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Old 11-30-2012, 10:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Question regarding PSA/DNA verified cards

I have an opinion based topic for anyone who may be interested in discussing this question.

I am currently doing a chase for the NBA's 50 greatest players autos. Originally planned on doing it one way but after seeing the difficulty it possesses and the time frame it will take I have decided to be a little more open about what I do get, mostly by what catches my eye.I have been looking into some cards from the 1960's of elgin baylor, lenny wilkens ETC that are autographed and psa/dna certified. I guess I have a two part question.

1. How secure are these? I am a little afraid that even though they are psa/dna certified that they may not be authentic. I am only looking at sellers who have 100% feedback ratings but does that matter?

2. What is everyones perception on how these either help or hurt the value of the card? One of the cards in particular I am looking at is a 1969 topps Lenny Wilkens which has been signed and has passed the psa/dna test and is an EX5. I wasn't aware you could get the card verified and graded at the same time? To me I feel like it semi ruins the integrity of what the card originally was but at the same time it adds a unique attraction that for whatever reason is drawing me into them. I feel like the alterations only add to the history of the card. Whats the publics perception of these though?

I am not buying them to resell them but there may be a day where I get rid of them to upgrade a certain player for the PC etc and I don't want to invest in something that literally has no value. Any insight and thoughts would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:45 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Try to avoid them, PSA has been known to grade fake autos, also people break the cases and glue them back, its not difficult to do.

Buy certified autos from UD, unless you must.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:34 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Edited........

Last edited by WillC; 11-17-2013 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:54 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I appreciate the comments back guys.

@tristan- thats a major concern of mine in the authentication of fake autos and also the glueing back of the cases. Part of me wants to avoid them but then I see cards like WILLC's

@WillC- Thank you for sharing those!I also love the look of the Vintage cards. And when you add those autographs to them it just adds something special to them IMO. They sign something that is from their playing days which is unique. The Wilt and Pistol Pete are AMAAAAAZZZZZING. Truly maybe the 2 nicest cards I have ever seen. I don't know why the vintage autos give me that feeling but they are beautiful!

If the serial # matches the player in question would there be any concern about it being tampered with? Is the only concern then that PSA authenticated a fake?
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:59 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Personally, I wouldn't touch a PSA/DNA autograph. There is absolutely no guarantee that the signature is real. As a matter of fact, there have been multiple instances where I could tell the autograph was a fake. However, sometimes it's high risk/high reward. Players like Pistol Pete, Wilt, Barkley, etc could very well be worth it if you do your homework.

As for your specific questions, just because a seller has 100% positive feedback doesn't mean the signature is real. Second, if the autograph is real and authenticated, it does not lower the value of the card. Especially if you are keeping them for your personal collection. I hope this helps a little bit. Good luck.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:11 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ballahollic2 View Post
@WillC- Thank you for sharing those!I also love the look of the Vintage cards. And when you add those autographs to them it just adds something special to them IMO. They sign something that is from their playing days which is unique. The Wilt and Pistol Pete are AMAAAAAZZZZZING. Truly maybe the 2 nicest cards I have ever seen. I don't know why the vintage autos give me that feeling but they are beautiful!
Thanks, I appreciate it.

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Originally Posted by ballahollic2 View Post
If the serial # matches the player in question would there be any concern about it being tampered with? Is the only concern then that PSA authenticated a fake?
As far as I'm aware, if the serial number matches the player in question then it's highly unlikely that the card has been tampered with. Why would a seller do that? I think the only motive would be to replace the card featuring a real autograph with a bigger, bolder autograph. But if the original was a real autograph, why would a seller risk replacing it with a fake?

Something else to bear in mind is that often PSA/DNA representatives will be on hand to see the player sign the card in question. For example, Mill Creek Sports are well known for getting retired stars into their store to sign cards, e.g. Shawn Kemp, Gary Payton and other players in the state of Washington. The cards are authenticated there and then.

Obviously the above doesn't apply to deceased players.

However, PSA/DNA reject a large number of autographs that come their way, so it's not like they are authenticating every card they receive. They are experts at verifying autographs. Like I said, I'm sure they make the occasional mistake, but I'd trust them over anyone else.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingofkings1281 View Post
Personally, I wouldn't touch a PSA/DNA autograph. There is absolutely no guarantee that the signature is real. As a matter of fact, there have been multiple instances where I could tell the autograph was a fake. However, sometimes it's high risk/high reward. Players like Pistol Pete, Wilt, Barkley, etc could very well be worth it if you do your homework.

As for your specific questions, just because a seller has 100% positive feedback doesn't mean the signature is real. Second, if the autograph is real and authenticated, it does not lower the value of the card. Especially if you are keeping them for your personal collection. I hope this helps a little bit. Good luck.
So... is there really a "guarantee" that your pack pulled autos are real? Just sayin
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
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For non pack pulled autographs, PSA/DNA is the best in the business. The statements about fake autographs have a occurred in a handful of instances, however if proven to be fake (i.e. professional forging ring) PSA/DNA will reimburse the buyers for the graded fakes in most instances.

From my experience if an autograph even looks mildly off (even if it was signed by the player), they will reject it.

As far as cracking a resealing the cases, it it quite evident if a case was tampered with and if the autograph looks fake or from a shady seller why would you buy it in the first place?

For vintage autographs they are they best option. Heck even the cuts inserted by Panini or UD come from PSA or JSA autographs to begin with.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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For non pack pulled autographs, PSA/DNA is the best in the business.
This is absolutely true. There are websites for in person autograph collectors like sportsgraphing.com and sportscollectors.net and if you head over there and ask the opinions of the people who are actually getting the autographs themselves, PSA/DNA is the authenticator of choice.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:50 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I appreciate everyone's comments back to this. I love hearing both viewpoints on this topic also. I think after hearing everyone's opinion I will definitely be open to getting some. It isn't a full proof system and errors can and will be made but they are the best are verifying for a reason and hopefully don't make many errors. Guys like pistol pete, Wilt, and Barkley are just 2 much for me to be able to stomach on a purchase unless they are psa/dna verified. I will just have to be very careful when dealing with those and make sure to do my research! It will definitely make my chase a lot more achievable also!
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:43 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sd_navarre View Post
So... is there really a "guarantee" that your pack pulled autos are real? Just sayin
No. There isn't. More than a few players have been know to have relatives sign for them. Hard signed cards are almost certainly authentic, since they are usually signed in the presence of company representatives, but sticker autos could be signed by anybody, since the companies usually mail sheets of blank stickers to athletes to sign.

In my experience, the best way to ascertain whether or not an autograph is authentic is to do your own homework by comparing it to other autographs from the same player. Successfully faking an autograph is not easy because of the muscle training required (I once tried to fake autographs of Will Clark just for fun to see how hard it would be, and could never get it right even after a week of practice), so fakes will usually have some difference from authentic autograph that is spottable with the naked eye.

Some players have been very consistent over time with their signatures (Ted Williams, Johnny Unitas, Gordie Howe, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar would be good examples), so fake signatures of theirs are easy to spot. On the other hand, some players have signatures which are all over the place (such as Joe Montana), making it much harder to tell fakes from authentic signatures.
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