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Old 08-29-2012, 09:55 AM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by drob50 View Post
You also have to take into account that NT is a 'current' product too! So there isn't the fear of them becoming rarer!
I understand that...how about 07-08 regular exquisite jersey base card that is over $180... I was using the two cards before to compare the design and the "attractiveness"... as for price we all know which product will win hands down regardless of how current it is...
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:03 AM   #77 (permalink)
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I understand that...how about 07-08 regular exquisite jersey base card that is over $180... I was using the two cards before to compare the design and the "attractiveness"... as for price we all know which product will win hands down regardless of how current it is...
Yeah, agreed!

But how much was Exquisite to buy when released?
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:17 AM   #78 (permalink)
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Yeah, agreed!

But how much was Exquisite to buy when released?
400... compare to $350 for NT?? this was awhile a go, but that is what I remembered....
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:22 AM   #79 (permalink)
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Here is the thing ...

Somebody bought out Panini a few years back , so they invested money with that.
Next is they secured exclusivity so monopoly is another negative .They needed to recoup their investments during their reign of exclusivity thus the $$$ that should have been spent to improve with the card technology for their products wasnt there.

Unlike with UD they strive hard to revolutionize the card industry ... look back at spx , ud powerdecks , shadowbox and the 2011 UD video cards and now the dimension cards etc etc ....

i think Panini tried it out by introduction the HRX im not sure if it did well ....
but for sure we already saw that panini changed a lot since their first year wherein most of their autograph cards are black on black design ... meaning black autos on dark background cards where the autographs dont stand out well.

but i think the real reason why people dont like panini a lot is they killed the market.
name anything great for 1990-2000 era and they mass produced it .

Logoman , shields , jerseys and patches,autographs . With UD when a card is UD Patch it really is a patch ... but for Panini when it says prime ... we often see them as plain jerseys which is kinda unfair


but not to take all on panini ... best they do is they honor expired redemptions ... answer customer service once and a while and try their best to comeup with reasonable replacements when needed rather than UD and Topps wherin if a redemption is expired its really deemed useless
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:22 AM   #80 (permalink)
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400... compare to $350 for NT?? this was awhile a go, but that is what I remembered....
Fair enough! I wasn't in the hobby for the whole exquisite phase, so I only know of the more recent prices!

I guess your point has been made! Lol
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:31 AM   #81 (permalink)
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I was merely debunking the statement from the previous poster about MJ autos. More Kobe auto the better, it is good for all people to enjoy...

But when you pay over $200 per box, you would think that the content will have some value... If they want to flood the market with kobe auto's for everyone's enjoyment (right..) then make the box $100... like leaf did with Pete Rose... guarantee an KOBE auto in every box...
Why drop the price? Their economists have determined pricing through market research. Their products are selling at a steady rate, so the price must be appropriate, if not underpriced.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:32 AM   #82 (permalink)
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I find this hard to believe. haha
I don't see it happening either. If it did I might buy packs. I don't buy Robinson autos for investment value. I buy them because I like them.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:34 AM   #83 (permalink)
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Yep. Panini is absolutely wonderful and no one has any reason to dislike them. We all just dislike them for something to complain about.
Well, I have a pretty good reason to be madd with Panini. So I broke some Black box elite basketball and hit one of my best redemptions ever. A 2010-11 Rookie Draft signatures triples version of John Wall, Balke Griffin, DeMarcus Cousins numbered to 10 or 15. Well, I contacted Panini about the card for about six to eights months and they finallly came around to telling me it would never be made and tried sugar coating the problem with replacements, that they never got back to me on. Ended up just getting a couple free packs. Topps and Upper Deck have always been real good on there redemptions, just saying. Its a solid reason, and people get bent when you pay 100-200 for 6-10 cards and recieve to redemptions and have to wait a year for money they just spent. Its not fair, at all.
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:40 AM   #84 (permalink)
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Why drop the price? Their economists have determined pricing through market research. Their products are selling at a steady rate, so the price must be appropriate, if not underpriced.
2 things...

1. I was commenting on the previous poster saying more kobe auto the better for the collector... I was giving a comparison to what leaf did with Pete Rose's autograph.. where they have decrease the MSRP so "everyone" can own a Pete Rose autograph... If that was Panini's main objective (which I seriously doubt) to put 2000 kobe autos in GS so "everyone" can have one, then drop the price and give the young collectors a chance to spend their allowance money to get a kobe auto.

2. The market did determined the pricing on GS...and most Panini products...as more than one members have already said, the MAPP does not hold...90% of their product drop in price in the secondary market... my LCS owners are scared to buy Panini products because they end up losing money... how is that helping the hobby?? If they have economist doing the pricing (again, I seriously doubt) they should all be fired!!! with the product managers!!!
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Old 08-29-2012, 11:00 AM   #85 (permalink)
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Well, I have a pretty good reason to be madd with Panini. So I broke some Black box elite basketball and hit one of my best redemptions ever. A 2010-11 Rookie Draft signatures triples version of John Wall, Balke Griffin, DeMarcus Cousins numbered to 10 or 15. Well, I contacted Panini about the card for about six to eights months and they finallly came around to telling me it would never be made and tried sugar coating the problem with replacements, that they never got back to me on. Ended up just getting a couple free packs. Topps and Upper Deck have always been real good on there redemptions, just saying. Its a solid reason, and people get bent when you pay 100-200 for 6-10 cards and recieve to redemptions and have to wait a year for money they just spent. Its not fair, at all.
you got a couple packs as a replacement for a blake,wall, cousins auto?
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #86 (permalink)
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Drool gallery.....
Self-fellating.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:13 PM   #87 (permalink)
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1. They put too many sticker autos, even if in their highest end product: NT. Sticker auto should not in highend at all. (UD use sticker auto in Exquisite too: such as some Pippen Exquisite Auto but you rarely see they do this)

2. Some of their cards are nice: NT RPA, Silhouette but mostly they have terrible designs. (Even the NT base cards are so plain)

3. Their sticker autos look terrible. Didn't match well with the card. The holograms on their sticker auto are too obvious to notice and it take away the beauty of the card. (Some UD and Topp use auto stickers but they mostly look a lot superior) The place where they put stickers on is also terrible. (Look at the Topp Echelon where they made a little frame for sticker auto)

4. No MJ and Lebron.

5. The price is too high.

6. I waited 6 months for my card to arrive after I redeemed the card that was already live on eBay for a couple months at the time I redeemed.

7. I waited for 1 years+ for another card. They rarely give me the update and didn't answer many of my emails and messages. I have to wait for a few months and after keep sending the same messages to them. (Somebody said they relocated their company at that time but is that the excuse for the poor customer service?)
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Shouldn't the question be 'How do people NOT hate Panini'?
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #89 (permalink)
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As far as value in a box?? When I got back into collecting (09/10) after a 10 + break, I started busting 09/10 Upper Deck, being a decent starter box for $50 a piece. This release has hot boxes falling 1 in 4, so 3 per case. I opened 10 boxes in total and didn't get 1 hot box! I know about averages and I am by no means complaining about the way they were packed out, more just about how bad my luck was. I even saw someone buy 2 boxes in a row after I had just opened one, and BOTH of theirs were hot boxes.

Out of the 10 boxes I opened, I never pulled any SP autos from the Sig Collection set either! Just the scrubs!

So that goes to show that other brands offer little or no value for money on boxes sometimes too!
I saw this post and had a question. You said you busted 10 boxes of this. Why didn't you bust a case with 12 boxes? I think if you had busted a case you would have got 3 hot boxes in your case. If you just picked out 10 random boxes then it was just the luck of the draw. I am not trying to defend UD but their case odds say 3 hot boxes per case.
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Old 08-29-2012, 12:35 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Shouldn't the question be 'How do people NOT hate Panini'?
love that......I can't stand Pannini like 90% of the people on this thread (they do make some ok football products)
So this is what I do:

when a new Panini product comes out, I usually wait a few months for it to come down----which it ALWAYS DOES because it does not hold value, then I buy singles if I like the look of the cards. I'm sick of getting reemed on box breaks from this company and have not broken any Panini basketball since 09/10'
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:09 PM   #91 (permalink)
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2 things...

1. I was commenting on the previous poster saying more kobe auto the better for the collector... I was giving a comparison to what leaf did with Pete Rose's autograph.. where they have decrease the MSRP so "everyone" can own a Pete Rose autograph... If that was Panini's main objective (which I seriously doubt) to put 2000 kobe autos in GS so "everyone" can have one, then drop the price and give the young collectors a chance to spend their allowance money to get a kobe auto.

2. The market did determined the pricing on GS...and most Panini products...as more than one members have already said, the MAPP does not hold...90% of their product drop in price in the secondary market... my LCS owners are scared to buy Panini products because they end up losing money... how is that helping the hobby?? If they have economist doing the pricing (again, I seriously doubt) they should all be fired!!! with the product managers!!!
I don't see why people think Panini would drop their initial prices when they release a product. They are not a nonprofit, they are trying to get the most out of their products and know people will buy their products no matter what. Why charge $150 at Gold Standard's release, when they could still sell at $200? I am not a fan of Panini's products by any means, but from a business standpoint they cornered the market successfully.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:28 PM   #92 (permalink)
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I don't see why people think Panini would drop their initial prices when they release a product. They are not a nonprofit, they are trying to get the most out of their products and know people will buy their products no matter what. Why charge $150 at Gold Standard's release, when they could still sell at $200? I am not a fan of Panini's products by any means, but from a business standpoint they cornered the market successfully.
Exactly. I mean Panini should just add another jersey card or auto and raise the price to $250. They might as well. People would probably still buy.
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:37 PM   #93 (permalink)
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I don't see why people think Panini would drop their initial prices when they release a product. They are not a nonprofit, they are trying to get the most out of their products and know people will buy their products no matter what. Why charge $150 at Gold Standard's release, when they could still sell at $200? I am not a fan of Panini's products by any means, but from a business standpoint they cornered the market successfully.
I think you missed my point. Drob said Panini is doing the collection world a whole lot of good by mass producing Kobe Auto cards... Again, I am not saying that is the wrong thing to do...but if that was Panini's agenda to please the hobby world, then drop the price so the younger collectors can afford to buy them... that is all I am saying...

I know they are in the business to make money, so they are not truely looking out for the collecting world as other might suggest... Their agenda is to make MONEY!!!! That is why they implemented MAPP...again they say is to help the brick and mortar lcs...BS!!!!
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Old 08-29-2012, 02:46 PM   #94 (permalink)
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I think you missed my point. Drob said Panini is doing the collection world a whole lot of good by mass producing Kobe Auto cards... Again, I am not saying that is the wrong thing to do...but if that was Panini's agenda to please the hobby world, then drop the price so the younger collectors can afford to buy them... that is all I am saying...

I know they are in the business to make money, so they are not truely looking out for the collecting world as other might suggest... Their agenda is to make MONEY!!!! That is why they implemented MAPP...again they say is to help the brick and mortar lcs...BS!!!!
I'm not a fan of any lcs so I really don't care about that. All the ones around me have stuff priced three times market value for singles and 50% more for boxes. When I could get the same cards for a better price on eBay or the same boxes on Blowout for cheaper, I'm not going to overpay to "support" a lcs.
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Old 08-29-2012, 03:26 PM   #95 (permalink)
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I'm not a fan of any lcs so I really don't care about that. All the ones around me have stuff priced three times market value for singles and 50% more for boxes. When I could get the same cards for a better price on eBay or the same boxes on Blowout for cheaper, I'm not going to overpay to "support" a lcs.
I feel for you man...in the area where I live, I have 2 lcs that have great prices... constantly below all advertised prices by internet vendors...so in my case, I want to support them...

Back to Panini's plan of MAPP so the internet vendor doesn't under sell the LCS.. but they tell the LCS to sell it at the same price... so how is that helping them??

Either way, I only buy Panini product if my LCS guys ask me to... and they have been lowering their order on Panini Bk products which is great for me as I don't need to blow up my bank account like I did back in the UD days...
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Old 08-29-2012, 08:55 PM   #96 (permalink)
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How can you even make that comparison?? Panini puts out close to 2000 kobe autos in 10-11 Gold Standard... that is ONE product!!!! when have you seen 2000 lebron or MJ autos in one product?? or combined...!!! UD probably doesn't even put out 2000 MJ autos in one season...

WAKE UP!!!!
Seriously? Because LeBron or MJ were never in SP Signature and had base autos that weren't numbered. You don't know how many autos they put out there. They also weren't in any other subset right? I'm pretty sure they had multiple autos in UC, UD Black, SPA,SP Sig. You know how many MJ and LeBron Ultimate Collection Autos I have seen over the years? I would bet money that they put out more than 2000 MJ autos in one season. If you don't believe that then you need to wake up.
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Old 08-29-2012, 09:53 PM   #97 (permalink)
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Seriously? Because LeBron or MJ were never in SP Signature and had base autos that weren't numbered. You don't know how many autos they put out there. They also weren't in any other subset right? I'm pretty sure they had multiple autos in UC, UD Black, SPA,SP Sig. You know how many MJ and LeBron Ultimate Collection Autos I have seen over the years? I would bet money that they put out more than 2000 MJ autos in one season. If you don't believe that then you need to wake up.
No matter how many jordan autos were made, fact is everyone wants one.

Also every single week someone is looking for one.

There can never be enough autos of the GOAT. Period
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Old 08-29-2012, 10:11 PM   #98 (permalink)
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I think every company has its good and bad points. Upper Deck has some great designs, but they also reuse their designs and some more than once. They get props for the Retro product but it has been delayed and is based on another company's design that they bought out. Topps would recycle designs for multiple sports in the same year, they are the only company I've seen a jersey redemption card, and they sold out their Chrome line to rush them into the 09-10 set. Panini did a great thing in their first year with the Same Day signatures and then never did them again?, they don't have any continuity in products and didn't have any rookies last year and could have been proactive. They've all used stickers (some bad, some upside down), have a ton of jerseys to water down the concept and milked their exclusives.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:30 AM   #99 (permalink)
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I don't have a problem with Panini's designs necessarily, some look cool, like the NTs Rookie auto patches that came out not long ago for football. I just don't like the fact that they are pumping way, way too much stuff out at a rapid pace. Deal in reality here, pulling an auto of Kobe out of a Panini product is really no big deal at all, they whored him out lol. Where back in the day pulling an auto of him out of a UD product was like wow. Panini hurts the hobby in that instance. Panini has just made it way too easy to pull some of the type of cards that were much harder to pull out of UD products. The more something is made, and the more easier the availability is of them, the more it will hurt the value of those cards in the long run.



I still say who cares, if you like Panini and collect it cool man, if you like UD and only collect UD, cool man *shrugs shoulders*

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Old 08-30-2012, 08:10 AM   #100 (permalink)
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In respect to value coming out of the product...

I did a 4 case break of Panini 12-13 Hoops (Hobby version), started opening packs on Aug 17th, started selling everything from the break as I opened. Sold 50+ complete base sets, huge lots, 160 auto's, tons of parallels most sold in lot form, insert sets, everything...

So far the gross value coming out of those sales is $5,555.99. The MAPP cost of 4 cases is $5,440.00. And I still have dozens of insert sets to sell and two master sets.

The only big hits I pulled were: Kyrie Irving Rookie Impact Auto, Anthony Davis Draft Night Auto, Kevin Durant SP Card. (I only pulled 1x Kyrie Irving and 1x Anthony Davis auto)

Keep in mind gross value is the total price paid by the buyers for the items (does not include shipping charges). This gross value does not include fees the seller must pay.

The statements saying that value coming out of the product is 20-30% of cost, well, that is wrong. In time, card values do decrease, and it's unlikely case breaks in the future will result in value 100%+ of MAPP price. But the fact remains that many buyers in the market today want Panini's NBA products and pay top dollar for them when a product first releases.

Interestingly, most of my sales were to USA buyers. That is a shift. Most of the time, it's overseas buyers who pay top dollar for NBA cards. But with this double 2011 & 2012 RC class, I'm seeing a lot more interest from USA buyers.
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