Kobe = Best Laker Ever?

[strongy78]

Originally Posted by jimssouvenirs

Laker homers

If you shoot the most or 2nd most FGs in the MAJORITY of the seasons you play, of course you're going to score a ton of points.

Kobe is a great player, but him "scoring the most Laker points" or "having a ton of rings" doesn't make him a great Laker. He's the face of the franchise and has been for a while, but Magic and Kareem were better players and much less selfish. I still believe Kobe has COST the Lakers a couple of rings.

Totally agree with that. Kobes Laker teams have QUIT multiple times in playoff series. They have straight up "checked out" and quit. You think Magics Laker teams would ever pull that crap? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Magic is the greatest Laker ever by far. He did more to save basketball (him and Larry Bird) and bring it to where it is today than anyone else. Kobe just jacks up shots and "gets his". He doesnt make his teammates better either. I am a Kobe hater but facts are facts. Great scorer, yes. Top 15 player ever, yes. The most impressive thing about him is that he has played so many games. 17 years and never really missed any time. That is more impressive than the 30,000 points etc IMO. Good conditioning, great drive etc but the best Laker ever??? Nope!

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by murrke03

You can't equate Kobe's rings while being the 2nd guy with those when he was 'the man'.

Jordan was the man for ALL his titles. Kobe was not. And that needs to be factored in.

Sure he wasn't "the man" but he still played a very big role in those championships. Certainly bigger than just a role player

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

You can't equate Kobe's rings while being the 2nd guy with those when he was 'the man'.

Jordan was the man for ALL his titles. Kobe was not. And that needs to be factored in.

MJ was the man in 91 for those rings. Not 84, not 87 no 1990. In 1991.

So now we are stooping to taking away titles from Kobe because he was young and on a team with a star like Shaq in his prime.

Lets be fair here and take away MJs titles because without Pippen he could never got won a single one.

So as much as you want to give 100% credit to Shaq for those titles, Im willing to give Pippen the same amount because without him MJ gets 0 titles.

Fact remains.... KOBE played an integral role in winning those 3 rings with Shaq.

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Sure he wasn't "the man" but he still played a very big role in those championships. Certainly bigger than just a role player

Yes I agree 100 percent. But when debating the goat even a smaller factor like that needs to be taking into account.

You can't just say oh his titles are equal to Jordan's.

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

MJ was the man in 91 for those rings. Not 84, not 87 no 1990. In 1991.

So now we are stooping to taking away titles from Kobe because he was young and on a team with a star like Shaq in his prime.

Lets be fair here and take away MJs titles because without Pippen he could never got won a single one.

So as much as you want to give 100% credit to Shaq for those titles, Im willing to give Pippen the same amount because without him MJ gets 0 titles.

Fact remains.... KOBE played an integral role in winning those 3 rings with Shaq.

This is extremely stupid and dumb way of looking at it. It's really not even warranted a real response.

What you just posted doesn't make sense.

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by strongy78

Totally agree with that. Kobes Laker teams have QUIT multiple times in playoff series. They have straight up "checked out" and quit. You think Magics Laker teams would ever pull that crap? NOT EVEN CLOSE. Magic is the greatest Laker ever by far. He did more to save basketball (him and Larry Bird) and bring it to where it is today than anyone else. Kobe just jacks up shots and "gets his". He doesnt make his teammates better either. I am a Kobe hater but facts are facts. Great scorer, yes. Top 15 player ever, yes. The most impressive thing about him is that he has played so many games. 17 years and never really missed any time. That is more impressive than the 30,000 points etc IMO. Good conditioning, great drive etc but the best Laker ever??? Nope!

Oh, so now we're comparing guys like

Lamar Odom
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Kwame Brown
Andrew Bynum
Luke Walton

to guys like

James Worthy
Kareem
Byron Scott
Kurt Rambin
AC Green


yeah, ok

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Yes I agree 100 percent. But when debating the goat even a smaller factor like that needs to be taking into account.

You can't just say oh his titles are equal to Jordan's.

Why?

Jordan won his championships playing with hall of famers and guys that were legitimate stars, not just players that he made better

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Yes I agree 100 percent. But when debating the goat even a smaller factor like that needs to be taking into account.

You can't just say oh his titles are equal to Jordan's.

Should we factor in things like not being able to win a championship in the first 7yrs of your career. I mean that should play a role in being great right? I look at Magic, he won a championship quick compared to MJ. Or lets factor in that it took Lebron how long before winning one? Shouldnt get count as knock as well?

While we're at it, lets knock anyone that couldnt win one with every "Small" factor possible.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Oh, so now we're comparing guys like

Lamar Odom
Smush Parker
Chris Mihm
Kwame Brown
Andrew Bynum
Luke Walton

to guys like

James Worthy
Kareem
Byron Scott
Kurt Rambin
AC Green


yeah, ok

I think the thread has run its course. A lot of stretching and reaching going on now to discredit kobe.

It seems like every argument against kobe is now how ...

He didnt do it by himself so knock him eventhough no other player did it by themselves.

He cant be great because he is a ball hog. Because no other legend demanded the ball?

He rails on his team mates. Because no other superstar ever railed on their team mates?

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Why?

Jordan won his championships playing with hall of famers and guys that were legitimate stars, not just players that he made better

Why not?

If the guy isn't the greatest on his team how can you take those stats and compare it to the guy who was clearly the greatest in the league.

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Should we factor in things like not being able to win a championship in the first 7yrs of your career. I mean that should play a role in being great right? I look at Magic, he won a championship quick compared to MJ. Or lets factor in that it took Lebron how long before winning one? Shouldnt get count as knock as well?

While we're at it, lets knock anyone that couldnt win one with every "Small" factor possible.

Emotional much? Another grasping response.

You know what should def. be taking into account. The fact that Kobe in some of his prime years could barely get his team into the playoffs. Talk about greatness?

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Emotional much? Another grasping response.

You know what should def. be taking into account. The fact that Kobe in some of his prime years could barely get his team into the playoffs. Talk about greatness?

Dont worry its not as if

Lebron could do anything in the playoffs while on the cavs.

MJ couldnt do anything in the playoffs till Pippen came along.

Talk about a bunch of saps needed role players and all stars to get them to the promise land!!

Kobe has 5 titles and is creeping up on MJs championships and Pts. THATS A FACT!!

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

I think the thread has run its course. A lot of stretching and reaching going on now to discredit kobe.

It seems like every argument against kobe is now how ...

He didnt do it by himself so knock him eventhough no other player did it by themselves.

He cant be great because he is a ball hog. Because no other legend demanded the ball?

He rails on his team mates. Because no other superstar ever railed on their team mates?

And just one person who thinks Kobe is the GOAT. I call him a top 5-8 player all time and I am discrediting him. You're just bias. That's the only way you can say he is the GOAT.

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Dont worry its not as if

Lebron could do anything in the playoffs while on the cavs.

MJ couldnt do anything in the playoffs till Pippen came along.

Talk about a bunch of saps needed role players and all stars to get them to the promise land!!

Kobe has 5 titles and is creeping up on MJs championships and Pts. THATS A FACT!!

Robert Horry has more rings than Kobe or Jordan. Can't just judge based on titles. I also stated a fact.

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Dont worry its not as if

Lebron could do anything in the playoffs while on the cavs.

MJ couldnt do anything in the playoffs till Pippen came along.

Talk about a bunch of saps needed role players and all stars to get them to the promise land!!

Kobe has 5 titles and is creeping up on MJs championships and Pts. THATS A FACT!!

Yes it's also a fact that if shaq shot 1 three and made it he is a hundred percent foul shooter! Best ever right?

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by bdoody42

Robert Horry has more rings than Kobe or Jordan. Can't just judge based on titles. I also stated a fact.

Good then throw titles and championships out of the equation.

What next?

Want to throw out MVPS because Kareem has more than MJ?
Want to throw out total pts because Kareem has more than MJ?
Want to throw out titles because Russell has more than MJ (so does Horry)?

What else dont you want it based on? Just the facts that MJ wins ahead of the rest??

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Good then throw titles and championships out of the equation.

What next?

Want to throw out MVPS because Kareem has more than MJ?
Want to throw out total pts because Kareem has more than MJ?
Want to throw out titles because Russell has more than MJ (so does Horry)?

What else dont you want it based on? Just the facts that MJ wins ahead of the rest??

Kobe in his prime barely made the playoffs. Jordan in his prime won championships. Fact!

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Yes it's also a fact that if shaq shot 1 three and made it he is a hundred percent foul shooter! Best ever right?

Sure if you base a career over 1 shot?

How many times a career average or a season total been based on 1 shot?

Rashard lewis scored 55 pts in his first game of the season with Orlando years back. If he never played another game that year, would his season average been 55 ppg, giving him the scoring title? Im sure it wouldnt have, hence why 1 shot doesnt define a career?

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Kobe in his prime barely made the playoffs. Jordan in his prime won championships. Fact!

Ill play the silly game you are playing.

Kobe won a championship before getting into his prime. MJ couldnt do it before his prime!

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Good then throw titles and championships out of the equation.

What next?

Want to throw out MVPS because Kareem has more than MJ?
Want to throw out total pts because Kareem has more than MJ?
Want to throw out titles because Russell has more than MJ (so does Horry)?

What else dont you want it based on? Just the facts that MJ wins ahead of the rest??

I didn't say Jordan was the best all time. I said I was taking an example of a player who has a much better argument than Kobe for being the best ever. You argued Kobe was the best ever in the second post of this thread and that's an opinion that nearly no one who isn't biased has. I argued your point that's all. Now you change the subject. Something screams of defeat and being bias....

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Ill play the silly game you are playing.

Kobe won a championship before getting into his prime. MJ couldnt do it before his prime!

Did Jordan play with one of the most dominate players ever? Or even a player better then him?

You just made my point genius. Thanks!

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Did Jordan play with one of the most dominate players ever? Or even a player better then him?

You just made my point genius. Thanks!

MJ played with a top 50 greatest player of all time and possible the best wingman ever in a tandem in Scottie Pippen.

MJ played with probably the best rebounder of all time in NBA history in Dennis Rodman!

Wade didnt have Shaq?
Lebron didnt have Wade and Bosh?

Thanks for making that clear for us. That every championship winner had someone help them win!!!

So much recycling. NO SINGLE PLAYER HAS WON A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT HIS TEAM MATES.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by bdoody42

I didn't say Jordan was the best all time. I said I was taking an example of a player who has a much better argument than Kobe for being the best ever. You argued Kobe was the best ever in the second post of this thread and that's an opinion that nearly no one who isn't biased has. I argued your point that's all. Now you change the subject. Something screams of defeat and being bias....

Yes because my opinion is that Kobe is the GOAT. WHy cant you just live with it. If you said MJ was the GOAT or Kareem, or wilt or Magic was the GOAT, id accept it as your opinion !

Just cant understand why my opinion on who is the best upsets you soo much?

If I said Orange was the best colour in the world instead of blue, would you argue that as well?

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

MJ played with a top 50 greatest player of all time and possible the best wingman ever in a tandem in Scottie Pippen.

MJ played with probably the best rebounder of all time in NBA history in Dennis Rodman!

Wade didnt have Shaq?
Lebron didnt have Wade and Bosh?

Thanks for making that clear for us. That every championship winner had someone help them win!!!

So much recycling. NO SINGLE PLAYER HAS WON A CHAMPIONSHIP WITHOUT HIS TEAM MATES.

thats not what i was arguing nor what i said. way to try and change the subject.

once again thanks for proving my point!

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

thats not what i was arguing nor what i said. way to try and change the subject.

once again thanks for proving my point!

Originally Posted by murrke03

Did Jordan play with one of the most dominate players ever? Or even a player better then him?

You just made my point genius. Thanks!

Then who did MJ play with? Name them peppy!

Sure you didnt. Back peddle. You were trying to prove that Kobe needed shaw, but you got caught red handed because every other player needed another player as well. So how does that make kobe any different?

Busted!

And on that point, its done as its pretty clear you are trying to flame on this topic by saying something, then saying you never said it.

You pulled this same stunt the Rondo thread. Good try!! All you are doing is looking for a flame war. You wont get one from me.