Panini Basketball is Out of Control, COMPLETE Garbage and I will no...

[mcgahee21nfl]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

My list is probably larger than yours for Panini and smaller than yours for UD lol.

NT Logoman
NT RPA
Certified PRA Blue/Green - overhyped nonsense
NT Notable Nickname Autos
Preferred Sillouettes Prime
NT Legends patchs
NT Legends Auto
NT Penpal Autos
NT base plantinum /1, /5 and /10
Black box 6 way autos
Black box triple patches
GS Solid Golds
GS Black gold patches Prime
Prizm Golds
Prizm Green
Prizm Ref /Auto
Prizm USA

These are all sets I love and would chase but just out of my budget. Seems like people favor UD or Panini. Thats their choice. But you cant say there isnt any quality coming out of Panini. Ill admit there is garbage coming out Panini. But can you admit UD had just as much garbage coming out of UD as well? It was just overshadowed with a chance to hit an MJ or Lebron auto if anything!!

I highlighted the only Panini ones I really agree with. With Upper Deck, all of their high end products were great. I love almost everything from Exquisite, sans a few things like the buyback rookie auto triples. Ultimate, SP Authentic, all we classic as can be with Logomen, patch auto rookies & just about every year SOTT was outstanding. The list really goes on & on.

As much as I loved UD products, and still wish they would come back, UD as a company was about as unbearable as it gets. I won't overlook the problems with Panini & Tracy, but its really no comparison to the legitimacy of the two companies thus far.

Can we all agree to start calling Panini, TEAM BECKETT?

-- also

Absolute Patches, Leaf limited patches, 1st day signatures or whatever they were called out of leaf limited a few years ago were great.

[NJNets24]

Originally Posted by xavieronly1

Panini's Choice Awards from Preferred is the same copay from 1997 Pacific Cramer's Choice. I don't see one post here that people say about panini being the copycat. So, it is not about favourism on UD but not on Panini..

Topps, UD and Fleer all did a lot of retro sets before. It is nothing new for card companies to recycle their own classic designs. But the scale/volume of UD did to Fleer Retro is much higher than other previous retro design.

People say Panini recycle designs and everything looks the same (which I agree with btw). But UD and Topps did the same thing. They recycle designs as well. People bring up Retro as how UD had success making a product. And I said that it was not only a recycle, it also had stickers. You see what I'm saying?

On a serious note, if Panini put out Retro, with the huge list of stickers, don't you think that product would have caused a riot? I'm saying the exact product, college unis and all. If Panini put that out, how many of you would be saying that's a great product? Very few, because all you would complain about is the stickers and how the PMG's are just not the same.

[SPauthentic84]

Originally Posted by NJNets24

People say Panini recycle designs and everything looks the same (which I agree with btw). But UD and Topps did the same thing. They recycle designs as well. People bring up Retro as how UD had success making a product. And I said that it was not only a recycle, it also had stickers. You see what I'm saying?

On a serious note, if Panini put out Retro, with the huge list of stickers, don't you think that product would have caused a riot? I'm saying the exact product, college unis and all. If Panini put that out, how many of you would be saying that's a great product? Very few, because all you would complain about is the stickers and how the PMG's are just not the same.

I agree with you...

I think the only reason people didnt complain about the autos in Retro and was a huge success was because of the quality of the inserts.

I dont see too many people complaining about Prizm because Panini did a real nice job with them. I am one of the most critical of Panini, but they did a nice job with this set.

At the end of the day, collectors just want quality. It doesnt matter from where

[xavieronly1]

Originally Posted by NJNets24

People say Panini recycle designs and everything looks the same (which I agree with btw). But UD and Topps did the same thing. They recycle designs as well. People bring up Retro as how UD had success making a product. And I said that it was not only a recycle, it also had stickers. You see what I'm saying?

On a serious note, if Panini put out Retro, with the huge list of stickers, don't you think that product would have caused a riot? I'm saying the exact product, college unis and all. If Panini put that out, how many of you would be saying that's a great product? Very few, because all you would complain about is the stickers and how the PMG's are just not the same.

No. I think, in general, people are fair in makng comment. Look at Prizm. People are saying this is successful as well, and the autos are sticker. The chase card is gold prizm, not these autos. People "ignore" or make less comments on these stickers.

However, when the product chase card is jus a sticker auto (or bad design card), at least for me, that is what I am not happy about.

[NJNets24]

Originally Posted by SPauthentic84

I agree with you...

I think the only reason people didnt complain about the autos in Retro and was a huge success was because of the quality of the inserts.

I dont see too many people complaining about Prizm because Panini did a real nice job with them. I am one of the most critical of Panini, but they did a nice job with this set.

At the end of the day, collectors just want quality. It doesnt matter from where

I agree with a lot of the points people make about Panini. But a lot of it is taken too far. People nitpick about everything Panini puts out, when UD and Topps both put out quality and terrible products. People nitpicked then as well, but now it seems they forgot about that.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by mcgahee21nfl

I highlighted the only Panini ones I really agree with. With Upper Deck, all of their high end products were great. I love almost everything from Exquisite, sans a few things like the buyback rookie auto triples. Ultimate, SP Authentic, all we classic as can be with Logomen, patch auto rookies & just about every year SOTT was outstanding. The list really goes on & on.

As much as I loved UD products, and still wish they would come back, UD as a company was about as unbearable as it gets. I won't overlook the problems with Panini & Tracy, but its really no comparison to the legitimacy of the two companies thus far.

Can we all agree to start calling Panini, TEAM BECKETT?

-- also

Absolute Patches, Leaf limited patches, 1st day signatures or whatever they were called out of leaf limited a few years ago were great.

My point from the very beginning has been that everyone has their personal taste. I think UD did a crap job on most products yet people loved it. Thats personal taste. Today Panini does a crap job on most products and yet people love it.

You have your UD lovers and then you have your Panini lovers. Same goes for the haters (in the sense of not liking product/design etc). Nothing has really changed. Just seems like UD supporters are much louder and more disgruntled!

Im not a fan of Keith and Tracy. These guys are the old beckett goons. Having them within card companies doesnt make it any better. The hobby management in general needs a refresh. Out with the old and in with the new!

[xavieronly1]

Originally Posted by NJNets24

I agree with a lot of the points people make about Panini. But a lot of it is taken too far. People nitpick about everything Panini puts out, when UD and Topps both put out quality and terrible products. People nitpicked then as well, but now it seems they forgot about that.

When we only have Panini in the game, the options are "buy Panini" or "don't buy". When we have Topps and UD, you have 3 options "Buy Topps", "buy UD", "don't buy". I just feel that the "don't buy" group increases due to monolopy from NBA license.

[mcgahee21nfl]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

My point from the very beginning has been that everyone has their personal taste. I think UD did a crap job on most products yet people loved it. Thats personal taste. Today Panini does a crap job on most products and yet people love it.

You have your UD lovers and then you have your Panini lovers. Same goes for the haters (in the sense of not liking product/design etc). Nothing has really changed. Just seems like UD supporters are much louder and more disgruntled!

Im not a fan of Keith and Tracy. These guys are the old beckett goons. Having them within card companies doesnt make it any better. The hobby management in general needs a refresh. Out with the old and in with the new!

It seems you are confusing things, though. Just because someone likes or dislikes a particular product, doesn't mean thats how they view the company. I don't know many people that aren't UD lovers from a design standpoint, you are actually the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but I know tons who think they absolutely suck as a company and make gorgeous cards.

The opposite is usually true of Panini. Many of the people who hate the products actually have no personal beef with the company itself. I do, you do, people who remember the failings of Tracy do, but it makes up a very small percentage of hobbyists.

Your love/hate designations seem completely misguided.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by mcgahee21nfl

It seems you are confusing things, though. Just because someone likes or dislikes a particular product, doesn't mean thats how they view the company. I don't know many people that aren't UD lovers from a design standpoint, you are actually the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but I know tons who think they absolutely suck as a company and make gorgeous cards.

The opposite is usually true of Panini. Many of the people who hate the products actually have no personal beef with the company itself. I do, you do, people who remember the failings of Tracy do, but it makes up a very small percentage of hobbyists.

Your love/hate designations seem completely misguided.

It would seem that way if you didnt ignore the fact that the hate for todays cards comes from not having UD. If you notice the dislike for Panini cards (forget the company) it almost always relates back to not having UD cards around. UD cards were like a drug these people. You take it away and they crave more. THey dont care what else is available, they just want UD period. Nothing else matters. Thats how I see it. Thats my take on it.

I came to this conclusion from reading posts from people who dislike even popular Panini cards. They are popular but they still hate it? Personal opinion sure. But then when you couple that with the UD ONLY mentaltity it starts to make sense.

Design standpoint is a personal subjective taste. Earlier I ripped off a list of Panini cards I like and you agreed with only a few. Its an opinion at that. I have no issues with design. My skeptisism is with blind liking. Ferrari puts out some beautifully designed cars. But they have the odd ugly one that shows up, but youll have people still praise its beauty because its Ferrrari. I see that with select people and UD here. You could put out a bunk version of 1994 UD CC (ugly design) and these people will go ga ga over it because its UD and nothing more.

Company aside, I still believe every company from Panini, Topps UD and fleer, they all put out some great designs and ugly ones. Just seems like Panini designs are the only ones that get dogged. Maybe that has more to do with them being the only player but that doesnt excuse the fact that all of them are still at fault for putting out garbage during their term.

[mcgahee21nfl]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

It would seem that way if you didnt ignore the fact that the hate for todays cards comes from not having UD. If you notice the dislike for Panini cards (forget the company) it almost always relates back to not having UD cards around. UD cards were like a drug these people. You take it away and they crave more. THey dont care what else is available, they just want UD period. Nothing else matters. Thats how I see it. Thats my take on it.

I came to this conclusion from reading posts from people who dislike even popular Panini cards. They are popular but they still hate it? Personal opinion sure. But then when you couple that with the UD ONLY mentaltity it starts to make sense.

Design standpoint is a personal subjective taste. Earlier I ripped off a list of Panini cards I like and you agreed with only a few. Its an opinion at that. I have no issues with design. My skeptisism is with blind liking. Ferrari puts out some beautifully designed cars. But they have the odd ugly one that shows up, but youll have people still praise its beauty because its Ferrrari. I see that with select people and UD here. You could put out a bunk version of 1994 UD CC (ugly design) and these people will go ga ga over it because its UD and nothing more.

Company aside, I still believe every company from Panini, Topps UD and fleer, they all put out some great designs and ugly ones. Just seems like Panini designs are the only ones that get dogged. Maybe that has more to do with them being the only player but that doesnt excuse the fact that all of them are still at fault for putting out garbage during their term.

I highlighted more than a few, but its not due to liking the design at all. I like most all of the designs. Earlier, you stated these were cards that you would like to own. I highlighted the ones I'd like to own.

Also most of the people complaining are for wayyyy different reasons than what you are describing. People bashing Panini stuff this year, aren't bashing it in a comparison to UD, but a comparison to Panini stuff just 2 seasons ago! Thats the majority. The cards look like pure dog **** compared to past Panini releases. You'd have to agree with that. If not I don't know what else to say.

[B_Z_K]

Does anyone just like to collect anymore? everyone just thinks about value and flipping product. I enjoy good looking cards with cool and interesting designs. I much rather have a cool looking insert not numbered than a patch numbered to 1 or 10 or whatever if it looks like ass. Obviously people have different opinions when it comes to design elements they like, and I agree some of Panini's designs seemed uninspired to say the least, but they have some sharp looking stuff as well. Its when people start treating this hobby as just a way to make money when they get angry, you have to remember that its a hobby, not a means of you guys to make bank. You think people that collect other things for their hobby do it for the money? No, they do it because they truly enjoy it. For the most part, I just go to shows and buy singles of the players I like, hardly ever buy boxes. Topps, UD, Panini, whatever it is doesn't mater to me, I just enjoy basketball cards, maybe if you don't feel the same way you shouldn't be here...

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

It would seem that way if you didnt ignore the fact that the hate for todays cards comes from not having UD. If you notice the dislike for Panini cards (forget the company) it almost always relates back to not having UD cards around. UD cards were like a drug these people. You take it away and they crave more. THey dont care what else is available, they just want UD period. Nothing else matters. Thats how I see it. Thats my take on it.

I came to this conclusion from reading posts from people who dislike even popular Panini cards. They are popular but they still hate it? Personal opinion sure. But then when you couple that with the UD ONLY mentaltity it starts to make sense.

Design standpoint is a personal subjective taste. Earlier I ripped off a list of Panini cards I like and you agreed with only a few. Its an opinion at that. I have no issues with design. My skeptisism is with blind liking. Ferrari puts out some beautifully designed cars. But they have the odd ugly one that shows up, but youll have people still praise its beauty because its Ferrrari. I see that with select people and UD here. You could put out a bunk version of 1994 UD CC (ugly design) and these people will go ga ga over it because its UD and nothing more.

Company aside, I still believe every company from Panini, Topps UD and fleer, they all put out some great designs and ugly ones. Just seems like Panini designs are the only ones that get dogged. Maybe that has more to do with them being the only player but that doesnt excuse the fact that all of them are still at fault for putting out garbage during their term.

It's not a blind committment to UD, it was an appreciation for their good stuff. If you changed all the Panini products today and called them UD elite, UD prizm, UD Classics, UD contenders, I would diss their products today- they still suck.

When you've driven a Lexus for many years, and now you are driving a honda accord, you have a right to be dissatisfied.

If upper deck returned, and they just started making crap products, I wouldn't support them.

I support their old licensed stuff. I can't stand Upper deck unlicensed products, they suck almost as bad a bad Panini stuff.

I'm still waiting for a Panini Lexus product....it's been four years now.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by mcgahee21nfl

I highlighted more than a few, but its not due to liking the design at all. I like most all of the designs. Earlier, you stated these were cards that you would like to own. I highlighted the ones I'd like to own.

Also most of the people complaining are for wayyyy different reasons than what you are describing. People bashing Panini stuff this year, aren't bashing it in a comparison to UD, but a comparison to Panini stuff just 2 seasons ago! Thats the majority. The cards look like pure dog **** compared to past Panini releases. You'd have to agree with that. If not I don't know what else to say.

Some of it sure. Not all of it. I can easily admit that some brands of Panini look like garbage.

NT looked better to me in recent times than 09-10
Certified looks much better now as well.

I didnt crack any other product beside Prizm and the two mentioned above which I cant relate it back to 2 yrs ago, but there are some that look better.

[NJNets24]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

It's not a blind committment to UD, it was an appreciation for their good stuff. If you changed all the Panini products today and called them UD elite, UD prizm, UD Classics, UD contenders, I would diss their products today- they still suck.

When you've driven a Lexus for many years, and now you are driving a honda accord, you have a right to be dissatisfied.

If upper deck returned, and they just started making crap products, I wouldn't support them.

I support their old licensed stuff. I can't stand Upper deck unlicensed products, they suck almost as bad a bad Panini stuff.

I'm still waiting for a Panini Lexus product....it's been four years now.

See, that's the problem I have. Upper Deck made plenty of crap products. PLENTY. You call UD a Lexus. But that's your opinion about the company in general. Regardless of the product they put out, you're still going to call them a Lexus. I can rattle off numerous UD products that were just awful. Yet people harp on Exquisite, UC, Black. For every good product, there are bad products and numerous stickers and a terrible redemption process. People seem to forget that thought.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

It's not a blind committment to UD, it was an appreciation for their good stuff. If you changed all the Panini products today and called them UD elite, UD prizm, UD Classics, UD contenders, I would diss their products today- they still suck.

When you've driven a Lexus for many years, and now you are driving a honda accord, you have a right to be dissatisfied.

If upper deck returned, and they just started making crap products, I wouldn't support them.

I support their old licensed stuff. I can't stand Upper deck unlicensed products, they suck almost as bad a bad Panini stuff.

I dont know how you compare a Lexus to a Honda. A $80k car vs a $30k car? Exquiste at $500/pack vs $Prizm at $120/box ??

So if you drive a lexus at $80k then downgrade to a Honda Accord at $30k you DONT have a right to be upset knowing full well that your happiness came at a savings of $$.

Ill ask again. Outside of Exquisite, SPA and Black/Chronology, what UD products did you support?

Skybox?
Hardcourt?
UD 3d?
UD regular?
UD SPGU?
UD SP tin?
UD CC?
Triology?

Just like Panini, UD had some garbage cards that collector just did not buy. Sure Exquisite/spa/black/chronology all sold well. So did NT/Certfied/Prizm.

But just like Contenders/TT/Absolute tanked, so did SP tins, CC, Hardcourt, 3D, Reserve, pro & prospects.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

I dont know how you compare a Lexus to a Honda. A $80k car vs a $30k car? Exquiste at $500/pack vs $Prizm at $120/box ??

So if you drive a lexus at $80k then downgrade to a Honda Accord at $30k you DONT have a right to be upset knowing full well that your happiness came at a savings of $$.

Ill ask again. Outside of Exquisite, SPA and Black/Chronology, what UD products did you support?

Skybox?
Hardcourt?
UD 3d?
UD regular?
UD SPGU?
UD SP tin?
UD CC?
Triology?

Just like Panini, UD had some garbage cards that collector just did not buy. Sure Exquisite/spa/black/chronology all sold well. So did NT/Certfied/Prizm.

But just like Contenders/TT/Absolute tanked, so did SP tins, CC, Hardcourt, 3D, Reserve, pro & prospects.

My problem is that my only choice at this time is to drive a honda accord, they don't make lexus anymore.

I have the money for a Lexus, and they don't make it anymore.

I told you that i'm still waiting for panini to do something right.

$500 per pack national treasures- sticker autos- REALLY? Cards with the same designs as their basic products? Same player selection? $1 jersey cards in a $500 NT product? STicker autos again?

Panini can't do it right.

I have the money to spend on basketball, there's been nothing that has compelled me to buy in the last four years. I'm not the only one.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by NJNets24

See, that's the problem I have. Upper Deck made plenty of crap products. PLENTY. You call UD a Lexus. But that's your opinion about the company in general. Regardless of the product they put out, you're still going to call them a Lexus. I can rattle off numerous UD products that were just awful. Yet people harp on Exquisite, UC, Black. For every good product, there are bad products and numerous stickers and a terrible redemption process. People seem to forget that thought.

Didn't you read my post - Upper deck unlicensed stuff = CRAP!!! I don't have any interest in buying anymore, even exquisite.

[NJNets24]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

Didn't you read my post - Upper deck unlicensed stuff = CRAP!!! I don't have any interest in buying anymore, even exquisite.

That's the thing, they made plenty of CRAP when they were licensed.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by NJNets24

That's the thing, they made plenty of CRAP when they were licensed.

I agree 100%.

The main problem I have is Panini makes 100% crap.

I will concede that UD made 90% crap, but Panini makes 100% crap.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

My problem is that my only choice at this time is to drive a honda accord, they don't make lexus anymore.

I have the money for a Lexus, and they don't make it anymore.

I told you that i'm still waiting for panini to do something right.

$500 per pack national treasures- sticker autos- REALLY? Cards with the same designs as their basic products? Same player selection? $1 jersey cards in a $500 NT product? STicker autos again?

Panini can't do it right.

I have the money to spend on basketball, there's been nothing that has compelled me to buy in the last four years. I'm not the only one.

Maybe this is a clear indication that you only liked UD for the $500/pack product. The whales you spoke of earlier is yourself. Its not cards for you. Its the price of them for you. Outside of the extreme high end examples I gave, you dont bother with anything else. Im in firm belief that if UD exquisite didnt ride the hype train with its pricing, you wouldnt like it either.

You are driven by price, not quality.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Maybe this is a clear indication that you only liked UD for the $500/pack product. The whales you spoke of earlier is yourself. Its not cards for you. Its the price of them for you. Outside of the extreme high end examples I gave, you dont bother with anything else. Im in firm belief that if UD exquisite didnt ride the hype train with its pricing, you wouldnt like it either.

You are driven by price, not quality.

I am driven by quality, which leads to price.

I don't bother with anything that I can get on ebay 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, at any minute at any second. prizm/10, totally certified/5, national treasures platinum parallel/10- they are all the same to me, they've been done before, and they will be done again ten-fold until people get bored and move on. NT platinum comes from a $500 pack, why don't people pay more for those? It doesn't make sense, they would rather get a base card/10 out of a $120 box, then a base card/10 out of a $500 pack, it's called fake hype.

I don't buy NT in bulk, cause it's really not that good, and it's expensive.

I'd rather buy a $120 box of licensed sp authentic, than a $120 box of prizm, 100% of the time.

Upper Deck made some timeless cards, and i'm not talking about timeless treasures, the same layout and sticker autos and bad player selection and design each and every year, nauseating the consumer base.

I actually look out for those things that are essentially unreachable, and are similarly desired by many.

Upper Deck made those kind of cards, Panini doesn't.

[WillC]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I am driven by quality, which leads to price.

I don't bother with anything that I can get on ebay 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, at any minute at any second. prizm/10, totally certified/5, national treasures platinum parallel/10- they are all the same to me, they've been done before, and they will be done again ten-fold until people get bored and move on. NT platinum comes from a $500 pack, why don't people pay more for those? It doesn't make sense, they would rather get a base card/10 out of a $120 box, then a base card/10 out of a $500 pack, it's called fake hype.

I don't buy NT in bulk, cause it's really not that good, and it's expensive.

I'd rather buy a $120 box of licensed sp authentic, than a $120 box of prizm, 100% of the time.

Upper Deck made some timeless cards, and i'm not talking about timeless treasures, the same layout and sticker autos and bad player selection and design each and every year, nauseating the consumer base.

I actually look out for those things that are essentially unreachable, and are similarly desired by many.

Upper Deck made those kind of cards, Panini doesn't.

Excellent post. You made lots of fair points, which I agree with.

[hermanotarjeta]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Maybe this is a clear indication that you only liked UD for the $500/pack product. The whales you spoke of earlier is yourself. Its not cards for you. Its the price of them for you. Outside of the extreme high end examples I gave, you dont bother with anything else. Im in firm belief that if UD exquisite didnt ride the hype train with its pricing, you wouldnt like it either.

You are driven by price, not quality.

Oh, and you can put a $1000 per box price tag on prizm, and I still wouldn't buy it.

[wegoingsizzler]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

I dont know how you compare a Lexus to a Honda. A $80k car vs a $30k car? Exquiste at $500/pack vs $Prizm at $120/box ??

So if you drive a lexus at $80k then downgrade to a Honda Accord at $30k you DONT have a right to be upset knowing full well that your happiness came at a savings of $$.

Ill ask again. Outside of Exquisite, SPA and Black/Chronology, what UD products did you support?

Skybox?
Hardcourt?
UD 3d?
UD regular?
UD SPGU?
UD SP tin?
UD CC?
Triology?

Just like Panini, UD had some garbage cards that collector just did not buy. Sure Exquisite/spa/black/chronology all sold well. So did NT/Certfied/Prizm.

But just like Contenders/TT/Absolute tanked, so did SP tins, CC, Hardcourt, 3D, Reserve, pro & prospects.

Are you seriously comparing UD product lines against Panini lines??

UD made different products at different price point to satisfy the different level of collectors..
Low end ($30-$50 MSRP):Victory, CC, UD Series I&II
Mid end ($50-$80 MSRP): Reserve, Pro & Prospects, Hardcourt, SP Sig
High end ($80-$150 MSRP): SPX, SP Authentics, Triology
Super High ENd (above $150 MSRP): Exquisite, UC, Chronology, UD Black

Yes, CC, Victory designs were garbage, but they were $30 boxes... I am not complaining about the design of Hoops which is MSRP $60!! I will take the design from any mid tier UD product against Hoops, R&S, Prestige any day!! and they are MSRP $85-90!!

and for the high end stuff such as Contenders, TT and Absolute... you really believe they are better designed than SP authentic, SPX or Trilogy??

Now for the super high end such as Panini Black, NT, Preferred, GS... it is not even a fair fight... Exquiste, UC, UD BLakc, and Chrono blows them away...

Take out MJ and Lebron... you going to tell me that Panini actually makes better products as a WHOLE than UD???

[wegoingsizzler]

Originally Posted by hermanotarjeta

I am driven by quality, which leads to price.

I don't bother with anything that I can get on ebay 365 days a year, 24 hours a day, at any minute at any second. prizm/10, totally certified/5, national treasures platinum parallel/10- they are all the same to me, they've been done before, and they will be done again ten-fold until people get bored and move on. NT platinum comes from a $500 pack, why don't people pay more for those? It doesn't make sense, they would rather get a base card/10 out of a $120 box, then a base card/10 out of a $500 pack, it's called fake hype.

I don't buy NT in bulk, cause it's really not that good, and it's expensive.

I'd rather buy a $120 box of licensed sp authentic, than a $120 box of prizm, 100% of the time.

Upper Deck made some timeless cards, and i'm not talking about timeless treasures, the same layout and sticker autos and bad player selection and design each and every year, nauseating the consumer base.

I actually look out for those things that are essentially unreachable, and are similarly desired by many.

Upper Deck made those kind of cards, Panini doesn't.

Exactly my point from the previous thread... Panini does not have a lot of IT cards....