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Old 10-29-2012, 05:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Question Counterfeit Scammer? : Need opinions

I sold a very rare card on Ebay. 13 days after, I get a reply from the buyer saying he did not want the card, as it is damaged (creased) it was not creased when I sent it fully insured. So then I start comparing the card he sent back with my high resolution scans, looking to see if you can see the crease through the card in both the original and on the one sent back. I could not see the defect at all on the original. Then I looked at the font. Here is what I found:




I can send out high resolution scans to anyone interested of my before pictures, and the one I got back. This looks VERY Fishy to me. Before I go off, I want a few sets of eyes to review.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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the "2 OF 5" is way off WOW
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Just looking at the 5 alone and you can tell its a different font.

Who is this scumbag buyer?
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If bought in Ebay appeal the case if buyer filed one
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:26 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Call ebay and tell them you didn't receive the same item back that you sent him (return fraud). Submit the picture and proof. They aren't the greatest to work with - but that's how it goes with them. Hopefully they will be able to see the difference and understand the card is a counterfeit.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:27 PM   #6 (permalink)
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There has been an auction of Jordan and Kobe 98-99 Hoops starting five together by the same seller before. The font there was close to but different to font on authentic one, and is exactly in the same style as the fake one here. So must be the same guy who figured out how to stamp a similar font onto a base card.

So pathetic, pulling a scam on a 200 dollar card and completely exposed himself. Also so crap his skills, none of the lettering/numbering looks even remotely like original font, upon close inspection.

Hope you can get money back asap. Please let us know his ebay ID to avoid this POS.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Yeah the serial numbering looks thinner, looks like you've had a switch happen. Very deceitful.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Is that the ONLY thing different between the /5 and the base card? I'm pretty sure it is.... so that's what happens when something is almost too easy to fake. The scum will always take a chance to make an extra buck instead of going to work smh
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Here is the fake Jordan, and look at how the font looks exactly same as the fake one you just got back:

Michael Jordan 1998 99 Skybox Hoops Starting Five Parallel 5 5 Never Seen | eBay

The seller was not the original seller, and he seems to have been scammed when he tried to flip it.
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Last edited by spinotron; 10-29-2012 at 06:02 PM. Reason: edit: typo
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Exact reason why I never liked inserts, they are way to easy to fake and they offer no difference from their $1 base version.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:55 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tristan20 View Post
Exact reason why I never liked inserts, they are way to easy to fake and they offer no difference from their $1 base version.
It's a parallel, not an insert. And only those with a simple stamp being the difference (pretty much limited to just this kind of one) are likely easy to be faked.
Try counterfeiting a Choice Reserve or a PMG... :P
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:21 PM   #12 (permalink)
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in 99 they changed the starting 5 design. They made the card all foil
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:49 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Here is a copy of the file I am submitting to Ebay as evidence.

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Old 10-29-2012, 07:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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wow, wtf...wonder how he's doing this...must have a custom die produced and foil stamping machine

crazy how shady this hobby has become...and I bet if he sent his counterfeits to bgs they'd still slab them.
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Old 10-29-2012, 07:57 PM   #15 (permalink)
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shut this ebayer down. ebay actually takes counterfeiting very seriously. best of luck to you
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:00 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Good luck, I hope you destroy this douche bag. And I hope eBay finally gives some rights back to the seller. Getting sick of the seller taking all of the risk and not being able to do anything to NPers and scammers.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:12 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Here is a copy of my Email to Ebay Customer support. Hope it was thorough enough lol.
Good Evening,

After speaking with Nicole B at EBay customer support this afternoon I was instructed to submit my photographic evidence that supports my claim that the returned item is a counterfeited version of the actual item I sold on October 7th.

My photographic evidence is visible by visiting the following URLs:

CounterfeitReturneditem.jpg picture by phdbeckett2 - Photobucket This overview image annotates the visible differences in the serial numbered foil stamping on the front of the card. The buyer as created a stamp that he has used that can turn the common, widely-available version of this item into a very limited and valuable version that is serial numbered to just 5 copies in existence.

37.jpg picture by phdbeckett2 - Photobucket This image is a high resolution scan of the item I sold. It is the exact same file as the self-hosted pictures I used when selling the item.

mailedbackfakereturn.jpg picture by phdbeckett2 - Photobucket This image is the scan I made of the item returned to me by the buyer. It is also scanned in high resolution. You can note the different heavier font used in the numbering of the item in silver foil. This is much clearer in the following image.

CounterfeitReturneditem.jpg picture by phdbeckett2 - Photobucket This images compares the returned item (left) with the original item (right) with a magnified sample of the serial number. There is clearly a visible difference in the letter spacing, font, the font weight, and the overall quality of the foil stamping.

It is my belief that the buyer created a damaged counterfeit that he sent back to me to let him "scam" me for a full refund, whilst keeping the original.

I also plan on following up with the local Sheriff's department in the buyer's county as the counterfeiting in this case is for only $208, but it would be to a much higher degree if a more prominent athlete like Michael Jordan, or Kobe Bryant were created using his same technique.

Finally, I raised my concerns on a community message board for card collectors. They all chimed in to echo the exact same concerns, and they validated my suspicions. The thread is available here: Counterfeit Scammer? : Need opinions

If you have any other questions or concerns regarding this case, and my dispute with the buyer, please feel free to contact me.

Thank you,

Joe
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:22 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Whois the buyer ?
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The buyer is: shelby_r69-us
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Wow! So the stamp is the only difference between the base insert and the parallel?

I think ebay will make you file a police report or sign some kind of affidavit to cover their legal side.

I hope this turns out well for you.
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:31 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hche View Post
Wow! So the stamp is the only difference between the base insert and the parallel?

I think ebay will make you file a police report or sign some kind of affidavit to cover their legal side.

I hope this turns out well for you.
I agree, this is straight up fraud and should be prosecuted. Highly recommend you submit a cyber crime report here with the same letter you used to ebay. They do investigate if there's enough compelling evidence.

Internet Crime Complaint Center (IC3) | Home

This guy/girl needs to be shut down and locked up. There's enough patch fakers that don't get caught out there milking the hobby, that scum like this that actually get caught red handed need to be served.

Good luck with it!
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:43 PM   #22 (permalink)
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He's been selling a few questionable authenticity items... The Wilkins Fleer autos look a bit funny to me and he also sold this - 2004 05 E XL Skybox Luol Deng Andre Iguodala Rookie Logoman 1 1 | eBay

Not numbered and therefore bankruptcy auction FAKE.
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Old 10-30-2012, 02:09 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I didn't even know people would try to fake foil stamps like this. Numbered fake stamps is one thing but now they are doing text. I hope the card industries see's this and stop making 1 card with several stupid versions like this that make it easy for people to fake them. Had the "Starting 5" cards had it's own card design then it wouldn't be getting fake's like this cause there's no base version to buy. I hope eBay bans him but then he'll create another account probably and pull the same crap.
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