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Old 10-12-2012, 08:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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williams could be a PF...after watching melo play a lot of PF last year (after it was thought he was STRICTLY a SF) he played better at the PF and created some really hard match-up problems for defenses. Williams could do the same thing. although he's a little undersized its basically the same exact idea. he's got good moves by the basket and could elude bigger and slower PF's just like melo was doing... I got faith in the young man still.
I may be wrong, but I think Williams is bigger than melo
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:17 PM   #27 (permalink)
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williams could be a PF...after watching melo play a lot of PF last year (after it was thought he was STRICTLY a SF) he played better at the PF and created some really hard match-up problems for defenses. Williams could do the same thing. although he's a little undersized its basically the same exact idea. he's got good moves by the basket and could elude bigger and slower PF's just like melo was doing... I got faith in the young man still.
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I may be wrong, but I think Williams is bigger than melo
I believe he is a bit bigger as well, but not by much

Either way, Williams is stronger than Melo, just not as quick, which is why Melo should be and is a SF and why Williams should be a PF.

Melo would make Williams look like a fool if he tried to guard him on the perimeter, but Williams would eat Melo's lunch down low, Melo wouldn't be able to stop him at all.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I believe he is a bit bigger as well, but not by much

Either way, Williams is stronger than Melo, just not as quick, which is why Melo should be and is a SF and why Williams should be a PF.

Melo would make Williams look like a fool if he tried to guard him on the perimeter, but Williams would eat Melo's lunch down low, Melo wouldn't be able to stop him at all.
Also, nobody plays D in the NBA haha
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:23 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I believe he is a bit bigger as well, but not by much

Either way, Williams is stronger than Melo, just not as quick, which is why Melo should be and is a SF and why Williams should be a PF.

Melo would make Williams look like a fool if he tried to guard him on the perimeter, but Williams would eat Melo's lunch down low, Melo wouldn't be able to stop him at all.
they're basically the same size. williams might have a couple pounds on him. the thing that makes melo such a great scorer is he is quick and very strong. i mean he's a stout man. if anything melo proved last year that maybe he should be a PF. he put up better numbers playing the PF and everyone in NY is crowing for him to be a PF based on last year. he was so quick that, like you said in comparison to williams, he dominated 4s by taking them outside and then being able to burn them to the rim. he is also a very underrated rebounder, and can rebound with 4s.
that was the whole thing, 4s would beat melo most of the time down low, but they have tyson to clean it up. melo would beat 4s every time so it was a big matchup problem. most of the time melo can't hold 3s or 4s lol so you might as well get him in the offensive situation that suits him best. which last year proved to be at the 4.
im making the comparison because they are both a bit undersized for playing the 4 and i think williams would be able to beat opposing 4s a lot of the time while still holding his own guarding them...
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:25 PM   #30 (permalink)
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they're basically the same size. williams might have a couple pounds on him. the thing that makes melo such a great scorer is he is quick and very strong. i mean he's a stout man. if anything melo proved last year that maybe he should be a PF. he put up better numbers playing the PF and everyone in NY is crowing for him to be a PF based on last year. he was so quick that, like you said in comparison to williams, he dominated 4s by taking them outside and then being able to burn them to the rim. he is also a very underrated rebounder, and can rebound with 4s.
that was the whole thing, 4s would beat melo most of the time down low, but they have tyson to clean it up. melo would beat 4s every time so it was a big matchup problem. most of the time melo can't hold 3s or 4s lol so you might as well get him in the offensive situation that suits him best. which last year proved to be at the 4.
im making the comparison because they are both a bit undersized for playing the 4 and i think williams would be able to beat opposing 4s a lot of the time while still holding his own guarding them...
Your "4" key must be out of breath
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:27 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Your "4" key must be out of breath
444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444444

nah its fine

would you like me to say PF instead for you?
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:29 PM   #32 (permalink)
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they're basically the same size. williams might have a couple pounds on him. the thing that makes melo such a great scorer is he is quick and very strong. i mean he's a stout man. if anything melo proved last year that maybe he should be a PF. he put up better numbers playing the PF and everyone in NY is crowing for him to be a PF based on last year. he was so quick that, like you said in comparison to williams, he dominated 4s by taking them outside and then being able to burn them to the rim. he is also a very underrated rebounder, and can rebound with 4s.
that was the whole thing, 4s would beat melo most of the time down low, but they have tyson to clean it up. melo would beat 4s every time so it was a big matchup problem. most of the time melo can't hold 3s or 4s lol so you might as well get him in the offensive situation that suits him best. which last year proved to be at the 4.
im making the comparison because they are both a bit undersized for playing the 4 and i think williams would be able to beat opposing 4s a lot of the time while still holding his own guarding them...
You're right, they're actually very similar in the sense that if they both played the 4 they would be able to hold their own down low just fine (Williams more than Melo) but most 4's couldn't keep up with them on the perimeter (Melo More than Williams)

It's just very frustrating to see Williams just completely wasted being played at the 3, he was a freaking center in college. Granted that's mainly because when he was in school we were ridiculously undersized, but still, you don't go from playing center in college to a SF in the NBA.

He is a shorter version of Amare IMO but a much better shooter
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:43 PM   #33 (permalink)
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You're right, they're actually very similar in the sense that if they both played the 4 they would be able to hold their own down low just fine (Williams more than Melo) but most 4's couldn't keep up with them on the perimeter (Melo More than Williams)

It's just very frustrating to see Williams just completely wasted being played at the 3, he was a freaking center in college. Granted that's mainly because when he was in school we were ridiculously undersized, but still, you don't go from playing center in college to a SF in the NBA.

He is a shorter version of Amare IMO but a much better shooter
thats true man definitely a valid point. He isn't a 3 and thats just it. if he can't succeed at the 4 then he doesn't have much of a role. amare has been a very good shooter (save last year lol) his mid range was deadly the first year he was in NY and seemed like it went in every time. last year he was just OFF shooting the ball. its funny, derrick is kind of like an amare /melo hybrid lol...he has some good qualities of both players. I can't really speak to william's defense but it has to be better than either melo or amare's lol. i mean melo plays solid D when he concentrates on playing D but thats about 10% of the time. amare just CANT play D until the last possession of the game lol. thank god the knicks have DPOY tyson chandler and former DPOY marcus camby...
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:48 PM   #34 (permalink)
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thats true man definitely a valid point. He isn't a 3 and thats just it. if he can't succeed at the 4 then he doesn't have much of a role. amare has been a very good shooter (save last year lol) his mid range was deadly the first year he was in NY and seemed like it went in every time. last year he was just OFF shooting the ball. its funny, derrick is kind of like an amare /melo hybrid lol...he has some good qualities of both players. I can't really speak to william's defense but it has to be better than either melo or amare's lol. i mean melo plays solid D when he concentrates on playing D but thats about 10% of the time. amare just CANT play D until the last possession of the game lol. thank god the knicks have DPOY tyson chandler and former DPOY marcus camby...
You know, I hadn't really thought of it before, but he literally is a combination of Melo and Amare in one player essentially, very good comparison.

As for his defense, he doesn't have any on the perimeter, which is the main reason he isn't an NBA SF, he is serviceable in the post, but that was also when he was a 20 year old in college, I'm sure with a few years of seasoning in the NBA he'd become an average to above average defender in the post.

The Wolves are really hurting both Derrick and themselves by not trading him because he's just going to be stuck on the bench since they don't have a spot for him at PF with Love there. By keeping him and limiting his playing time to whatever he can get at SF they aren't showcasing what he can actually do and hurting his trade value.

I'll also say this as a disclaimer, Williams is in my top 2 of favorite Wildcats, he single handedly brought us back to the type of program we are supposed to be and for that, he will always be one of my favorites.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:55 PM   #35 (permalink)
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You know, I hadn't really thought of it before, but he literally is a combination of Melo and Amare in one player essentially, very good comparison.

As for his defense, he doesn't have any on the perimeter, which is the main reason he isn't an NBA SF, he is serviceable in the post, but that was also when he was a 20 year old in college, I'm sure with a few years of seasoning in the NBA he'd become an average to above average defender in the post.

The Wolves are really hurting both Derrick and themselves by not trading him because he's just going to be stuck on the bench since they don't have a spot for him at PF with Love there. By keeping him and limiting his playing time to whatever he can get at SF they aren't showcasing what he can actually do and hurting his trade value.

I'll also say this as a disclaimer, Williams is in my top 2 of favorite Wildcats, he single handedly brought us back to the type of program we are supposed to be and for that, he will always be one of my favorites.
i know, i had never thought of it either, but is a very solid comparison!

Would be interesting to trade him at this point - because after a mildly underwhelming rookie season would they really get the value from him that he's worth? I think at this point you might as well play him behind love, and look to trade love instead the next few years, or see if you can make it work by giving him minutes at the 3 and 4. but they might be able to get a lot for love...
i thought before he signed his new contract he had a very good chance of being out of town and then we wouldn't be having this convo...but the new contract kind of changed things.

its a tough spot because they know derrick is a good player, but at this point im not sure they'd get the right value in a trade for him.
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Old 10-12-2012, 08:57 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Pumped for the season and to see Roy playing with Rubio should be entertaining.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:03 PM   #37 (permalink)
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i know, i had never thought of it either, but is a very solid comparison!

Would be interesting to trade him at this point - because after a mildly underwhelming rookie season would they really get the value from him that he's worth? I think at this point you might as well play him behind love, and look to trade love instead the next few years, or see if you can make it work by giving him minutes at the 3 and 4. but they might be able to get a lot for love...
i thought before he signed his new contract he had a very good chance of being out of town and then we wouldn't be having this convo...but the new contract kind of changed things.

its a tough spot because they know derrick is a good player, but at this point im not sure they'd get the right value in a trade for him.
Oh of course they couldn't get his real value in a trade right now, but I don't really see that value going up anytime soon while he's stuck behind Love at the 4 and not suited to play the 3 and get stuck behind AK47 and Budinger.

And that's the crux of the issue, like you said, they know how talented he is and what he can/will/should become as a player in the NBA and don't want to let him go for pennies on the dollar.

Get what you can out of him now and look back in 5 years and say how dumb of a trade it was, but wait another year to trade him and that trade will look even worse than it would if they were to make a trade now.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:04 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Pumped for the season and to see Roy playing with Rubio should be entertaining.
Right on man
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:19 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Oh of course they couldn't get his real value in a trade right now, but I don't really see that value going up anytime soon while he's stuck behind Love at the 4 and not suited to play the 3 and get stuck behind AK47 and Budinger.

And that's the crux of the issue, like you said, they know how talented he is and what he can/will/should become as a player in the NBA and don't want to let him go for pennies on the dollar.

Get what you can out of him now and look back in 5 years and say how dumb of a trade it was, but wait another year to trade him and that trade will look even worse than it would if they were to make a trade now.
definitely a catch 22...thats why im saying maybe they explore trading love instead? could get some more nice young pieces and picks if they are interested in doing so. but you're right if they're going to trade him eventually, might as well pull the trigger now, because his value will only be going down unless someone gets hurt and he gets to show what he can do (kevin love...).
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:20 PM   #40 (permalink)
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I was obsessed with the B Roy UD Black RC autos had like nine of them total.


Was a fan of AK47 so hopefully can be good. I do hope they are kind of slow with Rubio no real reason to rush him. I was most impressed with Rubios D

Pek is the man!
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #41 (permalink)
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definitely a catch 22...thats why im saying maybe they explore trading love instead? could get some more nice young pieces and picks if they are interested in doing so. but you're right if they're going to trade him eventually, might as well pull the trigger now, because his value will only be going down unless someone gets hurt and he gets to show what he can do (kevin love...).
obviously they could get more for Love, but when you have probably the best and most well rounded PF in the game, you don't normally trade him because of an unproven second year player

And that's coming from a die hard Williams fan obviously, Love isn't going anywhere
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:37 PM   #42 (permalink)
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obviously they could get more for Love, but when you have probably the best and most well rounded PF in the game, you don't normally trade him because of an unproven second year player

And that's coming from a die hard Williams fan obviously, Love isn't going anywhere
this is true. but they aren't winning now. they're not winning in the next 4 years most likely. if you can get some draft picks and young talent then you might do it...will love sign on again after this 4 years if the wolves continue to be mediocre? they might make the playoffs but they aren't built to go deep in the playoffs in the near future. and like you said he might be the best PF in the game, you could get a TON for him...i'd consider it...
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:39 PM   #43 (permalink)
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this is true. but they aren't winning now. they're not winning in the next 4 years most likely. if you can get some draft picks and young talent then you might do it...will love sign on again after this 4 years if the wolves continue to be mediocre? they might make the playoffs but they aren't built to go deep in the playoffs in the near future. and like you said he might be the best PF in the game, you could get a TON for him...i'd consider it...
They are definitely winning in the next 4 years
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:40 PM   #44 (permalink)
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They are definitely winning in the next 4 years
a championship? i mean yeah they'll win some games lol...
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:50 PM   #45 (permalink)
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a championship? i mean yeah they'll win some games lol...
In a few years they COULD be contenders. It's possible with the talent they habe
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:54 PM   #46 (permalink)
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In a few years they COULD be contenders. It's possible with the talent they habe
they could be...thats why i said most likely they won't be lol. i like your confidence tho! they are definitely in a lot better spots than most teams. i've always been a huge fan of rubio ever since i wanted him in that draft where we took jordan hill sorry zonacats8 ( i actually dont dislike jordan hill, thats a discussion for another time lol) ... but you're right they could be contenders, its too early to tell who will be and who won't be contenders in 3-4 years. but as of now they're not quite there yet in my opinion. they are a lot better than they have been tho. i dont see them playing a ton of defense, especially their front court. rubio can defend (although steals and defense arent the same) but they'll have to become a more elite defensive team if they plan on contending in my opinion.
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Old 10-12-2012, 09:56 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Williams explodes for 25 tonight! Budinger with 14
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:05 PM   #48 (permalink)
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Williams explodes for 25 tonight! Budinger with 14
Bear Down Wildcats!!!!!

And Knicker, I love me some Jordan Hill, he was a truly dominant post player his final year in school, but he shouldn't have gone pro. He just didn't have the experience as he only started playing basketball his junior year in high school, he just needed more seasoning.

He really started to come into his own last year down the stretch for the Lakers, looking forward to seeing how much he can improve going up against Howard and Gasol everyday in practice
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:07 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Bear Down Wildcats!!!!!

And Knicker, I love me some Jordan Hill, he was a truly dominant post player his final year in school, but he shouldn't have gone pro. He just didn't have the experience as he only started playing basketball his junior year in high school, he just needed more seasoning.

He really started to come into his own last year down the stretch for the Lakers, looking forward to seeing how much he can improve going up against Howard and Gasol everyday in practice
I'm loving how bud is playing so far this preseason
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Old 10-12-2012, 10:14 PM   #50 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by zonacats8 View Post
Bear Down Wildcats!!!!!

And Knicker, I love me some Jordan Hill, he was a truly dominant post player his final year in school, but he shouldn't have gone pro. He just didn't have the experience as he only started playing basketball his junior year in high school, he just needed more seasoning.

He really started to come into his own last year down the stretch for the Lakers, looking forward to seeing how much he can improve going up against Howard and Gasol everyday in practice
yeah man, i didn't hate jordan hill as most knicks fans did. there were some other people on the board i wanted...but i really wanted rubio who went a couple picks before them obviously or steph who was oooh so close......

i have a tinfoil hat theory (lol, and im not big into conspiracies) that the knicks knew they'd have to part with whoever they drafted if they were going to clear as much cap space as they wanted in order to make a run at the FA's that summer (lebron, amare, bosh etc). they knew that the knicks fans would be furious with that pick (they HAD to know that lol) and it would make him easy to trade as the fans wouldnt be down with him. they knew like you said he wasn't quite ready for the nba. he wouldn't make an immediate impact and therefor not be an immediate fan favorite. where as if they had drafted say, brandon jennings, they would have had a HARD time parting with him and fans would have not appreciated that. i say all of this keeping in mind that the knicks owner is james dolan who doesn't give a $hit about us anyways. but i digress...
the knicks didn't have much assets at that point and their draft pick would be their obvious best one, and would have to be included at some point or another in a deal with one of the many cap killers the knicks had on the books at the time.

so in summation lol, i think they might have taken Jhill knowing full well what they were going to do with him...and that plan didn't involve him being a knick for the long term...

(sorry for the thread diversion)
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