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Old 09-08-2012, 01:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default What is so special with PMG ?

Please do not hate me
I am pretty "old school" in terms of collecting (starting this hobby in early 90s)
Back then RC and Auto card (obviously) held premium value, understandably.
Certain Parallel (remember Finest refractor? then Chrome refractor) were popular but the price never exceed $1000, even for Jordan. Kobe refractor - I can understand, that is his RC refractor, so BV of $1900 makes sense.

PMG? to me it s just a nice looking card that are numbered. (Again I left the hobby in the 1997... maybe I missed something)
Nowadays, Almost ALL Base card are numbered (since early 2000s I believe), especially the "higher end" brand.

Why would someone pay $10,000 for Jordan card numbered to #10 or #150 ?
It doesnt have any auto or Jersey/Patch ....

Please help explain this to me and others...
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:47 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I remember a time when beanie babies became popular, all the old ones skyrocketed in price (sales of 5k+ for the rarest). Upon seeing the madness, TY (beanie babies manufacturer) started increasing their releases. They did "retro" releases, limited edition releases and people would wait in line for hours at hallmark so they could buy and flip these little sacks of beans on eBay. Then the market became flooded and people realized their folly, grew out of the fad and saw the beanie babies for what they were. A Jordan PMG from the 90s is worth 10k, so a Jordan PMG re release /10 MUST be worth at least that, never mind that you can now pull PMGs at a one per box rate and buy 30 Jordan autos for the price of that one card. PMGs will definitely be valuable in the future
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Old 09-08-2012, 01:50 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Original PMGs were one of the first cards to have serial numbers on the card.
With almost every card being serial numbered these days and many high end collectors going after Exquisites for last few years, The Market needed something new and the product that was being pushed out was not all that great. So few high end MJ collectors purchased up all the numbered MJ's they could find for little while and few years back they have decided to manipulate the Market with the these MJ inserts.
With unconfirmed record breaking sales happening every so often everyone started to expect their inserts to pull in close to the record breaking sale. PMGs were one of the first to start out that trend in high dollars and it has been the trendsetter for the 90's insert craze. Thanks to the Market manipulators and thanks to the suckers [Like my self] who purchased the card at ridiculous price for non rc,non game used, non auto etc. PMGs have become somewhat of Iconic 90's inserts. I'm sure you'll get two sides of this post with one saying 'It's a beauty and is truly is an iconic 90's insert card' and other being 'It's a complete waste of money and buy something else with that type of money' but as mentioned on this forum many times. It's whatever you are willing to pay for the card you like. I paid premium for the MJ and Kobe PMGs and I'm fine with it. The original PMGs of MJ or Kobe doesn't show up that often and when they do they are purchased right after.
I think they are more rarer than some of the Exquisites of the late and I think they are beautiful looking cards. Once again these are just my humble opinions.

Last edited by Haiku; 09-08-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Its generally is just that persons taste in what they want to buy, love the look of the parallels from the 90's but I probably wouldn't pay what they are going for now. Just my opinion. This new retro stuff is popular now but its still not the original.
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:04 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
Original PMGs were one of the first cards to have serial numbers on the card.
With almost every card being serial numbered these days and many high end collectors going after Exquisites for last few years, The Market needed something new and the product that was being pushed out was not all that great. So few high end MJ collectors purchased up all the numbered MJ's they could find for little while and few years back they have decided to manipulate the Market with the these MJ inserts.
With unconfirmed record breaking sales happening every so often everyone started to expect their inserts to pull in close to the record breaking sale. PMGs were one of the first to start out that trend in high dollars and it has been the trendsetter for the 90's insert craze. Thanks to the Market manipulators and thanks to the suckers [Like my self] who purchased the card at ridiculous price for non rc,non game used, non auto etc. PMGs have become somewhat of Iconic 90's inserts. I'm sure you'll get two sides of this post with one saying 'It's a beauty and is truly is an iconic 90's insert card' and other being 'It's a complete waste of money and buy something else with that type of money' but as mentioned on this forum many times. It's whatever you are willing to pay for the card you like. I paid premium for the MJ and Kobe PMGs and I'm fine with it. The original PMGs of MJ or Kobe doesn't show up that often and when they do they are purchased right after.
I think they are more rarer than some of the Exquisites of the late and I think they are beautiful looking cards. Once again these are just my humble opinions.
Awesome analysis/opinion.

If I have $10,000, I would buy, either Lebron Exquisite RC or Graded Autographed Jordan Fleer RC
I dont think there is any other card in this hobby that is worth 10k.
Just my 2 cents
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:20 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Remember POGS from the 90's?
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Old 09-08-2012, 02:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Remember POGS from the 90's?
YES! I found my old pog slammer collection (most of them brass and thick metal, some with $15 price stickers on the bottom still) and listed them on ebay a couple weeks ago...most in lots of 3 or more.

Out of maybe 15 auctions, 2 sold with 1 bid @99cts each...woo hoo!! They all started at 99cts with $1 shipping.

lol.
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Nostalgia, nothing else
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #9 (permalink)
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HYPE! HYPE!
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #10 (permalink)
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yea, speaking of hype

2012 Upper Deck Fleer Retro Michael Jordan Blue Precious Metal Gems 23/50 Pmg | eBay
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Old 09-08-2012, 04:56 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitch123 View Post
I remember a time when beanie babies became popular, all the old ones skyrocketed in price (sales of 5k+ for the rarest). Upon seeing the madness, TY (beanie babies manufacturer) started increasing their releases. They did "retro" releases, limited edition releases and people would wait in line for hours at hallmark so they could buy and flip these little sacks of beans on eBay. Then the market became flooded and people realized their folly, grew out of the fad and saw the beanie babies for what they were. A Jordan PMG from the 90s is worth 10k, so a Jordan PMG re release /10 MUST be worth at least that, never mind that you can now pull PMGs at a one per box rate and buy 30 Jordan autos for the price of that one card. PMGs will definitely be valuable in the future
Interesting comparison.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so someone might have already made the following analogy, which is similar to yours...

I believe Star Wars toys from the early 1980s are worth a fortune. When Star Wars films were made again in the late 1990s, lots of people bought the toys in the hope that they would be worth a fortune too. Never happened though. The modern toys never increased in value (as far as I'm aware - I may be wrong though).

I would imagine the same thing would happen with these modern PMGs. The hype seems unsustainable.

Having said that, the cards are beautiful and rare Jordan inserts will always be worth a lot.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Interesting comparison.

I haven't read the whole thread yet, so someone might have already made the following analogy, which is similar to yours...

I believe Star Wars toys from the early 1980s are worth a fortune. When Star Wars films were made again in the late 1990s, lots of people bought the toys in the hope that they would be worth a fortune too. Never happened though. The modern toys never increased in value (as far as I'm aware - I may be wrong though).

I would imagine the same thing would happen with these modern PMGs. The hype seems unsustainable.

Having said that, the cards are beautiful and rare Jordan inserts will always be worth a lot.
Look at it like this

Mj Sneakers
some of his retros selll more then originals depending on year colors ect but people still buy them
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Look at it like this

Mj Sneakers
some of his retros selll more then originals depending on year colors ect but people still buy them
True. That's an excellent comparison.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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When the original isnt available, people will settle for the copies.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:44 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I bought three boxes and will sit on them. Why? I don't like college uni's and I am not a fan of PMGs. The people buying these boxes are only trying to make a quick buck, most are not collecting in interest of the hobby. Look at Paul and Free Flow, they are selling to capitalize on the current market. Nothing wrong with that. It gives them money to purchase PC cards.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I bought three boxes and will sit on them. Why? I don't like college uni's and I am not a fan of PMGs. The people buying these boxes are only trying to make a quick buck, most are not collecting in interest of the hobby. Look at Paul and Free Flow, they are selling to capitalize on the current market. Nothing wrong with that. It gives them money to purchase PC cards.
What will you gain by sitting on your boxes? Are you hoping they will go up in value so that you can re-sell the boxes?

If so, surely that's not much different to those people opening the boxes in the hope of making a quick profit?

(By the way, I'm sure many of the people opening the boxes are genuinely happy to keep the contents - after all, this is an unusual product and something a bit different to Panini's releases)
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:34 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by WillC View Post
What will you gain by sitting on your boxes? Are you hoping they will go up in value so that you can re-sell the boxes?

If so, surely that's not much different to those people opening the boxes in the hope of making a quick profit?

(By the way, I'm sure many of the people opening the boxes are genuinely happy to keep the contents - after all, this is an unusual product and something a bit different to Panini's releases)
No, I purchased the boxes a long time ago for $150 during the initial pre-sale. I like having boxes to bust when I am in the mood to bust them. If the price goes up before I break them then I may consider selling, but I like having the option.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Seems like they're for sure releasing Fleer Retro next year again. I'd hope to god they use the 98-99 pmg designs this time around, and not the 97-98 again.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The Green PMGs will be as rare as the old ones - both numbered to 10. The star wars analogy doesn't work. And /50 is less than #/90...

People collect what they like, there's no rhyme or reason to it...
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:40 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Maybe I'm off with the Star Wars analogy (I actually hope I am, since I hate sci-fi films!).

But my point was that its difficult to recreate something and for it to be as special as it was the first time around. Sequels are rarely as good as the originals Who knows though. There's no doubting these cards look great.
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Old 09-08-2012, 06:43 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Agreed. .
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Old 09-08-2012, 07:38 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Never trust a man who collected pogs................ just saying.

As far as the PMG's, I think they're loved by the true collectors for nostalgia. I saw many of them in person at the 2012 National Convention, and IMO they suck! Ugly as hell haha but sometimes all that matters is nostalgia for some. Then of course you have the people who take advantage of that, and the shillers and pumpers are born...

That's why I love these new PMG's, because I don't think these shillers can afford them to pump and flip... I think these PMG have a new fresh start and don't have all the negativity associated with them. I don't see a person paying $20,000.00 for one of the new PMG's to flip it later... I think true collectors are buying these.

Maybe the shillers helped after all.............. but NOT for their 90's PMG's, because people will never believe the BS that's been going on for all these years. I personally couldn't care less for the 90's PMG's, they're totally ruined them imo. I'd rather stick with something that has a new start, and more important, the shillers can't afford these. After all, they're shilling and pumping for a reason!

Finally a product that sells well all on it's own!!!!!
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nera20 View Post
Its generally is just that persons taste in what they want to buy, love the look of the parallels from the 90's but I probably wouldn't pay what they are going for now. Just my opinion. This new retro stuff is popular now but its still not the original.

This............Except no probably about it for me lol.
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Old 09-08-2012, 08:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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yea, when the dust settles these college PMG's will sell for a fraction of the originals. the greens have the best chance of retaining value.

however, I am also curious whether the flooding of the market with PMG's will have a negative effect on the originals and dilute their value to a degree...I guess we will see. especially as they look almost identical (well, UD did a shoddy job, but they still resemble the originals almost identically...UD didn't do anything to distinguish the new design)...this may negatively influence newer collectors as they come to the market now and in the future...just a thought.
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Old 09-09-2012, 04:12 AM   #25 (permalink)
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