Blowout Cards Forums
New Categories

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASKETBALL

BASKETBALL Post your Basketball Cards Hobby Talk

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-07-2012, 06:43 PM   #176 (permalink)
Member
 
MikeMamba's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,017
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC View Post
...and Bill Russell wasn't a great offensive player and yet still won 11 championship rings.

You're arguing yourself into a corner again.



I've watched pretty much all the existing footage of Bill Russell playing basketball. I have spent a small fortune purchasing rare Bill Russell footage, game film, interviews, magazines, articles, newspapers and so on.

Not sure what else I can do to have an informed opinion on the man.
But offense doesn't define championships right? All about that defense...
"Russell won games (and championships) because of his off-the-charts defense, rebounding, teamplay and leadership"

I'm not discrediting him, simply said "IF he played in today's NBA, he would not have 11 titles and would not be a HOF'er."
Just playing the IF game.
__________________
Ed Davis!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ed Davis PC --> http://s1154.photobucket.com/albums/p525/MikeMamba/Ed%20Davis%20PC/
MikeMamba is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 06:47 PM   #177 (permalink)
Member
 
WillC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMamba View Post
But offense doesn't define championships right? All about that defense...
"Russell won games (and championships) because of his off-the-charts defense, rebounding, teamplay and leadership"
I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make; you need both offense and defense to win championships. It's rare to win with just one rather than the other. Meanwhile, to win 11 championships, you clearly need to be proficient at both. Russell wasn't an elite scorer, but he wasn't a liability either, clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeMamba View Post
I'm not discrediting him, simply said "IF he played in today's NBA, he would not have 11 titles and would not be a HOF'er."
Just playing the IF game.
You are 100% discrediting him. That's precisely what you're doing. You have gone out of your way to say that he played against smaller centers (which is incorrect) and belittled his FG% while suggesting that he wouldn't be a superstar in today's NBA.

Well, likewise, there's no way of knowing how Michael Jordan, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James might perform in the NBA in 2060.

All you can do is beat the players put in front of you.

Bill Russell did that better than anyone, ever.
WillC is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:02 PM   #178 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
Its pretty simple when you take a players over all career accomplishment into factor. Are you suggesting that Kobe was riding the coat tail of Shaq when he won 2 more rings without him? lol
Only you in your little world would think I was suggesting that. Lol what's a stupid question.
murrke03 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:11 PM   #179 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 793
Default

I've posted and read way too much about this on Realgm to get too into where kobe ranks all time. Personally I put him in the 7-10 and I'm a huge laker fan. Kobe has managed to sustain a pretty high peak for long period of time, while most others don't have longevity Kobe did but had periods of dominance exceeding kobe's best imo.


To me Kobe is tied with magic for the best Laker ever. I am not talking about player dominance, because when it comes to that it's clear to me that KAJ surpassed KB and most likely Magic, but as far as taking everything in as a whole it's Kobe and Magic, and to be honest I don't think you can choose one over the other.

Simply put, argueably KAJ's best years weren't even on the lakers, nor did he ever have the wide appeal of either Magic nor Kobe, not that he cared too. When I think Lakers I instantly think Kobe and Magic, KAJ and Shaq are secondary and I think that's part of what defines "the greatest ever" of a franchise.
mrlaker is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:15 PM   #180 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Who else remembers how average the lakers were after shaq left and it was just Kobe?

Goat lol
murrke03 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:18 PM   #181 (permalink)
Member
 
WillC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 7,193
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlaker View Post
I've posted and read way too much about this on Realgm to get too into where kobe ranks all time. Personally I put him in the 7-10 and I'm a huge laker fan. Kobe has managed to sustain a pretty high peak for long period of time, while most others don't have longevity Kobe did but had periods of dominance exceeding kobe's best imo.


To me Kobe is tied with magic for the best Laker ever. I am not talking about player dominance, because when it comes to that it's clear to me that KAJ surpassed KB and most likely Magic, but as far as taking everything in as a whole it's Kobe and Magic, and to be honest I don't think you can choose one over the other.

Simply put, argueably KAJ's best years weren't even on the lakers, nor did he ever have the wide appeal of either Magic nor Kobe, not that he cared too. When I think Lakers I instantly think Kobe and Magic, KAJ and Shaq are secondary and I think that's part of what defines "the greatest ever" of a franchise.
Voice of reason.
WillC is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:40 PM   #182 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,307
Default

Orangejello has left after many people have discredited his opinion along with MikeMambas opinion.

No one argued Kobe is great, just obviously not the GOAT in anyway!
__________________
Current deals- none sadly.
bdoody42 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #183 (permalink)
Member
 
Kosmo Kards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Passed out in the Circus Liquor parking lot!!!!
Posts: 2,061
Default

Love Kobe, my favorite player and top 5 in my book but not greatest Laker of all time.

Top 5 all time:

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Russell
Kobe
__________________
The internet isn't for me.
Kosmo Kards is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 08:10 PM   #184 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmo Kards View Post
Love Kobe, my favorite player and top 5 in my book but not greatest Laker of all time.

Top 5 all time:

Jordan
Magic
Kareem
Russell
Kobe
Loving a non bias fan
__________________
Current deals- none sadly.
bdoody42 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 08:40 PM   #185 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 12,477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoody42 View Post
Orangejello has left after many people have discredited his opinion along with MikeMambas opinion.

No one argued Kobe is great, just obviously not the GOAT in anyway!
No one left. Some of us have lives. That includes a 3 hr commute home on a friday night.

How do you discredit an opinion? I think blue is the best colour. You going to trying and discredit that as well Einstein?
Orangejello727 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 08:44 PM   #186 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
No one left. Some of us have lives. That includes a 3 hr commute home on a friday night.

How do you discredit an opinion? I think blue is the best colour. You going to trying and discredit that as well Einstein?
Just showing off a narrow mind with commons like that.
__________________
Current deals- none sadly.
bdoody42 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 08:48 PM   #187 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoody42 View Post
Just showing off a narrow mind with commons like that.
If I say all women belong in a kitchen and shouldn't have rights, that is also an opinion. I dont have the before mentioned opinion btw, Obviously it is a ridiculous opinion..... Like saying Kobe is the GOAT.
__________________
Current deals- none sadly.
bdoody42 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 08:59 PM   #188 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Lucky for oj he can't be proved 100% wrong in this case because it deals with opinions.

That is why he hasn't dipped yet. hahahahha
murrke03 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:02 PM   #189 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Sent using US Airways WiFi
Posts: 15,565
Default

If you say Kobe is the best laker ever, you're wrong. Magic/Kareem is.
If you say he isn't, you're wrong. He is.

Moral: Don't post on the Internet.
sunsfan8 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #190 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
Lucky for oj he can't be proved 100% wrong in this case because it deals with opinions.

That is why he hasn't dipped yet. hahahahha
He has to know he is wrong.
__________________
Current deals- none sadly.
bdoody42 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:07 PM   #191 (permalink)
Member
 
kobemagee29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: rockford
Posts: 2,290
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tristan20 View Post
Magic is the best Laker ever IMO
totally disagree
kobemagee29 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:20 PM   #192 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,448
Default

To the guy posting about how Magic won 5 titles in 13 years and kobe won 5 in 16 years. how is that a huge factor?

Being an elite player is about winning and playing great. Magic won the same as Kobe, but Kobe was/is able to stay a dominating player much longer than Magic.

Are you telling me a guy who win 3 championships that plays only 5 years is better than a guy who wins 3 championships, but plays 18 years and is a great player throughout?

Longevity is underratted in my opinion. There are lots of players that were elite for a period of time, but not many who sustained that.

Allen Iverson (a former MVP) came out the same year as Kobe and was an amazing player for 12 or so seasons, Kobe is in his 17th season and still one of the best in the game. Surely that means something
1eyed_jack is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:23 PM   #193 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack View Post
To the guy posting about how Magic won 5 titles in 13 years and kobe won 5 in 16 years. how is that a huge factor?

Being an elite player is about winning and playing great. Magic won the same as Kobe, but Kobe was/is able to stay a dominating player much longer than Magic.

Are you telling me a guy who win 3 championships that plays only 5 years is better than a guy who wins 3 championships, but plays 18 years and is a great player throughout?

Longevity is underratted in my opinion. There are lots of players that were elite for a period of time, but not many who sustained that.

Allen Iverson (a former MVP) came out the same year as Kobe and was an amazing player for 12 or so seasons, Kobe is in his 17th season and still one of the best in the game. Surely that means something
i think you are also underrating the effects of HIV...
murrke03 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:26 PM   #194 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
i think you are also underrating the effects of HIV...
I'm not, I'm not trying to be harsh, but you can't really take that into account. I look at it like a player whose career was cut short by injuries
1eyed_jack is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:28 PM   #195 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack View Post
I'm not, I'm not trying to be harsh, but you can't really take that into account. I look at it like a player whose career was cut short by injuries
i understand that and what you mean and I agree longevity is overlooked. but in the case of magic vs. kobe to say magic wasn't as great a player as kobe because of longevity is a little wrong/misinformed in my opinion.
murrke03 is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:31 PM   #196 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,448
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
i understand that and what you mean and I agree longevity is overlooked. but in the case of magic vs. kobe to say magic wasn't as great a player as kobe because of longevity is a little wrong/misinformed in my opinion.
Why though? I'm honestly asking.

I mean say Magic didn't get HIV, but rather broke his leg in a motorcycle accident, would you feel differently?
1eyed_jack is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:38 PM   #197 (permalink)
Member
 
freethrowtommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 22,333
Default

Kobe is not greater than Magic or Kareem...
__________________
Jordy Nelson PC: http://tinyurl.com/nelson87
Aaron Rodgers PC: http://tinyurl.com/rodgers12
"I would agree with you, but then we would both be wrong"
freethrowtommy is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 09:59 PM   #198 (permalink)
Member
 
IamRalpho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Boston
Posts: 11,806
Default

All I read that was insane was the clown who said Magic was over blown because he got Aids.

Probably one of the worst, and the stupidest and ill informed things I have ever read on the interweb and that says a lot.
IamRalpho is offline  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:02 PM   #199 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Maine
Posts: 5,307
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamRalpho View Post
All I read that was insane was the clown who said Magic was over blown because he got Aids.

Probably one of the worst, and the stupidest and ill informed things I have ever read on the interweb and that says a lot.
Lol that was the low point of the thread lol.
__________________
Current deals- none sadly.
bdoody42 is online now  
Old 12-07-2012, 10:03 PM   #200 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdoody42 View Post
Lol that was the low point of the thread lol.
he never replied to my ask for cold hard proof.

i mean he said it was a 'fact' that he faked it.

crazy people on the internet
murrke03 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.