrible customer service if you ask me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:48 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Un-inspiring garbage sprinkled with a few glimmers of hope sparsely laid in between.

That, and they don't go with anything else in my collection.
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Old 08-28-2012, 02:48 PM   #28 (permalink)
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worst manufacturer in the hobby. consistently delivers about 10% of money spent back with each box break. stunned they are still in business.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
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You don't know what you're talking about. Your just too clouded to think straight... smh

My son bought himself a box of Panini Hoops for $44!

All the card companies to what you said about Panini. They copy from all the other sports......... what else is new? Stop but hugging UD because most their cards suck imo. You must get your panties wet when you see the FAKE prices and base your opinion on the prices that "were paid" and not the card design, because most their designs just don't do it for me. I don't go based on what sells for more, I go based on what I like! That's the difference.

But people today are very easy to fall for all the fake prices and make their panties get wet when they see a patch/auto of a certain brand compared to another....... when at the end of the day they're the same card! A PATCH AUTO!!!! If anything, the product that cost less has the better the design smh lol some people I tell ya.

Fake prices don't make a better card, it's the design and over all look of the card.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:32 PM   #30 (permalink)
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You don't know what you're talking about. Your just too clouded to think straight... smh

My son bought himself a box of Panini Hoops for $44!

All the card companies to what you said about Panini. They copy from all the other sports......... what else is new? Stop but hugging UD because most their cards suck imo. You must get your panties wet when you see the FAKE prices and base your opinion on the prices that "were paid" and not the card design, because most their designs just don't do it for me. I don't go based on what sells for more, I go based on what I like! That's the difference.

But people today are very easy to fall for all the fake prices and make their panties get wet when they see a patch/auto of a certain brand compared to another....... when at the end of the day they're the same card! A PATCH AUTO!!!! If anything, the product that cost less has the better the design smh lol some people I tell ya.

Fake prices don't make a better card, it's the design and over all look of the card.
Panini Hoops 11-12 and 12-13 are both at $68 MSRP here on BO... Yes, the market dictated that the $68 per box value wasn't going to hold and that is why you can get it at $44...surprise surprise, another Panini product that has a lower secondary market value than MSRP.

So again, if the "market" devalue a product, does it make sense that maybe the product is not good and hence the manufacturer is also hmmmmm.... SUCKS!!!

I didn't even bring up the resale value in my original post, so I am not going to go into that. Ask 100 basketball collector if they would rather have an exquisite rookie (the cup) or NT... I don't even need to tell you what most of them would say...

Why don't you think Panini hasn't cross branded NT in Hockey.. because they know they can't compete!!! so they came up with the lamo Dominion. Every argument you make just makes you look uninformed...

You can say you like the design.. that is your opinion... But the OP wants to know why people Panini hate, and if you can handle the truth, then don't bother coming into a post where you know Panini was going to be trashed!!!
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:42 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I don't hate Panini I just have issues with how they operate. 1.) how they handled last years lockout, 2.) MAPP pricing policy (over pricing), 3.) Poor customer service but has improved this year, 4.) horrible track record with redemption fulfillment, 5.) my biggest complaint; horrible communication and always delaying products right before launch.

Yes, I realize that UD also has similar problems and I dislike them just as much. However, Panini won the contract to be exclusive and they should of planned for these issues which they have failed on greatly.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:44 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Panini Hoops 11-12 and 12-13 are both at $68 MSRP here on BO... Yes, the market dictated that the $68 per box value wasn't going to hold and that is why you can get it at $44...surprise surprise, another Panini product that has a lower secondary market value than MSRP.

So again, if the "market" devalue a product, does it make sense that maybe the product is not good and hence the manufacturer is also hmmmmm.... SUCKS!!!

I didn't even bring up the resale value in my original post, so I am not going to go into that. Ask 100 basketball collector if they would rather have an exquisite rookie (the cup) or NT... I don't even need to tell you what most of them would say...

Why don't you think Panini hasn't cross branded NT in Hockey.. because they know they can't compete!!! so they came up with the lamo Dominion. Every argument you make just makes you look uninformed...

You can say you like the design.. that is your opinion... But the OP wants to know why people Panini hate, and if you can handle the truth, then don't bother coming into a post where you know Panini was going to be trashed!!!
I don't blame them one bit for trying to get more first........ I don't like Panini Hoops, but my son bought it and got two autos!! He couldn't be happier for 44 bucks.

Like I said, they have to make something for everybody..... and if they can sueeze more out of parents, and then later the price goes down then so be it. They don't have to buy it, but one thing is for sure though, they will sell out!

I stick with Panini high end, the ones I like.... what's the point of bitching about all the others that I don't like from them? I think there's a bigger reason why people are bitching about cards THEY DON'T EVEN BUY just because they know many cards are AMAZING and Panini is getting it done, and they're worried about their precious cards from other companies, and they're affraid their cards will lose their shine, which they WILL. All in time..... I will be here to see it. I bet these same people secretly buy Panni high end stuff LOL

Besides the Lebron RC set, i've take NT patch/rookie/autos over any other Exquisite RC's.... Panini is getting those rookie cards DONE! They all look so sexy. While UD got it right the first year only in my opinion.

I don't like ALL Nike shoes that were ever made because I like the Nike....... I just like certain shoes they come out with, just a very small hand full. Same with card brands. It's all about the particular card with me, not the price "it sells for" or because a pack/box/case cost so much smh it's all about the individual card, period end of story.

I'm not going to hate the ENTIRE company because I don't like a particular brand(s).... think about it.
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Old 08-28-2012, 03:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I understand your point, but read all the posting across the board. It is just not a product or two.. it is across all their product lines...

Their baseball products are a joke, hockey the same, and basketball blah... only thing they are doing a half decent job is football and that is only with few products...

Going back to making something for everyone... Hoops is their low-end product and that is $68 per box!!! Upper Deck had Victory which was $30 per box for 36 packs... even the base UD was no more than $50 retail.$1.99 per pack with 24 packs... Again, they are not really bring in new collectors to the community that I know for sure... kids are not looking for basketball cards like when I was their age... that is the truth...

Again, ask around see how many collectors are happy that their exclusive contract is expiring..
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:11 PM   #34 (permalink)
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for me personally I just really dislike how they have a monopoly in basketball cards, I love topps products for baseball/football etc.... I just wish it were more companies and competition on everything, I hate how it's just one lane with the cards...... would really love some chrome, refractors, finest... those are great products.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:15 PM   #35 (permalink)
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I have basically been collecting cards my whole life and for me Upper Deck and even Topps products around 2007 and 2008 were starting to get bland. I miss the 90's when it comes to card collection, I won't lie. I personally think Panini overall is decent, not great but not terrible either. I have never been a huge fan of Upper Deck (except most AUTO's are on-card). IMO UD was always overpriced and it was almost impossible to get your money back whenever you bought boxes. Plus with Baseball it's the same every year. Bowman Chrome just doesn't do it for me anymore.

I did redeem a Manny Machado AUTO through Panini and I had no problems with them myself.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:52 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Major_League View Post
* Redemption after Redemption.
* UGLY Product
* Redemption's that never ship
* Sticker Sticker Sticker
* Cheaply made products

What's to like really?
This is the crap that makes me mad. I don't mind if people hate Panini for their designs or for the price of their boxes or the return from them. When people complain about the crap above, this is things UD did much worse. Their customer service was the worst. They had stickers in almost every product and they had a crap load of redemptions. UD's first year of Exquisite..MJ redemptions. Last year of SPGU most sticker autos in a product in history. Their customer service history with redemptions was the worst. Do you know how many redemptions I had that I waited years for to only get replaced with junk? Do you know how many Panini redemptions I've had? Around 6-7 and all of them were shipped on time. Only one wasn't made and it was replaced with a better, on card auto of the player. You can hate the company just for the name or their products or whatever, but don't complain about crap that UD did much, much worse.
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Old 08-28-2012, 04:56 PM   #37 (permalink)
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This is the crap that makes me mad. I don't mind if people hate Panini for their designs or for the price of their boxes or the return from them. When people complain about the crap above, this is things UD did much worse. Their customer service was the worst. They had stickers in almost every product and they had a crap load of redemptions. UD's first year of Exquisite..MJ redemptions. Last year of SPGU most sticker autos in a product in history. Their customer service history with redemptions was the worst. Do you know how many redemptions I had that I waited years for to only get replaced with junk? Do you know how many Panini redemptions I've had? Around 6-7 and all of them were shipped on time. Only one wasn't made and it was replaced with a better, on card auto of the player. You can hate the company just for the name or their products or whatever, but don't complain about crap that UD did much, much worse.
I don't recall this being a Panini vs UD thread???

UD also sucks.

Happy?
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:09 PM   #38 (permalink)
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same as already been said. similar products at similar price points with the same 4 hits per box. redemption filled products that take forever to get made/shipped. high end products that fail to deliver content. overproduction of Kobe autos. designs that aren't visually appealing.

that said, they have had some good products. i love National Treasures and even though it's never gonna be Exquisite, i think it does well as a high end brand. Silhouttes were some of the nicest cards they ever made.

in the end though, the exclusive really sucks, even though that's not Panini's fault. the NBA and MLB need to have at least two companies making liscensed stuff so that there's some competition and incentive for the companies to improve. plus, there's just so much history with stuff like Exquisite, Fleer, and Topps brands that it sucks that they aren't being produced anymore. Upper Deck had some crap products too, but I would be down for some NBA Ultimate, Black, Chronology, or Exquisite right about now. what would also help Pannini is if UD no longer had exclusive rights to Jordan/Lebron autos. even under the Panini name, a Bulls Jordan auto or Heat LeBron auto would be amazing to the hobby right now, so long as Panini followed UD's template and knew how to short print them properly. i'm holding out hope that the NBA does allow a second company to make cards, if not i'm probably gonna stick to National Treasures only until they do.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:14 PM   #39 (permalink)
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I don't recall this being a Panini vs UD thread???

UD also sucks.

Happy?
Seriously, this is the most infuriating argument. Just because one company sucked and had problems, what bearing does that have on another company that sucks and has problems?

I would agree with all of ML's points, and add in terrible value (on almost every product they put out) and the laughable MAPP which most always drops like a lead weight, when the artificial price floor is lifted.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:44 PM   #40 (permalink)
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For some it's the real reasons mentioned here.........

But for others, it's just because they like what they see but they will never admit it because they would like for their cards to be king of the world lol smh

The fast is, Panini is making some of the best cards this hobby has ever seen, and that's that. Nothing these people can do about it, except for hate on them all the time and pretend that they're terrible, when they are not.

They're affraid their precious cards will go down in value, which they WILL. So they stay on forums all day long hating on Panini.... it's very sad honestly.

Panini is getting it done no matter what the haters say. And i'm not talking about people will legit reasons for not liking them, such as redemtpion probalems and all the legit reasons.... like I said above, i'm talking about the trouble makers who come here only to bad mouth Panini, and most of those trouble makers are my "fans" and they know I like Panini, so they love to bad mouth it..... again, it's a very sad life for them to have, but oh well. Funny at times of the sadness level
Wow that was a good laugh.

Especially the bit "some of the best cards this hobby has ever seen". Hahaha good one!

Panini have done some things very well - eg Private Signings, Silhouttes, but in general their card designs are bland/boring and look CHEAP.
They have had years of examples of attractive cards but put out things that look like they don't care. Even Gold Standard that people seem to adore could be a lot better, I'd much rather have a Topps laundry tag than one of their Bullion ones.

Panini are also not value for money. Or even close. Every box of theirs seems way overpriced. Especially as there seems to be minimal return for your money. Kids are happy to spend $44-68 on a box and get two crappy autos? Teach them the meaning of value - they can buy better autos for less individually, and buy rack packs/blasters or something similar for base cards.
I can't understand being willing to spend $2000 on a case of something where the likelihood is that the best card you pull can only return 15% or less of that.

I recently had to tweet Panini to get them to fulfil my redemption. The card was live, they just weren't doing anything about it. Admittedly I never had much to do with UD redemptions but I am still wary of Panini when they put out so many and seem to struggle to fulfil them.

Those are the biggest reasons I dislike Panini. Plus all the ass-kissing that goes on on their blog about new releases. Sickening.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:48 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I believe that they signed a four year exclusive at the 2009-10 season, so it should expire after the 2012-13 season.
So does that mean the other products might come back? I hope so.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:49 PM   #42 (permalink)
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So does that mean the other products might come back? I hope so.
I think that is up to the NBA if they are willing to give UD and Topps the license back. I sure hope so.
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Old 08-28-2012, 05:58 PM   #43 (permalink)
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I think that is up to the NBA if they are willing to give UD and Topps the license back. I sure hope so.
agreed, but also (as with most things in life), it comes down to the cheddah.

I know for sure, neither UD or Topps could outbid Panini if the NBA decided to stay with a sole licensee, however if they decided to grant multiple NBA licenses, it could possibly be a different story. Another problem is all the public controversies that have plagued Upper Deck in recent times (e.g. the NFL player list of like 50 players with corresponding amounts owed to each player). Stuff liek that will make it hard for UD to ever get another pro license...even if Richard McWilliams decided to put up his own personal $$ to bolster UD's bids.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:03 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Seriously, this is the most infuriating argument. Just because one company sucked and had problems, what bearing does that have on another company that sucks and has problems?

I would agree with all of ML's points, and add in terrible value (on almost every product they put out) and the laughable MAPP which most always drops like a lead weight, when the artificial price floor is lifted.
Fair enough. It's usually people begging for UD back that are usually making these kinds of statements.

But in reality, a lot of you are begging for things that are impossible. Attaining all on-card autos is impossible. Eliminating stickers is impossible. I'd like to see you tell a 20 year old millionaire to sign his cards/stickers on time.
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Old 08-28-2012, 06:09 PM   #45 (permalink)
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Wow that was a good laugh.

Especially the bit "some of the best cards this hobby has ever seen". Hahaha good one!

Panini have done some things very well - eg Private Signings, Silhouttes, but in general their card designs are bland/boring and look CHEAP.
They have had years of examples of attractive cards but put out things that look like they don't care. Even Gold Standard that people seem to adore could be a lot better, I'd much rather have a Topps laundry tag than one of their Bullion ones.

Panini are also not value for money. Or even close. Every box of theirs seems way overpriced. Especially as there seems to be minimal return for your money. Kids are happy to spend $44-68 on a box and get two crappy autos? Teach them the meaning of value - they can buy better autos for less individually, and buy rack packs/blasters or something similar for base cards.
I can't understand being willing to spend $2000 on a case of something where the likelihood is that the best card you pull can only return 15% or less of that.

I recently had to tweet Panini to get them to fulfil my redemption. The card was live, they just weren't doing anything about it. Admittedly I never had much to do with UD redemptions but I am still wary of Panini when they put out so many and seem to struggle to fulfil them.

Those are the biggest reasons I dislike Panini. Plus all the ass-kissing that goes on on their blog about new releases. Sickening.
Why couldn't everyone make points like this? Topps put out some amazing laundry tags and Panini's was good, but it wasn't near what Topps did. But the thing, people were complaining about the tags the used. It's not like they had a choice to use the tags with the team logo or plain tags. The tags that Adidas used didn't have the team logos on them. How could Panini help that? And I agree on your point about the box prices, some of the prices they have are unreal. I just wish people were either realistic in their expectations (i.e. every auto is on card and live).
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:17 PM   #46 (permalink)
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I'm a fan of NT.Some of their other products are kind of crappy though,
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Old 08-28-2012, 07:42 PM   #47 (permalink)
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No value for the money, that's the simple answer. 90% of all breaks end with disappointment, look at the breaks forums. Rarely does anyone pull anything big or even close to 1/4 the value they paid.

Bland designs, 90% of stickers in every single product, redemptions that don't get fulfilled unless you call or email (even if they have the card in stock for months).

But then again that's what happens when there is monopoly. Panini runs the show now, unfortunately.
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Old 08-28-2012, 08:16 PM   #48 (permalink)
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People hate Panini because most of the stuff is trash. Very slim chances of getting your money back when breaking, a ton of sticker autos, no MJ/LeBron, and bad designs. Basically everything what Tristan said above me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:17 PM   #49 (permalink)
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I have 2 huge problems with Panini (aside from the design and other things people have mentioned).

One is the way they phrase their COA on the back of GU's and Auto's (e.g. The enclosed swatches/auto are guaranteed by Panini). The statement is so vague that it makes all of their GU's & patches noncollectable to me because I'm not sure if they're guaranteeing the items to be game used, event-used, or found on the floor somewhere. While perhaps for the most part these items are game-used by the correct person, it's just a major turnoff for me and makes me not collect their stuff. Even with all of Upper Deck's screw ups (e.g. putting wrong person's GU in card, etc.) at least they put a legitimate COA statement in the back.

The second thing that bothers me is that for whatever reason, they don't send out the redemptions that have been live for months when I redeem it. Example, I see a card that's been live on ebay for months, I end up with the redemption for it, redeem it and 2-3 months go by with nothing happening. Only when I harass them about it, it gets sent.

I understand if the player hasn't signed yet and I have to wait, I'm fine with that. But when they have the card all along and it takes three months plus phone calls and emails to get the card out. That's a problem to me.
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Old 08-28-2012, 09:45 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I feel the same way about their memorabilia cards. They basically leave it up to your imagination what they are authenticating the memorabilia to be.

You are also right about them sitting on live redemptions. I purchased a redemption online because I knew the card was live. I redeemed it and waited a month before calling them. Then I got an attitude from one of their workers telling me to read the redemption card which states I have to wait 6-8 weeks. I asked if that applied to live cards as well and she said yes, but couldn't explain why. They are clearly just slow and lazy. I then waited four more months before calling again only to find out the card I had been waiting on was damaged. I wonder how long I would have waited before they would have contacted me if I hadn't called again. Years probably.

After all that, I then had to go round about with them trying to stiff me on a replacement.
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