Kobe = Best Laker Ever?

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

No because thats his opinion. I couldnt give two squirts one way or the other. I have no issues with other people choosing player X. YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ME CHOOSING KOBE.

You're what's wrong with irrational fans.... People who can't think clearly are what give some teams fans bad names.

[thepinoymamba]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

You agreed to the statement made by Tristan that you question 3 rings that Kobe has. You back peddling on supporting his theory that 3 of Kobes rings shouldnt count? LOL. Because I know Tristan said that for Sh!ts and giggles!! lol

Game 4 Lakers vs Pacers shaq fouled out.
Kobe simply said after missing game 3 ankle injury the Lakers lost game 3 without Kobe.

So Kobe Said when Shaw was fouled out. " I got this big fella"
Kobe took over won game 4....
Lakers win... shaq can't win without Kobe and wade.

[murrke03]

Kobe had trouble making the playoffs without other stars. Lol

[tristan20]

Originally Posted by thepinoymamba

Game 4 Lakers vs Pacers shaq fouled out.
Kobe simply said after missing game 3 ankle injury the Lakers lost game 3 without Kobe.

So Kobe Said when Shaw was fouled out. " I got this big fella"
Kobe took over won game 4....
Lakers win... shaq can't win without Kobe and wade.

Amazing when Shaq left he was the one that won a ring right after.
Shaq in his prime was unstoppable, end of story

When he left a team that team would drop off the the following year

[Kosmo Kards]

The players Kobe had weren't very good. Odom was the second best player Kobe had. Shaq had Wade who was amazing in the three home games in the Finals and they also had a really good bench. Kobe didn't have that. Shaq was never clutch when the Lakers needed him. I remember the Spurs in 98-99 western conference finals shut down Shaq, I remember them blowing a 3-1 lead against Portland and losing games 5 and 6 because of Shaq and should have lost game 7 if it weren't for Portland's 4th quarter collapse. That's the Shaq I remember. He was even more criticized than LeBron is now and now everybody is now saying how unstoppable Shaq was in his prime. Please. I see all these all time lists now that have Shaq at the seventh or eight greatest player of all time. All these players are better than Shaq:

Hakeem Olajuwon
Davin Robinson
Tim Duncan
Kevin Garnett
Karl Malone
Charles Barkely
Scottie Pippin
Dennis Rodman

I would even consider Ewing and Mourning over Shaq if I'm being honest.

[murrke03]

Dennis rodman is better then shaq?

Yikes. Enough said...

[murrke03]

We all know what Lebron did with crappy teammates. So maybe the question should be if Kobe is even as good as Lebron. Haha

[Kosmo Kards]

Dennis Rodman was the greatest re-bounder ever and the best defender at the PF position ever IMO. You know that guy who plays way too hard every single play when you play a pickup game at the Y, that player was Dennis Rodman. There are people out there who say Shaq was a great defender, how many all-NBA first defensive teams did Shaq make? Zero.

I'm still not sure where I would rank LeBorn yet though. Guy is a physical freak of nature but not a good shooter. I'm not sure where to rank LeBron. Do you think Duncan is better than Shaq?

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Kosmo Kards

Dennis Rodman was the greatest re-bounder ever and the best defender at the PF position ever IMO. You know that guy who plays way too hard every single play when you play a pickup game at the Y, that player was Dennis Rodman. There are people out there who say Shaq was a great defender, how many all-NBA first defensive teams did Shaq make? Zero.

I'm still not sure where I would rank LeBorn yet though. Guy is a physical freak of nature but not a good shooter. I'm not sure where to rank LeBron. Do you think Duncan is better than Shaq?

so great defender terrible on offense vs. very good defender and great on offense...

hmmmm and you pick option one?

[Kosmo Kards]

Shaq wasn't that good of a defender and great on offense, that's stretching it a little bit. Rodman was not a good offensive player at all, very true, but all Shaq did was post up and dunk of people because he was so much bigger than everybody else. If either one of us was 7'1" and 330 lbs. we would have been good at basketball as well. I appreciate real talent and players that actually had talent. However, omit Dennis Rodman from that list, do you thing those players are better than Shaq?

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Kosmo Kards

Shaq wasn't that good of a defender and great on offense, that's stretching it a little bit. Rodman was not a good offensive player at all, very true, but all Shaq did was post up and dunk of people because he was so much bigger than everybody else. If either one of us was 7'1" and 330 lbs. we would have been good at basketball as well. I appreciate real talent and players that actually had talent. However, omit Dennis Rodman from that list, do you thing those players are better than Shaq?

and this is why you are wrong...

[Burt-Reynolds]

Originally Posted by murrke03

We all know what Lebron did with crappy teammates. So maybe the question should be if Kobe is even as good as Lebron. Haha

really? the year lebron took the cavs to the finals the entire eastern conference was a joke, and you saw what happened when they had to face a real team like the spurs. they got swept out like garbage. the series wasn't even close. kobe carried a laker team with a way worse supporting cast than lebron had into the playoffs in a absolutely loaded and dangerous western conference. if kobe and the lakers played in the east that year he would of easily taken them to the finals like lebron with the same results in the finals, and lebron would of had the same results in the west a 1st round exit. lebron benefited greatly from playing in the eastern conference his entire cavs career. i would of liked to see how much success he would of had having to play almost every night in the western conference during those years.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by murrke03

We all know what Lebron did with crappy teammates. So maybe the question should be if Kobe is even as good as Lebron. Haha

Yea we all know. He didnt win!

Again circling back, many people were knocking Kobe for losing in the playoffs. So does MJ or Lebron losing in the playoffs hinder their greatness? Sure did for kobe haters. Another double standard.

In order to snake out of this situation, MJ nutters will then close then focus on a minor viewpoint where MJ can win and change it to, MJ never lost in the "FINALS" matchup, narrowing the debate because its the "ONLY" place MJ can win in a debate.

SO then the question becomes, does losing in the "FINALS" take away from Lebron as people have discredited kobe for losing at that point.

Better question becomes, do you tarnish every player that lost in the finals and a knock against their legacy?

[murrke03]

yeah the cavs had a horrible season record...

kobe by himself on the lakers was a disaster... please don't try to act like it wasn't.

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Yea we all know. He didnt win!

Again circling back, many people were knocking Kobe for losing in the playoffs. So does MJ or Lebron losing in the playoffs hinder their greatness? Sure did for kobe haters. Another double standard.

In order to snake out of this situation, MJ nutters will then close then focus on a minor viewpoint where MJ can win and change it to, MJ never lost in the "FINALS" matchup, narrowing the debate because its the "ONLY" place MJ can win in a debate.

SO then the question becomes, does losing in the "FINALS" take away from Lebron as people have discredited kobe for losing at that point.

Better question becomes, do you tarnish every player that lost in the finals and a knock against their legacy?

Jordan can only win a debate because of that one point? You have to know that's false. I am pretty sure there are some other factors. Reaching again....struggling....failing.

[Burt-Reynolds]

Originally Posted by murrke03

yeah the cavs had a horrible season record...

kobe by himself on the lakers was a disaster... please don't try to act like it wasn't.

please. you don't think the lakers team that year would of been 7-10 wins better in the east and the cavs 7-10 wins worse in the west? look at the rosters and tell me lebron didn't have way better teamamtes than kobe that year. the eastern conference has been a joke until the last few years where it is now starting to balance out with the west. i mean did you even watch basketball 6-7 years ago? i know lebron and bosh only came to miami 2 years ago so i'm not sure, plus you constantly display the mental acuity of a 13 yr old. so who knows?

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by bdoody42

Jordan can only win a debate because of that one point? You have to know that's false. I am pretty sure there are some other factors. Reaching again....struggling....failing.

Jordan never failed in the playoffs?

[Kosmo Kards]

I know people say that there were other centers that were 7' tall that didn't do anything. Shawn Bradley and Hasheem Thabet (if that's how you spell it) pop out, but they were all very scrawny. They didn't have that extra 75-80 lbs. that Shaq had. I really wanna know if people think that Shaq is the 7th greatest player of all time. It blows my mind that Shaq is ranked ahead of so many other players that could make a shot further than 2-3 feet from the basket.

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by Burt-Reynolds

please. you don't think the lakers team that year would of been 7-10 wins better in the east and the cavs 7-10 wins worse in the west? look at the rosters and tell me lebron didn't have way better teamamtes than kobe that year. the eastern conference has been a joke until the last few years where it is now starting to balance out with the west. i mean did you even watch basketball 6-7 years ago? i know lebron and bosh only came to miami 2 years ago so i'm not sure, plus you constantly display the mental acuity of a 13 yr old. so who knows?

oh does someone feel threatened that they need to start name calling????? lol.

tough guy rolling through!

lebrons supporting cast was terrible and guess what they had amazing regular season records (which by the way isn't against all eastern conference teams genius) and great playoff runs

[Anthony K.]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

So when MJ is not #1, it becomes a combination of things. But if MJ is #1 for the category, he is the winner.

This isnt a popularity contest. MJ wins by a landslide if this is a popularity contest. As far as IM concerned this thread has run its course when you needed to justify my opinion with a social backing of other members.

You keep knocking kobe, while the rest of keep celebrating his amazing feats. Not good way to live your life to put hatred first before enjoyment.

Go tell russell that him having more rings makes him less than MJ because "its a combo of things" or go tell Kareem "Your MVPS makes him less than MJ because its not about MVPs, but a combo of thing.". and the best one... Wait for it.....

"MJ is better than X because he is #1 in the category, and being the top dog in there makes you the legit best. But only if you're MJ, no one else!!"

Bill Russell has stated in the past that Jordan is the greatest player of all time, so I don't think he cares if people regard him higher.

Russell cared about winning and making others around him better.

As for Kareem, he views Wilt Chamberlain as the greatest player and scorer of all time.

I personally view Kobe as the third best guard of all time, right behing Magic and Jordan. Can he one day be the greatest guard and/or player of all time? Maybe he will be, but he isn't yet.

[Burt-Reynolds]

Originally Posted by murrke03

oh does someone feel threatened that they need to start name calling????? lol.

tough guy rolling through!

lebrons supporting cast was terrible and guess what they had amazing regular season records (which by the way isn't against all eastern conference teams genius) and great playoff runs

they were 8 wins better than the lakers that year, and yes it does matter a LOT when you play 75% of your schedule against the east. cavs would not have been a 50 win team is the west that year and that's a fact. it's not hard to figure out. there were 3 teams in the west with 50 win records and 2 with 60 wins in the 06-07 nba season, and only 2 50 win teams the east that year. you're gonna tell me that the west wasn't head and shoulders superior that year. cavs would not have put up a 50 win season in the west that year, and the lakers would of been a 50 win team in the east that year. not so sure what's so hard to understand.

[murrke03]

in 04-05 the lakers were 34-48 and didn't make playoffs. kobe had a supporting cast of butler odom

in 05-06 they were 45-37 and lost in the first round. kobe had supporting cast of bynum odom smush (haha)

in 06 - 07 they wre 42-40 and lost in the first round. kobe had supporting cast of basically the same people

in 07-08 after bring in gasol and fisher they go to the nba finals...

lebron (as a 2nd year player) in 04-05 was 42 - 40 with no playoffs. his supporting cast was ilgauskas... oh and dajaun wagner.

in 05-06 they were 50-32 and made it to second round. his supporting cast was ilaguaskas and drew gooden and larry hughes

in 06-07 they were 50-32 and made it to the finals. his supporting cast was ilgauskas and boobie gibson

in 07-08 they were 45-37 and made it to the second round. his supporting cast was ilgauskas, boobie and ancient ben wallace

in 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the eastern conference finals. his supporting cast was ilguaskas boobie and MO WILLIAMS!

should i keep going?

lebron did not have a better supporting cast. if anything he had a worse and for a lot longer.

you can go harp on the "oh the west is soooo hard" crap. but thats just another weak excuse.

[Anthony K.]

Originally Posted by Kosmo Kards

Dennis Rodman was the greatest re-bounder ever and the best defender at the PF position ever IMO. You know that guy who plays way too hard every single play when you play a pickup game at the Y, that player was Dennis Rodman. There are people out there who say Shaq was a great defender, how many all-NBA first defensive teams did Shaq make? Zero.

I'm still not sure where I would rank LeBorn yet though. Guy is a physical freak of nature but not a good shooter. I'm not sure where to rank LeBron. Do you think Duncan is better than Shaq?

Rodman is ONE of the best rebounders of all time and on the short list of greatest PF defenders of all time (I'd take Kevin McHale, personally).

Though tHe question isn't posed at me, I think Duncan is better than Shaq (I am guessing you do as well).

[bdoody42]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Jordan never failed in the playoffs?

I am pretty sure no player won every time they played in the playoffs. Just please make me a case for Kobe over Jordan. I got a feeling this will never happen but be utterly amusing.

[Kosmo Kards]

I forget about McKale to be honest with you. He was a very underrated player.

LeBron and Kobe both had poor supporting casts in those years. LeBron is a tough player for me to figure out. Sometimes I watch him and I truly am amazed. Other times I think he is overrated. If he could shoot he would be better than Jordan IMO, I really believe that. He has his haters out there now though.