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Old 10-04-2012, 05:29 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by yaoming View Post
OJ.... this is an outstanding summary of what has been happening for years, probably, and unfortunately, in our hobby
I have been in and out of the hobby , and this is what I suspected recently.
You just summarized it so well
There are some "big time" sellers out there on ebay, and who knows, they might actually know each others, brothers, friends, etc, and manipulate this price

I believed, Gio (Sportitups) mentioned the same thing about the Finest refractor gold embossed.

How do we really know?

Personally, I prefer owning a card that is # 99 or 250 (eg Lebron ultimate RC) or even 500 (eg. Lebron SPA RC)
at least, you can find out how much other cards are selling for
because they will be a lot of them
We dont know. But we can still err on the side of caution. Also by using simple logic. Logic that usually goes out the window with unbelievable sales. For example ont he 97 finest MJ die cut refractor. 2 auctions sitting with BGS 9.5 grades and one listed after the first one sells for $18.5k? Yet another sits on BIN for 14k and no one touches it. To make matters worse, there are atleast 5 offers over 14k for the one that just sold yet none of those guys want to offer on the one sitting at $14k? Or the fact that the card listed for 12k wouldnt sell, listed at 14k wouldnt sell but when listed for 22k it sells for 18.5k? There is no sound logic that would support such a case. Is it reality? I dont know, I dont have anything that proves otherwise.

Im just stating the case that "pulling one over" in the marketplace using ebay as a tool is very viable. Infact it happens. Ive given you a prime example above of how one could happen on a retro patch auto.

People complain about Beckett pricing being way off?? I think ebay is even worse. Ebay prices are easily manipulated by anyone looking to start a specific trend. Atleast with Beckett, it wasnt a daily thing. Ive noticed this when trading on european card forums. They love to BST using beckett prices than ebay prices. Atleast it keeps consistency in the trading. IM starting to agree with the way they do things.


And on TheCombackers comment of me changing? I havent changed. Im the same person. THe only difference here is we dont have someone coming in to twist words and spilling gasoline everywhere with their sidekick waiting on the side with a lit match!! If you carve away politics, most peoples posts are legit. So as long as you dont confuse it with hatred and peer pressure.

Last edited by Orangejello727; 10-04-2012 at 05:31 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:32 PM   #177 (permalink)
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I can't see how you can compare a card that came out at 4-7 k at release to the last one selling for 11k a year ago to a card that will have 3 sales of over 20 k at release . There is a reason why these prices are private because of the buyers wishes its because he or she will probably buy multiple greens . The best thing that could have happened in favor buyers is a green one with a refractor line pop up on ebay .


In most cases on ebay prices are done to make the card look more expensive then it is with these its the opposite .

Last edited by pepsiporch; 10-04-2012 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #178 (permalink)
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Are you suggesting that a Green PMG MJ will be much easier to come by in the future comared to the retro patch auto? If so, how can you come up with that argument??

The most rarest of cards would probably fall on the 97 pmg green MJ. ONly 1 has come up for action in the past 6 yrs. Ive seen more retros patch autos up for auction compared to Jordan Retro pmg greens.
No, I think both cards will be tough to find in the future.

The most rarest card is a masterpiece jordan flair showcase 1/1. The 97 pmg green has 10 copies, by definition it is 10 times more plentiful than the masterpiece.

The reason you don't see any 97 pmg greens is because, as I have told you, two guys have owned 8 of the copies for over a decade, and they aren't leaving their collections.

If I owned all 23 exquiste flashback jordans, you would see ZERO in the next decade cause I wouldn't sell any of them. By your definition, they would be most rare.

On the other hand, by your definiton, if the masterpiece 1/1 was trading hands every other month on ebay, would it still be considered rare? I mean, you don't get much rarer than a true 1/1.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:42 PM   #179 (permalink)
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so wait if theres 10 pmgs but 8 are in collections that will never be let go. Doesn't that mean there are in reality only 2 to be obtained?

People ignore the fact that 'hoarded' cards need to be taking into account when discussing rarity. No?
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:53 PM   #180 (permalink)
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so wait if theres 10 pmgs but 8 are in collections that will never be let go. Doesn't that mean there are in reality only 2 to be obtained?

People ignore the fact that 'hoarded' cards need to be taking into account when discussing rarity. No?
Yes, that was my point.

There is actual population, and available population.

If everyone who owns a pmg green, either retro or original, is going to hold on to it for the next 40 years, then of course they will be rare.

In addition, if all 23 people who own an exquisite flashback do not intend on letting theirs go for the next 40 years, the actual population is higher than that of the pmg retro, but the available population is just as rare.

It's all semantics.

Both are great cards, but both are not necessarily desired by the same group of collectors.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #181 (permalink)
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Yes, that was my point.

There is actual population, and available population.

If everyone who owns a pmg green, either retro or original, is going to hold on to it for the next 40 years, then of course they will be rare.

In addition, if all 23 people who own an exquisite flashback do not intend on letting theirs go for the next 40 years, the actual population is higher than that of the pmg retro, but the available population is just as rare.

It's all semantics.

Both are great cards, but both are not necessarily desired by the same group of collectors.
what if someone takes all 23 and burns 22 of them! What would happen to price then? haha New 1/1!
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:57 PM   #182 (permalink)
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KEEP EXQUISITE
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I am looking for Tayshaun Prince and other UK players LOW number, PATCH, or auto cards.
Also Kenneth Faried SUPERCOLLECTOR!

My Bucket is
http://s569.photobucket.com/home/lovebrittneys
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:37 PM   #183 (permalink)
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For example..

I throw a MJ retro patch auto up for a BIN at $75,000. You (being my friend) offer me $66,000 and I accept. You leave me feedback in 7 days and I do the same for you. Now comes all the people who have now seen and recorded a selling price of the card at $66k. You and I cancel the transaction and in reality save me fees while you pay me a true price of $25k gift. 2 months later, you put the card up for sale with a $100k BIN and someone else (a friend) offers you $75k and you accept it. Leave feedback, cancel transaction and sell it on the side for say $30k. Now you have 2 transactions recorded with legitimate looking sales. Tada, we have now created a going rate for this card and let everyone dwell on these recent trends in hopes a big spender notices and finally pays the $100k before it gets way out of hand and too expensive.
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We dont know. But we can still err on the side of caution. Also by using simple logic. Logic that usually goes out the window with unbelievable sales. For example ont he 97 finest MJ die cut refractor. 2 auctions sitting with BGS 9.5 grades and one listed after the first one sells for $18.5k? Yet another sits on BIN for 14k and no one touches it. To make matters worse, there are atleast 5 offers over 14k for the one that just sold yet none of those guys want to offer on the one sitting at $14k? Or the fact that the card listed for 12k wouldnt sell, listed at 14k wouldnt sell but when listed for 22k it sells for 18.5k? There is no sound logic that would support such a case. Is it reality? I dont know, I dont have anything that proves otherwise.

Im just stating the case that "pulling one over" in the marketplace using ebay as a tool is very viable. Infact it happens. Ive given you a prime example above of how one could happen on a retro patch auto.


Orange, you have voiced out about this "friends" buying each others' cards for fake high prices THEORY many many times when it comes to high end Jordan sales. While it can and may have happened in the past NOT only with Jordan cards but everything else, that was NOT the case with the Gold Embossed Refractor Jordan and that is the God honest truth. Genuinely, I am speaking out to you.

It was explained FULLY with solid Proof in the original thread when you asked this same exact question. If I recall correctly, you've even acknowledged the sale being real once you saw the proof. I don't get why you have changed your mind about it since then?

It will be explained once more for you and maybe others who you might have steered to make them believe your theory regarding the sale. But do you not see? If it were indeed true in the slightest bit, I would NOT go through such tiresome trouble correcting this false accusations. I am really tired of hearing you and others accuse me and my sale with your friend manipulation theory.


I purchased that #32/74 Gold Embossed Refractor from kobes_for_sale in an open auction close to $11k. I listed it to showcase and entertain offers with a ~$13k BIN initially. Then I received several offers close to it so I raised the BIN price higher.

Sir_Lannir contacted me about purchasing the card 2 months after I listed it. According to him, he had missed the kobes_for_sale auction as he was away/busy during the auction. He also explained how he's been direly searching for that card for a long time. He was well aware of the nybeamo's copy with a lower BIN price but wanted mine due to the better sub-grades. Many high end collectors are very picky with sub-grades and that is the truth. If they are willing to spend five figures on a card, they usually make sure it's the best copy they can get and willingly spend more doing so. And it doesn't matter which card had more offers or not. One can receive many more higher offers than a similar card listed due to MANY reasons. Better description, pictures, reputation, feedback, condition, grades, etc. In addition, offer prices can't even be seen by anyone other than the seller so it wouldn't make a difference how high the offers were.


Now before he hit the BIN button, he contacted me. I told him thanks for his high offer but I will have to pass because I had JUST obtained my "dream" card finally. Then he haggled me more and gave me higher offers after another. In the middle of it, I kept raising my BIN price because I was nervous he'd just hit the BIN. Then when I finally set it at $18.25k, he contacted me once more and said he'd give me the full asking price. Even being my dream card, how can anyone pass up that amazing offer? That's when he hit it, PAID fully via Paypal and even waited until I transferred the full amount into my Bank account. Because proof was demanded, I even took SCREEN SHOTS of the Paypal Payment receipt and the funds being transferred to my bank account. I even took pictures of the card being packaged up, sent off and posted Delivery confirmation of that card being delivered across the country. I don't think ANYONE has done that for anyone in the history of sales on a forum. Only BO because of the people too quick to slander ones name and accuse them of being a scammer.

When you look at it from the outside, I can understand how you or anyone can think the "friends theory" was taking place because of the high price, but that is COMPLETELY false. Sir_Lanner is definitely not my "friend." I didn't know he even existed until he contacted me about purchasing the card. We spoke maybe twice on the phone during the deal and that is nothing unusual as we were dealing with a near $20k card transaction. I've never spoken to him after that. That card is still locked away in his PC and the money I received was well spent/invested in other things. Sorry to burst your bubble but that was in fact a REAL TRUE AUTHENTIC LEGIT Sale. I have NEVER fake sold anything to anyone ever. I have proof of EVERY card I've purchased and sold. Outright does a well job book keeping every transaction. If I am lying in the slightest bit, let GOD himself strike me, my entire family and condemn my future offspring.



Now let's go over the history of the actual CARD and how/why it could even sell for such a high amount as it's difficult for some to comprehend. Some of you can't fathom how a non Game Used Auto card can fetch that high but thanks to the Retros, many of those people are now understanding that rare INSERTS can in fact sell for an astronomical price without having an Auto or a Game Used piece. There's also a reason why Retro's have been selling so high and it's thanks to the success and value of the ORIGINAL 90's inserts they mimic. So it shouldn't be difficult to realize that maybe the originals can indeed sell for a high amount.


First of all, the Gold Embossed Refractor has ALWAYS been one of the Top Jordan cards since it's debut in 1997. That's a fact. If you've been around and participated in Jordan card collecting since early/mid 90's, you will surely understand and agree. Collectors went nuts over them and still do. They are very elusive cards whether you may believe it or not. This card was mentioned several times in articles and columns written in both Beckett and Tuff Stuff price guide magazines. Usually almost always placed in the Top 10 Jordan cards of all time amongst High End 90's Jordan collectors.

These cards were from PREMIUM packs that costed $15-$20 each when most packs were $3-$5 dollars. It had astronomical odds of 1:1152 meaning it would take over 46,000 packs to have a chance at pulling a Jordan. It was the FIRST Serial #'d Refractor card in the history of Basketball cards. It was produced DURING the legendary legacy of MJ as a Bulls when he sealed his 6th and Final Championship. I still remember witnessing a Gold Embossed Refractor Jordan selling for $5k cash in front of my eyes during the Summer of 2000 at a card convention held at a local Holiday Inn Hotel. Same time when PMG Red Jordans were trading hands for $500. It was jaw dropping and remember quite a buzz there. Blew me away and made me a true believer. Probably a big reason why I like the card so much. Ever since then, I've been hunting this card. Never been able to land one until just last year.

Even in 1999 the Gold Embossed Refractor was valued higher than most Serial #'d parallels (excluding PMG Green and GJ Auto). It was always one of the top dogs on the list. Triple the value of PMG Red and Playmakers Theatre and FIVE times the value of the original Jambalaya. Just looking at the value history of this card, one can't help to realize how valuable these cards have always been and continue to be with more time. The trend always pointed up ever since it's debut, never once down. This card carried a $1,500 Book Value in the very beginning. Then over the years the BV rose to $1,800, $3,000 to $5,000 and now $7,500 in NRMT condition. According to Beckett Online Pricing, Mint condition is valued near $10k and no pricing for Gem Mints. That is talking about BOOK VALUE. Market value was ALWAYS higher than Book Value for these particular cards btw.


Now onto MARKET VALUE and history of sales.

There are /74 produced. They are over 15 years old. MOST have been dried up within this long time and still locked away in PC's, in packs or long lost. However, some have popped up on eBay for sale over the years but still very few. 74 might seem like a high number to some, but that is hardly the case when speaking about 90's parallel inserts unlike today's modern cards. ALWAYS remember, the lower the production # doesn't always mean it is more VALUABLE and has more DEMAND. There are TONS of MJ cards that have /23 or even 1/1's that sell much lower than higher produced Serial #'d cards. Price and value does not directly correlate with the production #. There's so much more to it than that and I think us as collectors all realize this.

Anyways, let's go over ALL of them.


I believe only ONE copy was finally available for sale on eBay in 2007. No one can recall seeing any before that. It was #54/74 which had a BIN price of $8k. Nobody hit the button and ended without a buyer. Very understandable as TWO 1997-98 PMG GREEN Jordans sold for $6k at the time.

Then in 2010 the same card from the same seller listed it again in an open auction. Ended close to $7k.

1 year later, a BGS 9.5 copy #38/74 became available. Immediately the bids climbed sky high and it ended early as a partial eBay deal of $6k plus $4k outside of eBay. Total of $10k. Faded as you can see (See the Redness of Jordan's Jersey and Green in the Legs). Locked away in a PC. This was the same time the Credentials Now BGS 8 was listed. Maybe you remember.




Then another BGS 9.5 copy #32/74 sold by kobes_for_sale ended nearly $11k which I obtained. Very much faded. That same card was sold for $18.25k later to Sir_Lannir. Locked away in a PC.




After many months of searching, I finally located the ELITE collector who purchased the #54/74. The same card first to be available on eBay in 2007. I sold it to Nat then he sold it for over $15k. Also faded. Locked away in a PC now.



He now has Nybeamo's #71/74 copy locked away in his PC. This is the only one I would consider having full color with NO fading. VERY difficult to find one without greening. Slight ding on the back bottom corner but still very sharp looking card.




Before that, I obtained #56/74 at a quick $5k BIN. Got super lucky as I was one of the first to see it in the middle of the night. I asked the seller why he had such a low BIN price before sending him payment as I was suspicious. He told me he was the original pack puller so it was pure profit for him. I sold it within the same week for $10k. Extremely faded.



The buyer had that graded a BGS 9 and sold it for ~$10k to someone else. That person took it to the Nationals this year and sold to kkoenig75 who has it listed currently (Item #310434379085). Heard it was purchased around $10k also. Relatively same prices being swapped between 3 different buyers for this particular card. I remember it being very faded with a noticeable chip on the front surface.




Then the Belgium guy that sold his for $10k with a faulty buyer was extremely faded also #11/74. Word has it that it sold as a second chance offer for $7k-$8k.




The BGS 9 copy that was sold by kobes_for_sale again to Nat then went overseas and back to US is actually in my hands now #63/74. Sold for $7.5k a year ago to an Aussie. This was one that was considered to be a Full Colored Non-Faded copy. But when I compare it to a true full colored copy, you will see it still has slight greening. I am planning to sell it later in an open auction so we will see how much this one goes for and you are more than welcome to speculate the sale.




And now the one I was lucky enough to obtain #19/74. Funny story, the seller was the original guy who pulled it from a pack in 1997. He said he didn't quite know how rare the card was but by the way it looked, he knew it was special. He immediately stored in a safety deposit box the same day he pulled it. Left there for 15 years untouched, he searched on Google for the card and ran into my website a few months ago. He contacted me asking if I wanted to buy it, but unfortunately the sale history I had on my site backfired as he was asking for a VERY high price tag. I ended up paying a fortune and picked it up in person across 2 states anyways.



The only copy in existence that has gotten the Perfect Pristine 10 sub-grade on the surface. Absolutely the best Non-Faded copy I've ever seen. Highest graded at that.

I have received several offers for this particular card between $14k-$17k which I've all denied. Just a few weeks ago I received a near $20k offer for the card which I am seriously considering. I am actually in the middle of the deal right now.

Simply put, a BGS 9 copy sold for $7.5k then $10k. 2 ungraded copies were sold for $10k. A BGS 9.5 sold for ~$7k two years ago. Then $11k, $18.25k, $15.1k and now potentially $20k for the highest graded copy Non-Faded even in the midst of growing population. All sold and purchased by different sellers and buyers around the World. More than half of which were the same cards being sold again by different sellers to different buyers #32/74, 54/74, 56/74, and 63/74.

So there it is. EVERYTHING broken down for you and I hope it answers all the questions you had. Whether you agree or not, these cards are highly coveted among Jordan collectors and they are indeed rare and very valuable. I was able to obtain as much as 5 BECAUSE I was religiously tracking and looking for them and spent ludicrous amounts of money doing so. I spent hours talking to collectors around the world for leads. One thing is for sure... no matter how many become available in the future, the DEMAND will always surpass the Supply.



Yes I know I was banned from here. But NOT because of shilling/scamming or anything shady. It was because I mentioned SportsItUpCards mom and wife's name in a very heated flame war. That's all. BTW, Gio and I are on good terms now as we have talked everything out and called it truce. And the Jordan RC BGS 9.5+ card someone mentioned about me shilling is false as well. It was listed in an open auction and won by a faulty buyer who I've reported and filed a non-paying bidder with eBay. I received the credit back and relisted immediately in an open auction again. It sold for much lower to MNMIRACLE which he turned around and sold it for a higher amount a few weeks after. Also, some have kept pointing out my bid retractions as a tactic to put a negative twist on my character. Also completely false. I have a 1% bid retraction rate where I place 500 bids per month on the average. If you actually go back to every auction I've placed retractions, anyone can CLEARLY see they were all on low/mid-end cards with LOW bids that were retracted EARLY on in the auction which played NO role in altering the final sale price at all. There were countless times where I placed bids on a card then a day or two later found a similar card in better condition with better centering, original coatings intact, etc. That's when I retract my bids and go for the better one. That has nothing to do with anything shady.


I will most likely be put away again as I am exposed as rare23air83, but I just HAD to come in and spread the TRUTH. I am really getting tired of having my name and sales falsely accused of something so terrible and negative. I always strived to be honest and go the extra mile to do so. Not just with cards but everything else in life. I have 100% positive feedback, Power Seller, hundreds of collectors I've dealt with that can vouch for me and my cards all day long. You can imagine how terrible it is when someone that hardly knows you and has never done a single deal with them, badmouth everything about you with nothing to back it up. They are just opinions and personal preference of not liking someone based on personal speculation. Nothing factual.

So please... see the TRUTH. If you have questions, feel free to contact me. You know how to. I will be MORE than happy to answer anything and even provide proof. Behind computer screens, it is very easy to get a false image of someone. I honestly don't think you're a bad guy. Maybe one day you and I will meet at the Nationals or something and have an opportunity to sit down and chat. I promise you'll have a totally different feeling towards me once you get to know me. I am not a manipulator, shiller or scammer at ALL. I am even thinking about stepping away from the Hobby for awhile and come back later. The drama is too much in the Basketball Hobby world right now in general.

Anyways, I did not come here to cause trouble. Only trying to clear a misconception. Take care and happy collecting.

Last edited by thetruth23; 10-04-2012 at 10:58 PM.
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:44 PM   #184 (permalink)
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interesting....

i have a question how many other previous usernames have you had here?

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Old 10-04-2012, 09:18 PM   #185 (permalink)
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interesting....

i have a question how many other previous usernames have you had here?
This is the VERY first time believe it or not and I am acknowledging it is me. I am very tired of false accusations of me floating around. The hobby would be a much better place if people did actual RESEARCH before quickly accusing someone so easily. The facts are all there for anyone to look into.
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:26 PM   #186 (permalink)
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This is the VERY first time believe it or not and I am acknowledging it is me. I am very tired of false accusations of me floating around. The hobby would be a much better place if people did actual RESEARCH before quickly accusing someone so easily. The facts are all there for anyone to look into.
Yeah I know this is the first time you are 'acknowledging' it. I'm asking you to acknowledge the previous times?
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Old 10-04-2012, 09:46 PM   #187 (permalink)
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Yeah I know this is the first time you are 'acknowledging' it. I'm asking you to acknowledge the previous times?
I have no problem doing so if it were true, but no... this is the very first time. I read someone accusing me of being vintagecardguy, smoothfidelity and some other guys on here, but that is COMPLETELY false. If it was me, I would have just come here and said the same thing I am right now without wasting time or bs.

OZCardtrader suspended me a week or two ago for getting into the same old flame war between me and Gio so I made up the same account there with "TheTruth23" just in case I wanted to PM someone about a card I wanted, etc. I will acknowledge that even though I have yet to post anything there and I don't think I will either. The easy thing to do would be to never check the forum and just live my life not caring what others say about me... but it boils my blood thinking about it when I have done nothing wrong but constantly being accused of some of the nastiest things ever. I've been scammed before and it made my life much more difficult then. I wouldn't want ANYONE to go through that. I hate scammers and manipulators just as much as any other normal human being. It is wrong on EVERY level. So being called one all the time when it is completely false makes it hard for me to let it go unnoticed.

Since people like using simple logic... just ask yourself why I would go through so much trouble explaining everything? If any of the accusations were even REMOTELY true in the slightest way, I wouldn't even bother because no matter how heated the flames and accusations get... it dies down and people move on eventually. But because it's NOT true and I feel so horrible about it, I am taking my time to explain over and over and trying to clear this false misconception.

It's getting to a point where I want to take a step away from the hobby I love so much. The hobby I enjoyed ever since I was a kid ripping packs open in my living room floor with smiles of joy. It's quite sad really.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:16 PM   #188 (permalink)
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OZCardtrader suspended me a week or two ago for getting into the same old flame war between me and Gio so I made up the same account there with "TheTruth23" just in case I wanted to PM someone about a card I wanted, etc.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:44 PM   #189 (permalink)
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Don't worry, as a mod there this has been noticed and will be deactivated if it hasn't already!
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:53 PM   #190 (permalink)
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It's all good guys. I don't really care about being a member on a forum or not. It doesn't affect or alter my life in anyway. I just want the truth to be known, the false accusations to finally stop, and clear up the misconception.

I came here already knowing and prepared to be shunned out of BO and OZ, hence why I even posted all the information in the first place. The mods should do the rest.

The truth should always prevail at the end. I hope this will too and I certainly hope no one else will go through a similar experience because it's just not right nor fair.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:20 PM   #191 (permalink)
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The pics of the 3 previous sales all had the same sub grades, just on different subs. 1-10, 2-9.5 and 1-9. None of them had better subs. They were all the same. Yet only 1 achieved that 18.5k.

I dont question your sale if it went through or not. I do question someone paying top dollar for a card but not another the same sub grades just on different subs.

I also question just how rare a card is if you were able to find 4 to 5 copies in such a short period of time. Its a perception set by you that its impossible to find this card yet you were able to transact between 5 copies in such a short time. THats just a prime example of controlling inventory and new high record prices set to gauge the next sale.

People can buy and pay any way they want. THis is further proof to my earlier statement to herman that those with deep pockets have less knowledge in pricing and are more consumed by emotions and limitless wallets instead of logic.

Im sure my example happens more often then not. On which cards, who knows. But it happens. Im sure you will sell this one for 22k+ and suprisingly have another one ready for sale in a short period of time thereafter. I dont know how anyone can sell the idea of a card being so rare that you have one available right after selling one. Not once, not twice but 3 times.
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Old 10-04-2012, 11:55 PM   #192 (permalink)
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The pics of the 3 previous sales all had the same sub grades, just on different subs. 1-10, 2-9.5 and 1-9. None of them had better subs. They were all the same. Yet only 1 achieved that 18.5k.

I dont question your sale if it went through or not. I do question someone paying top dollar for a card but not another the same sub grades just on different subs.

I also question just how rare a card is if you were able to find 4 to 5 copies in such a short period of time. Its a perception set by you that its impossible to find this card yet you were able to transact between 5 copies in such a short time. THats just a prime example of controlling inventory and new high record prices set to gauge the next sale.

People can buy and pay any way they want. THis is further proof to my earlier statement to herman that those with deep pockets have less knowledge in pricing and are more consumed by emotions and limitless wallets instead of logic.

Im sure my example happens more often then not. On which cards, who knows. But it happens. Im sure you will sell this one for 22k+ and suprisingly have another one ready for sale in a short period of time thereafter. I dont know how anyone can sell the idea of a card being so rare that you have one available right after selling one. Not once, not twice but 3 times.

I agree with you. I am sure it has happened before and continues to happen today but not with any of my sales. Never not once have I faked or manipulated any.

We all know there are not many people who can spend 5 figures on a card. Everyone has their own lives and finances. There are many points in life where one doesn't have money to spend like that, then a few months or years later, finances become available and now they are in the market to spend. So just because a card has sat stale with a lower BIN price for a month or two without any biters doesn't make it impossible for someone to show up later willing to buy it for more when they have the money. Vice versa. People who have the money now might not have it later.

And cards/collectibles do not have set retail prices like consumer goods. Selling price ALWAYS vary from one another correct? They can vary from a few hundred to even a few thousand when talking about $10k+ cards. The one I bought was near $11k. Then this super buyer showed up and bought it for a lot more. Maybe I did a very well job with marketing the card? I got incredibly lucky with timing? Either way, he showed up and bought it. Plain and simple.

Few more have sold in the area of $10k ungraded or 9s and another Gem Mint for $15.1k by Nat. Now this $20k sale potential.

I say they are rare because they are. I was able to obtain up to 5 because I have spent many hours and talked to several people for leads. My website naturally ranks on Google in the top pages when you search for specific Jordan cards. An average of 3500 hits a month. Its a wonderful tool to meet collectors around the world and find leads to rare cards. I would like to think I have an advantage searching for specific Jordans because of it and it has clearly proven to do so. Just because "I" had 5 copies doesnt make it any less rare. If i were nuts over the original PMG Red Jordan or Grand Finale like I am with the Gold Embossed Refractor, I guarantee you I would have had 5 of those or more.

I've been focusing on this card more than any other for obvious reasons. You can't dock the card because one owner had located and purchased a few. Just like when the Asian collector had 8 PMG Green Jorans at one point. It Doesn't take anything away from the card's rarity.

Anyways, thanks for keeping it Civil Orange. Appreciate it.

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:19 AM   #193 (permalink)
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Anybody know if post #183 is the longest in BO history that has nothing to do with the topic? I got through half of the first paragraph before realizing this member has a huge chip on his shoulder. After being kicked off the forum recently He actually created another username and tracked orangello down so he could make his point. Then posted it in a thread that has nothing to do with his topic, Way to go truth! you got the last word(s) now learn to let things go, it's just cardboard
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Old 10-05-2012, 08:45 AM   #194 (permalink)
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Don't worry, as a mod there this has been noticed and will be deactivated if it hasn't already!
What i don't get did he Sign up under a fake name , address etc????

I mean he would originally signed up as JUN Rare Air , what did he use to sign up after being banned ?

Weird stuff .
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Old 10-06-2012, 09:24 AM   #195 (permalink)
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Yes, I'll hold it!!! Really, recently did you had a deal for a Retro? Which numered? Have you a pic?
sorry been away on business (which is also why it took me so long to answer your e-mails)....I had a deal at the National to buy a Retro Exq MJ @$18k and the guy backed out adn said he wanted more now

I am still actively looking for a Retro (I know approx how much you are into yours for and while it is a bit on the high side, it just proves how valuable these cardsreally are )
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Old 10-06-2012, 10:23 PM   #196 (permalink)
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sorry been away on business (which is also why it took me so long to answer your e-mails)....I had a deal at the National to buy a Retro Exq MJ @$18k and the guy backed out adn said he wanted more now

I am still actively looking for a Retro (I know approx how much you are into yours for and while it is a bit on the high side, it just proves how valuable these cardsreally are )
I have alway's wondered , Is the patch actually from his RC year season ?
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:02 PM   #197 (permalink)
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I have alway's wondered , Is the patch actually from his RC year season ?
No...just a beautiful mj patch au
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:43 PM   #198 (permalink)
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The current thread reminded me of this (one of the first threads I ever posted in on blowout). Interesting discussion and a little nostalgia! Also, Haiku posted in it, so thats pretty cool.
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:45 PM   #199 (permalink)
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now this is a funny thread...in my opinion not even a question and how are u even thinking of doing this trade LOL no way in HELL wld I ever trade the flashback for a unc mj pmg green
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Old 07-25-2013, 04:49 PM   #200 (permalink)
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I'll keep the 09-10 Exquisite for sure.
No way a remake of PMG Green can top it.
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