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Old 12-09-2012, 09:55 PM   #351 (permalink)
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in 04-05 the lakers were 34-48 and didn't make playoffs. kobe had a supporting cast of butler odom

in 05-06 they were 45-37 and lost in the first round. kobe had supporting cast of bynum odom smush (haha)

in 06 - 07 they wre 42-40 and lost in the first round. kobe had supporting cast of basically the same people

in 07-08 after bring in gasol and fisher they go to the nba finals...

lebron (as a 2nd year player) in 04-05 was 42 - 40 with no playoffs. his supporting cast was ilgauskas... oh and dajaun wagner.

in 05-06 they were 50-32 and made it to second round. his supporting cast was ilaguaskas and drew gooden and larry hughes

in 06-07 they were 50-32 and made it to the finals. his supporting cast was ilgauskas and boobie gibson

in 07-08 they were 45-37 and made it to the second round. his supporting cast was ilgauskas, boobie and ancient ben wallace

in 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the eastern conference finals. his supporting cast was ilguaskas boobie and MO WILLIAMS!

should i keep going?

lebron did not have a better supporting cast. if anything he had a worse and for a lot longer.

you can go harp on the "oh the west is soooo hard" crap. but thats just another weak excuse.
really was just arguing the 06-07 season since that is what you were talking about in the original post i replied to you about.

but hey thanks for posting all of this and making it easy and proving my point even more. all those players you mentioned playing with lebron are heads and shoulders above the players kobe had before the gasol trade. smush, kwame, a young raw bynum. don't know why you made such a big fuss when it's obvious by the facts you put in this post you agree with me, and yes conference does matter, it's not a excuse when all the elite teams were in the west those years. the east was garbage. thanks and good day.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:57 PM   #352 (permalink)
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Also, Duncan always get so verlooked because he is so quiet and most people think he is "dull." Duncan is top 10 easy and probably the best PF of all-time.

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:59 PM   #353 (permalink)
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I am pretty sure no player won every time they played in the playoffs. Just please make me a case for Kobe over Jordan. I got a feeling this will never happen but be utterly amusing.
You are the one knocking for losing in the playoffs. But now when I tell you MJ lost in the playoffs, you longer use it as an advantage for MJ?

Its starting to get old now.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:59 PM   #354 (permalink)
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really was just arguing the 06-07 season since that is what you were talking about in the original post i replied to you about.

but hey thanks for posting all of this and making it easy and proving my point even more. all those players you mentioned playing with lebron are heads and shoulders above the players kobe had before the gasol trade. smush, kwame, a young raw bynum. don't know why you made such a big fuss when it's obvious by the facts you put in this post you agree with me, and yes conference does matter, it's not a excuse when all the elite teams were in the west those years. the east was garbage. thanks and good day.
LOL

old ilgauskas and boobie gibson are ahead of Lamar Odom.

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Old 12-09-2012, 10:01 PM   #355 (permalink)
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in 04-05 the lakers were 34-48 and didn't make playoffs. kobe had a supporting cast of butler odom

in 05-06 they were 45-37 and lost in the first round. kobe had supporting cast of bynum odom smush (haha)

in 06 - 07 they wre 42-40 and lost in the first round. kobe had supporting cast of basically the same people

in 07-08 after bring in gasol and fisher they go to the nba finals...

lebron (as a 2nd year player) in 04-05 was 42 - 40 with no playoffs. his supporting cast was ilgauskas... oh and dajaun wagner.

in 05-06 they were 50-32 and made it to second round. his supporting cast was ilaguaskas and drew gooden and larry hughes

in 06-07 they were 50-32 and made it to the finals. his supporting cast was ilgauskas and boobie gibson

in 07-08 they were 45-37 and made it to the second round. his supporting cast was ilgauskas, boobie and ancient ben wallace

in 08-09 they were 66-16 and made it to the eastern conference finals. his supporting cast was ilguaskas boobie and MO WILLIAMS!

should i keep going?

lebron did not have a better supporting cast. if anything he had a worse and for a lot longer.

you can go harp on the "oh the west is soooo hard" crap. but thats just another weak excuse.

Odom and Smush are not positives for the lakers. You consider them elite players? LOL Bynum never contributed on the lakers.

Plus how can you forget how competitive the west was compared to the boring west?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:01 PM   #356 (permalink)
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Also, Duncan always get soverlooked because he is so quiet and most people think he is "dull." Duncan is top 10 easy and probably the best PF of all-time.
Agreed on both fronts.

He is probably the 8th best player of all time, in my opinion. To be playing as we'll this season after he was discounted last year and said to be "losing it, showing his age", etc., is simply fantastic.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:09 PM   #357 (permalink)
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LOL

old ilgauskas and boobie gibson are ahead of Lamar Odom.

What are you drinking tonight? hahahahhahahahah best thing i've heard allnight
Lamar Odom was a much larger contributor than you are giving him. He averaged a 14/9/4 line, played great as a 6th man the last three seasons as a Laker, could play a little defense and carry the offense for stretches at a time.

Odom and Z were pretty equal contributors to their teams, as they were 2nd options to the stars of said teams, but Gibson was average to terrible the whole time he was in Cleveland.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:10 PM   #358 (permalink)
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take 06-07. kobe had odom and bynum. had a 42-40 record and lost in first round to the suns.

lebron had ilgauskas and boobie. had a record of 50-32 and made it to the finals.

oh so between odom and bynum and ilgauskas and boobie? whos better? thats right odom and bynum

ok lets just blame the record thing on the east vs. the west thing: lets call it a draw

now to the playoffs. lakers lost to a suns team 4-1 who then lost in the next round 4-2 to the spurs

the cavs beat two 'weak' east teams in the first two round and then beat a team that won the nba finals, made it to the nba finals, made it to the eastern conference finals the previous three years.

so which player had a better year with there 'crappy' team?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:10 PM   #359 (permalink)
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Odom and Smush are not positives for the lakers. You consider them elite players? LOL Bynum never contributed on the lakers.

Plus how can you forget how competitive the west was compared to the boring west?
yes half the eastern conference would make the playoffs with sub .500 records in those years, while half the western conference playoff teams had 50+ win records. kobe would have at least 3 mvp awards by now if he played in the east those years.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:11 PM   #360 (permalink)
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Lamar Odom was a much larger contributor than you are giving him. He averaged a 14/9/4 line, played great as a 6th man the last three seasons as a Laker, could play a little defense and carry the offense for stretches at a time.

Odom and Z were pretty equal contributors to their teams, as they were 2nd options to the stars of said teams, but Gibson was average to terrible the whole time he was in Cleveland.
yeah thats what im arguing.

although i would say odom is greater then z and i agree boobie was just crap. and that was lebrons third best player on his team for like 5 years.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:25 PM   #361 (permalink)
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take 06-07. kobe had odom and bynum. had a 42-40 record and lost in first round to the suns.

lebron had ilgauskas and boobie. had a record of 50-32 and made it to the finals.

oh so between odom and bynum and ilgauskas and boobie? whos better? thats right odom and bynum

ok lets just blame the record thing on the east vs. the west thing: lets call it a draw

now to the playoffs. lakers lost to a suns team 4-1 who then lost in the next round 4-2 to the spurs

the cavs best two 'weak' east teams in the first two round and then beat a team that won the nba finals, made it to the nba finals, made it to the eastern conference finals the previous three years.

so which player had a better year with there 'crappy' team?
drew averaged 8 and 6 that season as a starter and played 82 games, big z averaged 12 and 8 in 78 games, so easy call there. you also convieniently forget to mention the cavs also had hughes and gooden who started 70 or more games and averaged double digit points that season. not even sure why you bring up booby, he was a non factor that season averaging 4.6 a game. pavlovic averaged 9 a game that season too.

now the lakers. lamar only played in 56 games that year and averaged 16 a game. next best player who played more than 60 games that year was smush at a 11 point average, everyone else averaged less than 10 a game.

so not sure what point you're trying to make. the lakers were by far a worse team and still made the playoffs in a ridiculous western conference, wher lebron had a better team and made it to the finals against a vastly inferior eastern conference. anything else?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:27 PM   #362 (permalink)
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yeah thats what im arguing.

although i would say odom is greater then z and i agree boobie was just crap. and that was lebrons third best player on his team for like 5 years.
Got it, I think I may have misread then

There is a lot of blatant homerism and idiocy in this thread, but any time MJ, LeBron and/or Kobe's names are brought up, that is to be expected.

The argument for GOAT is like an argument of religion or politics:shout as you may, but you will NEVER change another's mind/opinion.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:31 PM   #363 (permalink)
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Got it, I think I may have misread then

There is a lot of blatant homerism and idiocy in this thread, but any time MJ, LeBron and/or Kobe's names are brought up, that is to be expected.

The argument for GOAT is like an argument of religion or politics:shout as you may, but you will NEVER change another's mind/opinion.
That is true look at orangejello. Look up homerism and his face is right beside it.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:34 PM   #364 (permalink)
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drew averaged 8 and 6 that season as a starter and played 82 games, big z averaged 12 and 8 in 78 games, so easy call there. you also convieniently forget to mention the cavs also had hughes and gooden who started 70 or more games and averaged double digit points that season. not even sure why you bring up booby, he was a non factor that season averaging 4.6 a game. pavlovic averaged 9 a game that season too.

now the lakers. lamar only played in 56 games that year and averaged 16 a game. next best player who played more than 60 games that year was smush at a 11 point average, everyone else averaged less than 10 a game.

so not sure what point you're trying to make. the lakers were by far a worse team and still made the playoffs in a ridiculous western conference, wher lebron had a better team and made it to the finals against a vastly inferior eastern conference. anything else?
wrong.....
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:38 PM   #365 (permalink)
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wrong.....
lmfao, nice one word answer. the number one choice for people who are frustrated when they are proven wrong with crazy things like stats, facts, and common sense. yeah i known it's hard to grasp all this so i'll leave you alone for a little while now. sorry to make your head hurt.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #366 (permalink)
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You are the one knocking for losing in the playoffs. But now when I tell you MJ lost in the playoffs, you longer use it as an advantage for MJ?

Its starting to get old now.
You can keep your "opinion" I wouldn't want it anyways.

Kobe had all time greats like Shaq,Malone, Payton and couldn't win....Jordan never had a team that was considered head and shoulders above the competition and lost. Kobe and that crew lost to a starless Pistons team.

Please tell me when the Bulls lost with a superior team?

I am sure you will find some way to wiggle and weasel around this also, so I guess I wasted my time.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:43 PM   #367 (permalink)
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wrong.....
Actually, the Lakers WERE a worse team.

The Cavaliers were one of the best defensive teams in the league. The Lakers were TERRIBLE on the defensive end. The Lakers were a good offensive team, but Cleveland was pretty decent on offense, especially on the offensive glass, where they lead te league in offensive rebounds and offensive rebound percentage. The Lakers were terrible rebounders and were below average in both protecting the ball and forcing turnovers.

Overall, the Cavaliers WERE the better team and beat the Lakers in both match ups that season.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:45 PM   #368 (permalink)
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lmfao, nice one word answer. the number one choice for people who are frustrated when they are proven wrong with crazy things like stats, facts, and common sense. yeah i known it's hard to grasp all this so i'll leave you alone for a little while now. sorry to make your head hurt.
Burt I see. Your from Los Angeles... Are you a Laker fan? I was wondering who you think is the GOAT? Kobe? Jordan? Someone else?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:49 PM   #369 (permalink)
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odom averaged 16 pts and 10 reb
walton averaged 11.5 pts
smush avearaged 11 pts
evans and brown each averaged 8.5
bynum averaged 8 and 6
cook averaged 7.

hughes averaged 15
ilgauskas averaged 12 and 8
gooden averaged 11
pavolovic 9
marshal 7
varejao 7

so each team had three other players that averaged over 10 (you lied above but its okay)

which team had the best number 2 player? yup the lakers with odom. odom was far greater then any of the other players on either team.

the cavs DID NOT have a FAR BETTER TEAM. So when I said "wrong" I was right!
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:50 PM   #370 (permalink)
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Actually, the Lakers WERE a worse team.

The Cavaliers were one of the best defensive teams in the league. The Lakers were TERRIBLE on the defensive end. The Lakers were a good offensive team, but Cleveland was pretty decent on offense, especially on the offensive glass, where they lead te league in offensive rebounds and offensive rebound percentage. The Lakers were terrible rebounders and were below average in both protecting the ball and forcing turnovers.

Overall, the Cavaliers WERE the better team and beat the Lakers in both match ups that season.
we aren't talking about 'team' we are talking about supporting cast. when getting into 'team' that 'team greatness' is heavily influenced by the main man (lebron or kobe). and as you pointed out the cavs were a 'better team' and my point is that is because lebron took a crappy team and made them good. kobe took a crappy team and made them okay.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:52 PM   #371 (permalink)
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Burt I see. Your from Los Angeles... Are you a Laker fan? I was wondering who you think is the GOAT? Kobe? Jordan? Someone else?
obviously i'm a huge laker and kobe fan. jordan 1, kobe 2 but not far behind imo.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:53 PM   #372 (permalink)
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odom averaged 16 pts and 10 reb
walton averaged 11.5 pts
smush avearaged 11 pts
evans and brown each averaged 8.5
bynum averaged 8 and 6
cook averaged 7.

hughes averaged 15
ilgauskas averaged 12 and 8
gooden averaged 11
pavolovic 9
marshal 7
varejao 7

so each team had three other players that averaged over 10 (you lied above but its okay)

which team had the best number 2 player? yup the lakers with odom. odom was far greater then any of the other players on either team.

the cavs DID NOT have a FAR BETTER TEAM. So when I said "wrong" I was right!
You quoted player PPG, yet I already said the Lakers were a better, albeit slightly, offensive team.

Scoring points is only one facet of the game and the best scoring team in the league isn't always the best team in the game.

Look at all stats from that season and it proves the Cavs team was better. The were good enough to beat the Lakers BOTH times they played them, regardless of who had the 2nd best player in their team.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:56 PM   #373 (permalink)
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You quoted player PPG, yet I already said the Lakers were a better, albeit slightly, offensive team.

Scoring points is only one facet of the game and the best scoring team in the league isn't always the best team in the game.

Look at all stats from that season and it proves the Cavs team was better. The were good enough to beat the Lakers BOTH times they played them, regardless of who had the 2nd best player in their team.
WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUPPORTING CAST!

not what 'team' ended up being better.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:01 PM   #374 (permalink)
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odom averaged 16 pts and 10 reb
walton averaged 11.5 pts
smush avearaged 11 pts
evans and brown each averaged 8.5
bynum averaged 8 and 6
cook averaged 7.

hughes averaged 15
ilgauskas averaged 12 and 8
gooden averaged 11
pavolovic 9
marshal 7
varejao 7

so each team had three other players that averaged over 10 (you lied above but its okay)

which team had the best number 2 player? yup the lakers with odom. odom was far greater then any of the other players on either team.

the cavs DID NOT have a FAR BETTER TEAM. So when I said "wrong" I was right!
dude there must be something wrong with you. go back and read my post, because your reading comprehension is clearly terrible. i said players who played more than 60 games. way to just generalize the laker averages. odom missed almost half the season so that average is inflated, so he wasn't there to "support" kobe most games. walton played 60 games and is well luke walton. smush started 82 and averaged 11 pts. i watched every game that season and it was kobe on a island by himself almost every night because he had no choice, and no one he could trust to help.

big z, gooden, and hughes all played 70 or more games so clearly they offered more support than any laker you listed. hell pavlovic would of been the 3rd best player on the lakers that year and probably would have started. not sure why you keep trying to argue when you are just flat out wrong. you are the only one that thinks the lakers were better than the cavs that year.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:04 PM   #375 (permalink)
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WE ARE TALKING ABOUT SUPPORTING CAST!

not what 'team' ended up being better.
Kobe had better offensive supporting cast, LeBron had a better defensive supporting cast.

Arguing their individual accomplishments is rather ridiculous, since a great team on paper can perform crappy on the court (or field, see Lions, Detroit).

I won't argue that Odom was the better 2nd banana, but the supporting cast for each is pretty close.

Your argument has gotten pretty thin, trying to say that just because Odom was the third best player amongst the two teams, so that swings it the Lakers way.
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