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Old 08-30-2012, 08:10 AM   #101 (permalink)
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i think a lot of points have been brought up and i agree that some of it is on the collectors.

i mean i don't like panini (designs, overproduction, cheap looks, whatever) and I refuse to by a panini product. i would rather buy old upper deck products.

my question to those who also don't like panini but then repeatedly buy the new products. why do that?

if its really about collecting and you want the new rcs i could understand buying singles but if you are going to call panini crap then why support them by buying wax?
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:16 AM   #102 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by alexlazarevich View Post
In respect to value coming out of the product...

I did a 4 case break of Panini 12-13 Hoops (Hobby version), started opening packs on Aug 17th, started selling everything from the break as I opened. Sold 50+ complete base sets, huge lots, 160 auto's, tons of parallels most sold in lot form, insert sets, everything...

So far the gross value coming out of those sales is $5,555.99. The MAPP cost of 4 cases is $5,440.00. And I still have dozens of insert sets to sell and two master sets.

The only big hits I pulled were: Kyrie Irving Rookie Impact Auto, Anthony Davis Draft Night Auto, Kevin Durant SP Card. (I only pulled 1x Kyrie Irving and 1x Anthony Davis auto)

Keep in mind gross value is the total price paid by the buyers for the items (does not include shipping charges). This gross value does not include fees the seller must pay.

The statements saying that value coming out of the product is 20-30% of cost, well, that is wrong. In time, card values do decrease, and it's unlikely case breaks in the future will result in value 100%+ of MAPP price. But the fact remains that many buyers in the market today want Panini's NBA products and pay top dollar for them when a product first releases.

Interestingly, most of my sales were to USA buyers. That is a shift. Most of the time, it's overseas buyers who pay top dollar for NBA cards. But with this double 2011 & 2012 RC class, I'm seeing a lot more interest from USA buyers.
quick question for you.

so taking shipping, and fees out it seems that you will be losing money. my question is why are you buying cases and then selling this product?

I'm asking cause you stated that you are selling everything, thus it doesn't seem like you are breaking these cases as a collector and selling whats left. It seems like you are breaking and selling as a business (maybe thats a wrong assumption?). So if for business it seems as if you are going to lose money.

Correct me if I'm wrong I'm just trying to understand what your thinking is and if you do this often I am assuming you have to come out in positive right?
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Old 08-30-2012, 08:30 AM   #103 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
quick question for you.

so taking shipping, and fees out it seems that you will be losing money. my question is why are you buying cases and then selling this product?

I'm asking cause you stated that you are selling everything, thus it doesn't seem like you are breaking these cases as a collector and selling whats left. It seems like you are breaking and selling as a business (maybe thats a wrong assumption?). So if for business it seems as if you are going to lose money.

Correct me if I'm wrong I'm just trying to understand what your thinking is and if you do this often I am assuming you have to come out in positive right?
You are correct, this is a business for me. I am not a collector like most of you. I was a collector for 25 years before I sold my first card in 2010. So I know what it's like to be a buyer.

I am registered as a Panini case breaker, I also bust Topps and Leaf. I have a sole proprietorship internet retail business registered in the State of Illinois.

I never said I pay MAPP prices. I would not be doing this if I wasn't able to at least make a small profit However, this is a side business for me. I have a stable full time job with benefits. Cards is just a side business I run out of my home. I dream of being successful enough to open a card shop and do this full time. But with card profits being so razor thin, it is a big risk, especially since I already have a good full time job.
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:27 AM   #104 (permalink)
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You are correct, this is a business for me. I am not a collector like most of you. I was a collector for 25 years before I sold my first card in 2010. So I know what it's like to be a buyer.

I am registered as a Panini case breaker, I also bust Topps and Leaf. I have a sole proprietorship internet retail business registered in the State of Illinois.

I never said I pay MAPP prices. I would not be doing this if I wasn't able to at least make a small profit However, this is a side business for me. I have a stable full time job with benefits. Cards is just a side business I run out of my home. I dream of being successful enough to open a card shop and do this full time. But with card profits being so razor thin, it is a big risk, especially since I already have a good full time job.

okay this makes more sense haha.

can you ballpark about how much (percentage wise) you have to pay of MAPP pricing?

also how do you become a 'case breaker' sorry for all the questions just never heard about it really and interested.
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Old 08-30-2012, 09:50 AM   #105 (permalink)
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okay this makes more sense haha.

can you ballpark about how much (percentage wise) you have to pay of MAPP pricing?

also how do you become a 'case breaker' sorry for all the questions just never heard about it really and interested.
I won't discuss that kind of information on the Blowout Forums.

Blowout is one of the best places to buy boxes/cases, they have amazing products, fast shipping, great customer service, I myself have pulled 1/1 logoman RC auto's from cases I bought from Blowout. And this forum provides a great place for collectors.

The only reason I posted in here was to discuss the *gross value* coming out of the 4 Panini's 2012-13 Hoops Hobby cases that I opened. Everyone pays different prices at different times. My sales are wide open to the public. (those sales on eBay anyway) But my costs are not.
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Old 08-30-2012, 10:12 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Never mind.
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Old 08-30-2012, 11:54 AM   #107 (permalink)
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I think they are improving. They still lack a lot of design and I hate single color jersey swatches in the shape of a circle in a $200+ product. But they are slowly improving. What annoys me the most is their redemption cards. Not the fact they are in boxes, but how they are written. Just card number set and sub set. I have to look everything up and try to interpret what the numbering will be from a sell sheet that is probably outdated. I like how upper deck spells it all out on the card.
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Old 08-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #108 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexlazarevich View Post
In respect to value coming out of the product...

I did a 4 case break of Panini 12-13 Hoops (Hobby version), started opening packs on Aug 17th, started selling everything from the break as I opened. Sold 50+ complete base sets, huge lots, 160 auto's, tons of parallels most sold in lot form, insert sets, everything...

So far the gross value coming out of those sales is $5,555.99. The MAPP cost of 4 cases is $5,440.00. And I still have dozens of insert sets to sell and two master sets.

The only big hits I pulled were: Kyrie Irving Rookie Impact Auto, Anthony Davis Draft Night Auto, Kevin Durant SP Card. (I only pulled 1x Kyrie Irving and 1x Anthony Davis auto)

Keep in mind gross value is the total price paid by the buyers for the items (does not include shipping charges). This gross value does not include fees the seller must pay.

The statements saying that value coming out of the product is 20-30% of cost, well, that is wrong. In time, card values do decrease, and it's unlikely case breaks in the future will result in value 100%+ of MAPP price. But the fact remains that many buyers in the market today want Panini's NBA products and pay top dollar for them when a product first releases.

Interestingly, most of my sales were to USA buyers. That is a shift. Most of the time, it's overseas buyers who pay top dollar for NBA cards. But with this double 2011 & 2012 RC class, I'm seeing a lot more interest from USA buyers.
This is a rare case that will NOT happen after the prodcut has been out even for a month. The sets you sell are pretty much worthless soon after the products release.

For those that don't realize, you are still showing a pretty good loss after ebay fees and shipping and this is the BEST CASE SCENARIO right after a product has been released. A few weeks after a products release and the loss is even greater.

No value.
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Old 08-30-2012, 05:39 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Frankp2311 View Post
I think they are improving. They still lack a lot of design and I hate single color jersey swatches in the shape of a circle in a $200+ product. But they are slowly improving. What annoys me the most is their redemption cards. Not the fact they are in boxes, but how they are written. Just card number set and sub set. I have to look everything up and try to interpret what the numbering will be from a sell sheet that is probably outdated. I like how upper deck spells it all out on the card.
They changed that for this year - they now say the player name which is a big improvement.


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This is a rare case that will NOT happen after the prodcut has been out even for a month. The sets you sell are pretty much worthless soon after the products release.

For those that don't realize, you are still showing a pretty good loss after ebay fees and shipping and this is the BEST CASE SCENARIO right after a product has been released. A few weeks after a products release and the loss is even greater.

No value.
On top of that, nobody else behaves that way... people buy a box or case to pull things, not sell EVERYTHING. And what's the point in doing that?
If anybody other than Alex had bought a case with the intention of selling everything, they would almost certainly make a substantial loss.
That said, cases shouldn't guarantee a return higher than what you paid for it, there just should be a chance of it...
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:02 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Upper deck will never get back there license . Panini has durant annd Kobe and all the young stars to exclusive deals so ud stuff will never be that good now .
What good Is a exquisite set with no great players in it
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Old 08-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #111 (permalink)
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On top of that, nobody else behaves that way... people buy a box or case to pull things, not sell EVERYTHING. And what's the point in doing that?
If anybody other than Alex had bought a case with the intention of selling everything, they would almost certainly make a substantial loss.
That said, cases shouldn't guarantee a return higher than what you paid for it, there just should be a chance of it...
100% agree with this.

When looking around it seems that a lot of Panini products the case sell for 800+ dollars and the best card you can pull is a kobe auto that can sell for like $150.

At least with older upper deck you had a chance to pull a card that would give you a return of what you paid. Even if that chance is slim I think that chance needs to be there.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:23 AM   #112 (permalink)
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about 80% of panini products look cheap and too many sticker autos and too many redemptions!
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:36 AM   #113 (permalink)
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What good Is a exquisite set with no great players in it
UD has Jordan and Lebron... The 2 best.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:41 AM   #114 (permalink)
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UD has Jordan and Lebron... The 2 best.
Ha. I would agree with the ONE best retired player....and then the other guy that has a long way to go.

It sucks that Panini has the current active best.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:46 AM   #115 (permalink)
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UD has Jordan and Lebron... The 2 best.
You got that right, Rick!
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:47 AM   #116 (permalink)
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Ha. I would agree with the ONE best retired player....and then the other guy that has a long way to go.

It sucks that Panini has the current active best.


Panini is the best, that's why! Don't be mad...
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:51 AM   #117 (permalink)
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Ha. I would agree with the ONE best retired player....and then the other guy that has a long way to go.

It sucks that Panini has the current active best.
Haha... Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean the two best players ever. I know better than that (Lebron is top 15). They are, though, the two highest priced autographs that you can get. That's what I was referring to. Yes, you could argue that Kobe sells higher than Lebron currently but it's hard to judge since Lebron has 0 Miami Heat autographs.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:53 AM   #118 (permalink)
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People complain about them putting out too many Kobe autos, yet nobody says anything about UD pumping out MJ and Bron autos. Does it make it ok because its MJ? Nobody seems to mention that almost every Kobe auto is on card. UD had a ton of MJ sticker autos, yet nobody mentions that?
best post of the thread mate. there are plenty of problems with panini. but it is so funny how the collectors who have invested their savings in UD never comment on the ENDLESS cheaply-made and crappy-looking sticker autos of mj and lebron that have been pumped out (and continue to be dumped on the market) by upper deck. the ud hype machine is running strong on BO.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:57 AM   #119 (permalink)
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UD has Jordan and Lebron... The 2 best.
lebron over kobe? come on mate, put down the ud kool-aid. you're drunk
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:01 AM   #120 (permalink)
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best post of the thread mate. there are plenty of problems with panini. but it is so funny how the collectors who have invested their savings in UD never comment on the ENDLESS cheaply-made and crappy-looking sticker autos of mj and lebron that have been pumped out (and continue to be dumped on the market) by upper deck. the ud hype machine is running strong on BO.
Can you tell me when one single UD product pumped out close to 2000 MJ or Lebron autos?? You can't!!! But we all know that there is about 2000 kobe autos produced in 10-11 gold standard... please get your fact straight...

Year in and year out, there are more kobe autos produced by Panini then UD of Lebron and MJ....

Best post of the thread my arse...!!!
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:20 AM   #121 (permalink)
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UD has Jordan and Lebron... The 2 best.
If I were collecting lebron I hope panini keeps its exclusive deal . It would make the value of ud autos go up .

Look at football ,baseball ,hockey to many products waters crap down
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Old 08-31-2012, 11:23 AM   #122 (permalink)
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Haha... Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean the two best players ever. I know better than that (Lebron is top 15). They are, though, the two highest priced autographs that you can get. That's what I was referring to. Yes, you could argue that Kobe sells higher than Lebron currently but it's hard to judge since Lebron has 0 Miami Heat autographs.
Lebron is no where near Kobe status in collecting
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:04 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Lebron is no where near Kobe status in collecting
yet the most expensive lebron rc is still 2x (20x?) that of Kobes.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:03 PM   #124 (permalink)
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Switch the years . If Kobe rookie was in 03-04 my god what would that sell for
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:19 PM   #125 (permalink)
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Can you tell me when one single UD product pumped out close to 2000 MJ or Lebron autos?? You can't!!! But we all know that there is about 2000 kobe autos produced in 10-11 gold standard... please get your fact straight...

Year in and year out, there are more kobe autos produced by Panini then UD of Lebron and MJ....

Best post of the thread my arse...!!!
mate, i'm sorry to have upset you so much. i'm sure your mj and lebron stickers are very nice. please don't be too mad. when you calm down, could you please tell me what fact i got wrong?
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