Panini Basketball is Out of Control, COMPLETE Garbage and I will no...

[tingyangs6]

Plain and simple. DON'T BUY THIS GARBAGE! No value at all. Some sets are cool like private signings, black & blue sigs, NT RPA, but majority are trash. Absolute is total trash this year. Never bought a box from panini rather just buy certain singles on ebay.

[Sauceman]

Its sad how badly this company is ripping us off. The fun of the hobby for me is dying slowly, as bad as I want it to continue. It is very frustrating how they are manipulating all of us. "So dont buy it" is something I dont want to hear. I love collecting, and busting wax, but its getting to the point where it is just insulting.

[wilsunshines]

Biggest problem is that last year they basically took the year off from basketball. What were they doing during that time?? Come on. Now it's a new, mediocre product every week. Wouldn't everyone rather have 1 good product every month or 6 weeks? I mean, there's not even time for all the cards from one product to become available as singles before the next hits--consumers aren't even able to digest one before the next is here. And they have the monopoly, so they're just stepping on their own toes! I honestly can't figure out the strategy here. It's certainly not profit maximization (or if it is, lord knows they need a new business manager).

[oldgoldy97]

Wow. How funny is this! Total bashing in this thread and nothing but Panini defenders in the other one.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by dasiegel

I don't wanna say I told ya so (not directed at OP) but I told people Prizm would be good, TC would be good (debatable) and now it is essentially time to wait til NT comes out unless you get bored and just wanna go bust some random wax. Not a single case should be purchased though!!!

In what way was prizm good?

It sucks- two $1 autos and no gold prizm in each box on average.

They could've done it so much better with more serial numbered inserts/parallels.

If prizm is considered good, the basketball card market has truly fallen to the bottom of the ocean. That, or Bk collectors standards have been flushed down the toilet.

[BoxBreaker72]

Panini is the single reason why I stopped busting at the rate I was a few years back. They have all but killed the hobby IMO with garbage products.

[dreamweaver1984]

how many threads

[thecomebacker]

Originally Posted by dreamweaver1984

how many threads

NOT enough!

[boombaby_rm31]

man, TT used to be decent.. with all those logomans!

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by boombaby_rm31

man, TT used to be decent.. with all those logomans!

Yeah, the first year of it was so exciting! Logoman and tags, some nice quad jerseys, a good product. Fast forward to now and it's.......

[camoutwest]

Hey all. Read everyday but never post. I thought i'd say my feelings about Panini's basketball takeover. The problem I have had with Panini's way of out bidding Topps and others for the basketball license, is this has caused so many more low tier auto's and relics to exist in their products. Topps would call them 'Fan Favorites', Panini calls them 'Elusive Ink' and ect... When Panini overbids for the exclusive, we as consumers/collectors get stuck paying for it. Bottom line is they do this to make money. So how do you make a profit without changing the formulas of every Panini release (print runs and the general DNA of each product)? All while still purchasing autographs, jerseys/relics, and on top of that paying more for the exclusive license. The answer is paying less for the 'Hits'. You can print more of the product to increase the revenue, but you still need more hits to distribute in the extra product. Kobe, Durant, and other exclusives are probably not going to lower their autograph fees to help Panini out in driving profits. So Panini go's out and finds signers that keep the bottom line down, and maintain hit distribution. My example of personal recent Panini pulls of these type guys include Bill Wennington, Dee Brown, and Allan Houston. Fun names but probably have a special place in someone elses collection (Fan Favorites right?). I've seen people mad at Topps for not getting more aggressive in obtaining basketball again, but I applaude them. As a business they had to of looked at the cost involved in producing their products with the added costs of licensing, and decided it wasn't a feasable proposition for the Topps Company (feedback) or consumers/collectors (perception value of what was opened). Very shrewed move on Panini's part in landing the exclusive, but I have felt we as collectors are being handed the short end of the stick in this situation. Watered down auto's, no rookies in 2011-12 products, identicle repeat designs, and terrible retail correlation are some of my dislikes. Prizm is a great success, but it's whole design and basic formula is based off of another companys very successful design. Will admit, this is Panini's first retail release that I have ever wanted to wipe out a whole retail box all by myself. So I have hope for improved 'perceived value' within their products, but the high cost of gaining the exclusive isn't going away any time soon with the contract being extended several more years. So anyways thats my thought in why we get alot of fluff autos in our basketball products these days. Good day all, and may the mojo Gods be with you all while busting! Cam

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by camoutwest

Hey all. Read everyday but never post. I thought i'd say my feelings about Panini's basketball takeover. The problem I have had with Panini's way of out bidding Topps and others for the basketball license, is this has caused so many more low tier auto's and relics to exist in their products. Topps would call them 'Fan Favorites', Panini calls them 'Elusive Ink' and ect... When Panini overbids for the exclusive, we as consumers/collectors get stuck paying for it. Bottom line is they do this to make money. So how do you make a profit without changing the formulas of every Panini release (print runs and the general DNA of each product)? All while still purchasing autographs, jerseys/relics, and on top of that paying more for the exclusive license. The answer is paying less for the 'Hits'. You can print more of the product to increase the revenue, but you still need more hits to distribute in the extra product. Kobe, Durant, and other exclusives are probably not going to lower their autograph fees to help Panini out in driving profits. So Panini go's out and finds signers that keep the bottom line down, and maintain hit distribution. My example of personal recent Panini pulls of these type guys include Bill Wennington, Dee Brown, and Allan Houston. Fun names but probably have a special place in someone elses collection (Fan Favorites right?). I've seen people mad at Topps for not getting more aggressive in obtaining basketball again, but I applaude them. As a business they had to of looked at the cost involved in producing their products with the added costs of licensing, and decided it wasn't a feasable proposition for the Topps Company (feedback) or consumers/collectors (perception value of what was opened). Very shrewed move on Panini's part in landing the exclusive, but I have felt we as collectors are being handed the short end of the stick in this situation. Watered down auto's, no rookies in 2011-12 products, identicle repeat designs, and terrible retail correlation are some of my dislikes. Prizm is a great success, but it's whole design and basic formula is based off of another companys very successful design. Will admit, this is Panini's first retail release that I have ever wanted to wipe out a whole retail box all by myself. So I have hope for improved 'perceived value' within their products, but the high cost of gaining the exclusive isn't going away any time soon with the contract being extended several more years. So anyways thats my thought in why we get alot of fluff autos in our basketball products these days. Good day all, and may the mojo Gods be with you all while busting! Cam

Just an FYI. Panini didnt outbid anyone for the NBA licence.

UD didnt have enough money and was being sued for not paying its debts
Topps chose not to even bid as exclusive player contracts gave them no chance and making a buck.

Panini took the exclusive contract because the other 2 bailed on the hobby more so than being outbid. You cant outbid a company that has no money and another company that straight up doesnt want to come back!!

[teambutterfield]

Absolute has a set called "Iconic" auto. Can someone tell me how BRANDON BASS is iconic? Please......

[hche]

Originally Posted by teambutterfield

Absolute has a set called "Iconic" auto. Can someone tell me how BRANDON BASS is iconic? Please......

In additiona, they have Hakeem Warrick, Chase Budinger, Aaron Brooks, Mario Chalmers, Boris Diaw, Kendrick Perkins, DeAndre Jordan, Rodrigue Beaubois, Jeff Teague, Marcin Gortat, Carl Landry, Goran Dragic, etc... If I am not mistaken, I think combined they have 0 all star appearce? So Iconic.

[SocraticGoat777]

Timesless treasures look like crap. Lets face it, its about Prizm, and totally certified.

[Orangejello727]

Skip the middle products. Just open low and high end. Mid season products are just fillers in my opinion. That iconic list of autos is worse than weak lol

[benshobbies]

Why do we need two threads on this? If you don't like a product why don't you just stick to singles. All products can't be winners and all aren't. Buying cards is a gamble in a way because you don't know what is inside the packs. You got what was promised on the outside of the box, right? So you should be happy with it and move on. If you don't like the value a certain product provides, don't buy it!

You don't have to bust everything these card companies put out. You also don't have to feel to be a slave to have all the cards from all the products. I've made more money by being picky and choosey about which products to open. Most boxes only have a 50% ROI on them. Not every box has a Kobe or a Lebron auto in it or they wouldn't be valuable.

Correction a negative 50% roi on them.

[sals_cardz]

Originally Posted by hche

In additiona, they have Hakeem Warrick, Chase Budinger, Aaron Brooks, Mario Chalmers, Boris Diaw, Kendrick Perkins, DeAndre Jordan, Rodrigue Beaubois, Jeff Teague, Marcin Gortat, Carl Landry, Goran Dragic, etc... If I am not mistaken, I think combined they have 0 all star appearce? So Iconic.

thats such an iconic list omg, wow. lol so many icons. lol

[jj2]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

They could've done it so much better with more serial numbered inserts/parallels.

The fact that Prizm doesn't have a hundred different parallels, numbered cards and inserts is partly what makes it so popular. Perhaps the only thing I'd add to the set would be a 1/1 parallel and perhaps a gold signature parallel.

Prizm has a really nice looking base set, a few inserts, autographs and some relatively tough to pull prizms and gold parallels. Exactly what people have been wanting for a long time.

[jj2]

Originally Posted by sals_cardz

thats such an iconic list omg, wow. lol so many icons. lol

It's a shame because the cards themselves do look nice.

[pigeonsbaseball]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

In what way was prizm good?

It sucks- two $1 autos and no gold prizm in each box on average.

They could've done it so much better with more serial numbered inserts/parallels.

If prizm is considered good, the basketball card market has truly fallen to the bottom of the ocean. That, or Bk collectors standards have been flushed down the toilet.

OK so there is a ZERO gold prizm per box average? So that means that there is no golds per box. This was hobby right?

Lay out your case breaks for us. I'm just having a hard time seeing 0 golds per box and average $1 auto's. so please give us some stats.

How many cases of Prizm have you broken?
How many golds / prizms did you and who did you get?
Who were the auto's that you got?

Really looking forward to seeing your breaks because they are not even close to what I've seen broken so far....

[camoutwest]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Just an FYI. Panini didnt outbid anyone for the NBA licence.

UD didnt have enough money and was being sued for not paying its debts
Topps chose not to even bid as exclusive player contracts gave them no chance and making a buck.

Panini took the exclusive contract because the other 2 bailed on the hobby more so than being outbid. You cant outbid a company that has no money and another company that straight up doesnt want to come back!!

Thanks for the insight Orange! UD was def broke, but Topps certainly had a chance. Panini was new and trying to make an instint impact and name for itself, and went 'all in' on the basketball deal.
All speculation, but I would have to believe the NBA asked all parties to submit bids with some sort of review period after to see if anyone was willing to budge from their original bid. As I said, I'd rather Topps dipped in favor of knowing it would be tough to give collector-happy products, while still creating products for profit.
This was Topps statement then:
“We’ve had a strong relationship with the NBA, but the deal they made with Panini does not make economic sense for Topps,” said Topps in a statement. “It may be great for the NBA, but the value wasn’t there for us and we’ve decided to invest elsewhere for the time being. We wish our colleagues at the NBA well and look forward to working with them in the future.”
The thread is about garbage coming out out Panini basketball cases. I just feel the added garbage comes down to the price paid, which always gets passed to consumers one way or another. Topps backed out, but I'd rather miss a brand by them, than regret most every box opened by the competitor. I opened plenty of 2009-11 Panini products, and these didn't have much of those 80's-90's players autos in them. But the last couple years have been terrible for this stuff from what i've seen. Just an opinion, nothing more Will always love cards, no matter who creates them! Cam

[pingbling23]

ofcourse it wasnt feasible for topps, they knew kobe was going to sign with panini and ud has jordan and lebron locked up. without the top 3 players, it wouldnt make sense for them to be in the game.

[1eyed_jack]

Yeah! Screw Panini! Never going to buy from them again, they make horrible cards, recycle designs, have crappy players autographs in their sets. They are such a joke taking advantage of collectors like they do by producing garbage and selling it to people. Can't believe they are even still in business, by far the worst company out there ever. I could probably do a better job designing cards than they do! Man they are such a joke!

...unless of course they produce a set I can profit from, then I'll BUY BUY BUY!

[Onofrio]

Panini I have been studying.... Realistically, feel free to buy retail boxes as your hits, one that count, are better than the hobby at this time. Hobby is just telling you your going to get so and so hits, but with the doubling up of the rookies and the crap drawing cards and foil cards, they have killed the hobby box as bad as the Topps trademark moves release 5 years ago.

I will not buy this product anymore in hobby, spend half the amount, find retail or blaster boxes next year at a real low price and buy it up. Now your going to at least maybe enjoy something about the product.

I busted a case of 12-13 Certified and to be honest, I lost 1400.00+ on that bust. RUBBISH cards and the quality was half of what the same set was back in 10-11.

Panini cant even get players from last years draft who did not even get a cup of coffee in the NBA to sign the cards, so a lot of the redemptions will either never show or trickle in. Best bet, wait a year, ask for replacement and it should be better than a player sitting in some YMCA gym waiting for a pickup game.

The best bet this year is Prizm.... All the rest, rubbish

Panini is a marketing company, they are no longer a card company.... Its too bad!