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Old 01-09-2013, 10:49 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
How is that anymore far fetched than calling Candy man and Bibby a Legend only 1 yr into the league? Justify that?

/end thread. You and I both know Bibby and Candy man should not be considered "Legends" in 1999. Agree or Disagree? The answer will put this to a rest.
I agree they are not legends because they did nothing much in NBA.

I disagree that they are in the checklist. They are in the list because they are top 1 and top 2 picks. UD would even put anyone called John Smith, and Average Joe in the list as long as they are top 2 picks.
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:57 PM   #102 (permalink)
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MJ
Russell
Bird,
Jabbar
Iverson,
Robertson,
West,
Cousy,
Baylor,
Pettit,
Havlicek,
Lanier,
Cowens,
English,
Drexler,
Thompson,
Monroe,
Unseld,
Lucas,
Gervin
Hayes,
Frazier,
Walton,
Reed,
Malone,
Archibald,
Hardaway,
Bibby,
Sharman
Olowokandi.

Really dont fit in that checklist. If anything they were thrown in so that new collectors would buy a legends product if anything. But noway in hell they belong on that checklist
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:57 PM   #103 (permalink)
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UD Black was the best stuff!

99% of the breaks were happy and sick cards came out from UD Black.

What were your pulls? Do you bust panini stuff?

I would like to know the guys that praise Panini so much, how many of them do cases breaks?
UD Black is still my favorite product to bust to date
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Old 01-09-2013, 10:58 PM   #104 (permalink)
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OK so there is a ZERO gold prizm per box average? So that means that there is no golds per box. This was hobby right?

Lay out your case breaks for us. I'm just having a hard time seeing 0 golds per box and average $1 auto's. so please give us some stats.

How many cases of Prizm have you broken?
How many golds / prizms did you and who did you get?
Who were the auto's that you got?

Really looking forward to seeing your breaks because they are not even close to what I've seen broken so far....
I haven't opened any cases cause I don't like Panini BK products in general.

My friend pulled zero golds in his case, his only "group A" auto was a Kobe, after the break, he said he felt like he was prizm-raped.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:00 PM   #105 (permalink)
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I haven't opened any cases cause I don't like Panini BK products in general.

My friend pulled zero golds in his case, his only "group A" auto was a Kobe, after the break, he said he felt like he was prizm-raped.
We pulled 15 in 5 cases and 3...yes 3 golds in one pack!

Check out recent case breaks in the Break section. Sure seems like there are more than 1 or 2 gold per case on average.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:03 PM   #106 (permalink)
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People used to bash me for constantly posting negatively about Panini. I lost THOUSANDS on their products. Now people are finally starting to see what is going on. Im not sure why it has taken so long. Whats just as bad is watching that piece of trash Hackler lie cheat and deceive Panini buyers. Its like watching a cheap infomercial
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:07 PM   #107 (permalink)
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We pulled 15 in 5 cases and 3...yes 3 golds in one pack!

Check out recent case breaks in the Break section. Sure seems like there are more than 1 or 2 gold per case on average.
Yah, but the break sections always show the best 1% of breaks out there.

For every 1 kobe gold prizm that is miraculously pulled on the boards, there are 220 other common golds worth $15-$20 apiece pulled by folks who don't bother posting them up because they've lost their hide on their box/case breaks.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:08 PM   #108 (permalink)
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People used to bash me for constantly posting negatively about Panini. I lost THOUSANDS on their products. Now people are finally starting to see what is going on. Im not sure why it has taken so long. Whats just as bad is watching that piece of trash Hackler lie cheat and deceive Panini buyers. Its like watching a cheap infomercial
Honestly, I know I'm defending Panini a bit here, but I'm not blindly a fan of Panini.

I am curious though, what has Hackler lied about?
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:18 PM   #109 (permalink)
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Think of it this way, UD products you had the chance to hit big, with Panini not so much.

END OF STORY

Before you even open a case of Panini, you know you are going to lose no matter what.

Most people that bust cases do it for the "BIG PULL", its ridiculous to think otherwise.

Almost 90% of box breaks and case breaks of Panini products start with "HORRIBLE" or "OUCH"
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:23 PM   #110 (permalink)
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Yah, but the break sections always show the best 1% of breaks out there.

For every 1 kobe gold prizm that is miraculously pulled on the boards, there are 220 other common golds worth $15-$20 apiece pulled by folks who don't bother posting them up because they've lost their hide on their box/case breaks.
Just how many UD boxes yield a MJ or Lebron auto on average in the 00s at $100/box?
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 PM   #111 (permalink)
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Honestly, I know I'm defending Panini a bit here, but I'm not blindly a fan of Panini.

I am curious though, what has Hackler lied about?
Insertion rates, autos being on-card that were not etc. Plus Id say 99% of what he says in his mock ups is false. The guy is pathetic and takes collectors to be complete idiots between his videos and everything he types
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:24 PM   #112 (permalink)
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They have sucessfully killed so many products this year. Abs, limited, timeless, all these good old time names. I hope Classics wont be that bad. They do a double rookie class but instead of concentrating more on the top tier rookies (hey! they have 2 years of them!), they put /399 autos of guys that are in DLeague now. Sigh.
There's a Panini Classics this year?
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:26 PM   #113 (permalink)
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Insertion rates, autos being on-card that were not etc. Plus Id say 99% of what he says in his mock ups is false. The guy is pathetic and takes collectors to be complete idiots between his videos and everything he types
I guess when UD sent the Exquisite football box to beckett for a live break, it wasnt a loaded set up box either? Hackler is a joke. But just as much of a joke as UD and their fraudster ways!!
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:28 PM   #114 (permalink)
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Just how many UD boxes yield a MJ or Lebron auto on average in the 00s at $100/box?
Just how many Panini cases in any of their product this year (or any year, for that matter) can yield a $10,000 card? How about $10,000 worth of cards in any entire case of Panini product?

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Old 01-09-2013, 11:42 PM   #115 (permalink)
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Just how many Panini cases in any of their product this year (or any year, for that matter) can yield a $10,000 card? How about $10,000 worth of cards in any entire case of Panini product?
None. Outside of the absurd exquisite GOD following can you name a UD product that can garner a $10k card in the past 3 yrs? Dont give me any excuses on 2003 because it has had a decade to hype it.

But I can sit here and tell you a $5/pack product by fleer put out a $100k card in a pmg green. Could UD do that with a $5/pack?

Therefore Fleer must have been better than UD correct?

Way to sum up a race between UD vs Panini based on 1 product. Im in hopes the death of UD finally kills off the money hungry mongers left in the hobby that poach on collectors by bilking them of money using their fake hype. UD created these monsters that ruined the hobby. Lets hope they take them with them once they are gone for good.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:50 PM   #116 (permalink)
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None. Outside of the absurd exquisite GOD following can you name a UD product that can garner a $10k card in the past 3 yrs? Dont give me any excuses on 2003 because it has had a decade to hype it.

But I can sit here and tell you a $5/pack product by fleer put out a $100k card in a pmg green. Could UD do that with a $5/pack?

Therefore Fleer must have been better than UD correct?

Way to sum up a race between UD vs Panini based on 1 product. Im in hopes the death of UD finally kills off the money hungry mongers left in the hobby that poach on collectors by bilking them of money using their fake hype. UD created these monsters that ruined the hobby. Lets hope they take them with them once they are gone for good.
PMG Green Jordans sold for over 10k and all without an NBA license.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:53 PM   #117 (permalink)
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Just how many Panini cases in any of their product this year (or any year, for that matter) can yield a $10,000 card? How about $10,000 worth of cards in any entire case of Panini product?
In fairness, prices are created by buyers. By us, basically.

And people sit here and bash Panini and praise Upper Deck.

So what happens? Upper Deck puts out a retro product with PMGs which people pay insane amounts for even the ones out of /50

Panini puts out a great chrome product and someone buys a gold Kobe /10 and people say at $400 he paid too much for it haha.

As you can see now though Prizm is taking off and the gold stars are selling for up to $3,000.
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:53 PM   #118 (permalink)
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Why do we need two threads on this? If you don't like a product why don't you just stick to singles. All products can't be winners and all aren't. Buying cards is a gamble in a way because you don't know what is inside the packs. You got what was promised on the outside of the box, right? So you should be happy with it and move on. If you don't like the value a certain product provides, don't buy it!

You don't have to bust everything these card companies put out. You also don't have to feel to be a slave to have all the cards from all the products. I've made more money by being picky and choosey about which products to open. Most boxes only have a 50% ROI on them. Not every box has a Kobe or a Lebron auto in it or they wouldn't be valuable.

Correction a negative 50% roi on them.
There's nothing more I dislike when a football/baseball guy ventures over to our hobby and forum and tells us to quit b*tchin. They just don't understand.. just don't understand..
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:54 PM   #119 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta View Post
Just how many Panini cases in any of their product this year (or any year, for that matter) can yield a $10,000 card? How about $10,000 worth of cards in any entire case of Panini product?
Well the National Treasures logoman RC auto of Griffin is one rare example...
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Old 01-09-2013, 11:58 PM   #120 (permalink)
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EXACTLY!!!!

It is nothing to do with personal opinions of the designs anymore! It is all about 'return on investment'.


In one thread, you see people post that David Lee is one of the best PF's at this very moment, then in another you see someone complain that the auto of him they pulled is a 'scrub auto'!

Or that James Harden is the next 'best SG in the league' but his cards are not enough to be the hit of a box???

It is the collectors that are ruining the value in the boxes!
I want you to point out where in this forum someone has pointed out David Lee in a recent product and called him a scrub.. Same goes for James Harden..

Matter of fact, busting, especially basketball, has ALWAYS been this way. Generally, collectors pick out singles and investors buy cases, and it will always stay this way. So, the consumer has been the same way for decades; so what's caused all of this commotion and complaints? The product..
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:22 AM   #121 (permalink)
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Well the National Treasures logoman RC auto of Griffin is one rare example...
That was the only one I could think of.
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:31 AM   #122 (permalink)
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None. Outside of the absurd exquisite GOD following can you name a UD product that can garner a $10k card in the past 3 yrs? Dont give me any excuses on 2003 because it has had a decade to hype it.

But I can sit here and tell you a $5/pack product by fleer put out a $100k card in a pmg green. Could UD do that with a $5/pack?

Therefore Fleer must have been better than UD correct?

Way to sum up a race between UD vs Panini based on 1 product. Im in hopes the death of UD finally kills off the money hungry mongers left in the hobby that poach on collectors by bilking them of money using their fake hype. UD created these monsters that ruined the hobby. Lets hope they take them with them once they are gone for good.
Those $5 packs of fleer are no longer $5 a pack, they're more like $400 a box.

You could pull a $35,000 jordan all star auto out of a $3 pack of 1997-8 upper deck series 2.

And it's funny you use the term "fake hype", whatever happened to that great panini certified green run last year? Have those boxes doubled in price yet since those greens are the next pmg greens? Are those singles selling like hotcakes? What happens to this year's gold prizms when next year they have red prizms/5 and superfractor prizms/1 and black prizms/1 and orange prizms/25?
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Old 01-10-2013, 12:37 AM   #123 (permalink)
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This is what happen when there is no competition around. And i think we are also the one to blame because we still keep on breaking case after case of their products.
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:21 AM   #124 (permalink)
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They should put Brandon Bass and all the other scrubs in NT Springfield Bound as well too! haha
That would be a sick set. Imagine guys like Bo Outlaw.... wow. How about nicknames for bench players. Steve Kerr, MJ saved my career....
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Old 01-10-2013, 01:42 AM   #125 (permalink)
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What really make Panini suck donkey ass is their MAPP price point. Most of their products are really worth 50-65 a box but they are charging 100 of the bat.

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