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Old 01-10-2013, 05:22 PM   #176 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Orangejello727 View Post
Some of it sure. Not all of it. I can easily admit that some brands of Panini look like garbage.

NT looked better to me in recent times than 09-10
Certified looks much better now as well.

I didnt crack any other product beside Prizm and the two mentioned above which I cant relate it back to 2 yrs ago, but there are some that look better.
I'd love to hear you elaborate on this, because there was only 1 more recently, which was 10/11. What did you like more about 10/11 than 09/10? The Notable Nicknames which you highlighted was one of the sets you would like to own, for sure went down hill in the latter. 10/11 Nicknames for the most part didn't even have the players autograph their name, only their nickname.

Ok so you named TWO products that haven't looked like garbage so far this year. We are in agreement, and you are in agreement with everyone else that is firing at Panini.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:24 PM   #177 (permalink)
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I dont know how you compare a Lexus to a Honda. A $80k car vs a $30k car? Exquiste at $500/pack vs $Prizm at $120/box ??

So if you drive a lexus at $80k then downgrade to a Honda Accord at $30k you DONT have a right to be upset knowing full well that your happiness came at a savings of $$.

Ill ask again. Outside of Exquisite, SPA and Black/Chronology, what UD products did you support?

Skybox?
Hardcourt?
UD 3d?
UD regular?
UD SPGU?
UD SP tin?
UD CC?
Triology?

Just like Panini, UD had some garbage cards that collector just did not buy. Sure Exquisite/spa/black/chronology all sold well. So did NT/Certfied/Prizm.

But just like Contenders/TT/Absolute tanked, so did SP tins, CC, Hardcourt, 3D, Reserve, pro & prospects.
In honesty, I bought a bunch of Hardcourt, SPGU, Triology and regular UD. Heck, I pulled a jordan auto out of a regular UD box. Those are fun to open. I am not defending UD but they do make nicer products than Panini.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:25 PM   #178 (permalink)
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Are you seriously comparing UD product lines against Panini lines??

UD made different products at different price point to satisfy the different level of collectors..
Low end ($30-$50 MSRP):Victory, CC, UD Series I&II
Mid end ($50-$80 MSRP): Reserve, Pro & Prospects, Hardcourt, SP Sig
High end ($80-$150 MSRP): SPX, SP Authentics, Triology
Super High ENd (above $150 MSRP): Exquisite, UC, Chronology, UD Black

Yes, CC, Victory designs were garbage, but they were $30 boxes... I am not complaining about the design of Hoops which is MSRP $60!! I will take the design from any mid tier UD product against Hoops, R&S, Prestige any day!! and they are MSRP $85-90!!

and for the high end stuff such as Contenders, TT and Absolute... you really believe they are better designed than SP authentic, SPX or Trilogy??

Now for the super high end such as Panini Black, NT, Preferred, GS... it is not even a fair fight... Exquiste, UC, UD BLakc, and Chrono blows them away...

Take out MJ and Lebron... you going to tell me that Panini actually makes better products as a WHOLE than UD???
Contenders, TT and Absolute are not high end. They have "high end" price, but it is actually Panini mid-range products.

So, it is like paying $25,000 for a Acura ILX which is a Honda Civic with better leather seat.
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Old 01-10-2013, 05:28 PM   #179 (permalink)
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Contenders, TT and Absolute are not high end. They have "high end" price, but it is actually Panini mid-range products.

So, it is like paying $25,000 for a Acura ILX which is a Honda Civic with better leather seat.
That is my point!!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:13 PM   #180 (permalink)
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Contenders, TT and Absolute are not high end. They have "high end" price, but it is actually Panini mid-range products.

So, it is like paying $25,000 for a Acura ILX which is a Honda Civic with better leather seat.
And you think SP Tins and Chronology were high end for their price and what you got? LOL. Better yet, what about UD black and its prices?

Hey man, you dont like the current scene of basketball, you know what you can do!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:16 PM   #181 (permalink)
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I'd love to hear you elaborate on this, because there was only 1 more recently, which was 10/11. What did you like more about 10/11 than 09/10? The Notable Nicknames which you highlighted was one of the sets you would like to own, for sure went down hill in the latter. 10/11 Nicknames for the most part didn't even have the players autograph their name, only their nickname.

Ok so you named TWO products that haven't looked like garbage so far this year. We are in agreement, and you are in agreement with everyone else that is firing at Panini.
Im not a fan of Rc RPA horizontally. I like them vertically. A big time rookie driven product.

Im in no way sticking up for Panini. Im just dealing with the times. Just like my father did when he no longer could buy a Buick Grand National because they discontinued the FBI car model!
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:23 PM   #182 (permalink)
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I know what you mean about dealing with the times man. We just all got to understand that Panini is never going to get Jordan and Lebron (autos) in any of their high-end products.....so just got to deal with the players they have. With that said, they can still improve their super high end products like National Treasures. Add some foiling around cutouts for patches, etc. And NO MORE stickers autos, especially on their logoman cards....I mean what the heck its that? Even with no Jordan and Lebron, they still have a lot of room to improve on their high end products.
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Old 01-10-2013, 06:28 PM   #183 (permalink)
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I know what you mean about dealing with the times man. We just all got to understand that Panini is never going to get Jordan and Lebron (autos) in any of their high-end products.....so just got to deal with the players they have. With that said, they can still improve their super high end products like National Treasures. Add some foiling around cutouts for patches, etc. And NO MORE stickers autos, especially on their logoman cards....I mean what the heck its that? Even with no Jordan and Lebron, they still have a lot of room to improve on their high end products.
Im not contending improvements to quality and design. Im just patient about it as it takes time to develop it. Doesnt happen overnight. UD started business in 1989. In 2003 they came out with exquisite. All im saying is it takes time to get there. WHats the rush? The mayans were wrong!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:10 PM   #184 (permalink)
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but dude, they are not improving but actually taking steps backwards (except prizm)
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:13 PM   #185 (permalink)
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but dude, they are not improving but actually taking steps backwards (except prizm)
How many years have you given them?? 2 yrs? It took UD a decade to give you a GU jersey and auto. It took 13 yrs to get you exqusite. You think 2 yrs is a long time?
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #186 (permalink)
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How many years have you given them?? 2 yrs? It took UD a decade to give you a GU jersey and auto. It took 13 yrs to get you exqusite. You think 2 yrs is a long time?
All firsts and all product innovations. Oh wait Panini bought out video cards, how did that work out?
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:24 PM   #187 (permalink)
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How many years have you given them?? 2 yrs? It took UD a decade to give you a GU jersey and auto. It took 13 yrs to get you exqusite. You think 2 yrs is a long time?
You make it sound like Panini didn't have a clue about sports cards when they started and got an NBA license exclusively. You would think the NBA would have chosen a more competent company before handing out an exclusive license, a company that did their reseach about what collectors were looking for before they started producing cards. How long have modern day basketball cards existed for? Market research, talking to people in the hobby who know what collectors are looking for.

sheesh.

Then again, Topps has been in this business for over 60 years, and they still can't get things right....
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:32 PM   #188 (permalink)
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All firsts and all product innovations. Oh wait Panini bought out video cards, how did that work out?
The same thing that happend when UD put holograms in their product. It failed. No company is perfect.

1st yr chronology failed as well. Did you give up on them?
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Old 01-10-2013, 07:33 PM   #189 (permalink)
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You make it sound like Panini didn't have a clue about sports cards when they started and got an NBA license exclusively. You would think the NBA would have chosen a more competent company before handing out an exclusive license, a company that did their reseach about what collectors were looking for before they started producing cards. How long have modern day basketball cards existed for? Market research, talking to people in the hobby who know what collectors are looking for.

sheesh.

Then again, Topps has been in this business for over 60 years, and they still can't get things right....
They picked a company that could pay their bills. Thats what they did. Maybe UD would have stood a chance if they didnt rape and pillage their clients and rip off Konami and get taken to court. But hey, I guess you can blame that on Panini as well huh!!
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:24 PM   #190 (permalink)
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All firsts and all product innovations. Oh wait Panini bought out video cards, how did that work out?
I don't know, let's put a UD logo on them and see how you react.

And for the record, I'm no more a fan of Panini than I am Topps or Upper Deck. I'm just sick of all the whining about crap that other companies did.

By the way, go dig up some 08-09 Rookie Debut cards. I just got some in the mail and they are printed on the same crappy stock that Panini is using yet I didn't here anybody make a stink about that. Or was it because everyone only collects Exquisite and are too good to have Rookie Debut in their collection?
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:50 PM   #191 (permalink)
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By the way, go dig up some 08-09 Rookie Debut cards. I just got some in the mail and they are printed on the same crappy stock that Panini is using yet I didn't here anybody make a stink about that. Or was it because everyone only collects Exquisite and are too good to have Rookie Debut in their collection?
Well I don't think I've ever even heard of that product, so it hardly seems worthy of being used in an argument...
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Old 01-10-2013, 08:53 PM   #192 (permalink)
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basketball is starting to be simple, any product that comes out with numbered colored parallels, just buy up cases and hold for a few months, than resell.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:05 PM   #193 (permalink)
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Tired of the bull 'the hobby is now only becoming about investments and flipping/selling! You people just can't be happy!' Yes, that's true, but what's your opposing argument? Bottom line is Panini is not only churning out terrible ROI, but are also starting to churn a lower quality product as time moves on, and there is NO ONE here who can argue against that. So, YES, there is reason to complain, on both accounts of the potential investor AND collector.


So stop with the investor/flip argument bull.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:08 PM   #194 (permalink)
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Well I don't think I've ever even heard of that product, so it hardly seems worthy of being used in an argument...
Sorry, I meant 06-07 Rookie Debut. Ever heard of it?? Or have you only heard of SPGU Quad Tag's
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:20 PM   #195 (permalink)
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Tired of the bull 'the hobby is now only becoming about investments and flipping/selling! You people just can't be happy!' Yes, that's true, but what's your opposing argument? Bottom line is Panini is not only churning out terrible ROI, but are also starting to churn a lower quality product as time moves on, and there is NO ONE here who can argue against that. So, YES, there is reason to complain, on both accounts of the potential investor AND collector.


So stop with the investor/flip argument bull.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:20 PM   #196 (permalink)
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I've never understood the obsession with ud, and it always seems like i'm able to find a couple of unique, under the radar panini sets to collect. Certified was outstanding this year, and prizm isnt bad either. Limited has "limited" breaking value, but the card designs are undeniably gorgeous. The black friday cards were mostly awesome and should hold their value.

Nonetheless, this timeless treasures is a giant, steaming pile of fail. It is no different than any other low end panini product, but they put thr timeless treasures name on it. The sticker glass autos are embarrassing (why didnt the "glass" get sent instead of the stickers?), and they stripped every high end card out of the set. Mind boggling, to say the least.

The other thing that bothers me is prior panini seasons have featured all sorts of low numbered rc's to collect. This year, its certified, crappy stickers, or insanely limited and overpriced. This isnt a good trend at all.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:24 PM   #197 (permalink)
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How long have modern day basketball cards existed for? Market research, talking to people in the hobby who know what collectors are looking for.

sheesh.
Sadly the answer to what "collectors" these days are looking for is a >100% return on their "investment".
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:28 PM   #198 (permalink)
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Sorry, I meant 06-07 Rookie Debut. Ever heard of it?? Or have you only heard of SPGU Quad Tag's
What the hell is your problem?

I've heard of most products. Rookie Debut isn't one that rings a bell, so it was either low-end, or not widely known/available.
Why you have to try to get personal, I don't know.
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Old 01-10-2013, 09:56 PM   #199 (permalink)
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Tired of the bull 'the hobby is now only becoming about investments and flipping/selling! You people just can't be happy!' Yes, that's true, but what's your opposing argument? Bottom line is Panini is not only churning out terrible ROI, but are also starting to churn a lower quality product as time moves on, and there is NO ONE here who can argue against that. So, YES, there is reason to complain, on both accounts of the potential investor AND collector.


So stop with the investor/flip argument bull.
Your constant hate for this hobby without UD is starting to eat at you. Take a break from the hobby if you dont like Panini. Believe it wont miss you.

The only thing that getting old is the cry baby complaining " I WANT MY UD AND IM GOING TO CRY UNTIL SANTA BRINGS UD BACK".
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Old 01-10-2013, 10:03 PM   #200 (permalink)
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Your constant hate for this hobby without UD is starting to eat at you. Take a break from the hobby if you dont like Panini. Believe it wont miss you.

The only thing that getting old is the cry baby complaining " I WANT MY UD AND IM GOING TO CRY UNTIL SANTA BRINGS UD BACK".
Nah man I liked Panini products and have supported them the past 3 years and have a lot of their stuff, it's just this year we were presented with the worst products and clearly most manipulative company procedures I can ever remember since joining the hobby in 2003.
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