Are the Celtics better without Rondo? - Page 2

armyatc22 · 02-10-2013, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IamRalpho

Absolutely not.

Superstars win championships, and Rondo has a track record of A)winning and B) being elite

7 games in February doesnt erase the last 6 years

Yeah cause the lone NBA Champ makes him have a track record of winning? Didnt win a NCAA champ either

They should have traded him when they had the chance

IamRalpho · 02-10-2013, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by armyatc22

Yeah cause the lone NBA Champ makes him have a track record of winning? Didnt win a NCAA champ either

They should have traded him when they had the chance

Well hes been the point guard of a lot of winning teams, so I dont know what else you want him to do.

pnft17 · 02-10-2013, 10:28 PM

Read Ian Thomsen SI article on Celts. Explains well how Rondo assists were being selfish. He didn't want to push ball and pass ball ahead. Now they do it and team runs better now.

pnft17 · 02-10-2013, 10:32 PM

Celts record without Rondo since he came into the Association
36-17.

pac213up · 02-10-2013, 10:39 PM

'I like our vibe and our spirit and we're playing selfless and free,'' Doc said. ''We're not, honestly, good enough ballhandlers to play halfcourt. We just can't. We can't get stuck in that because we don't have one guy that is good enough with the ball to be able to orchestrate our offense.''

''Rondo does so many different great things for this team, you can kind of get lackadaisical,'' Kevin Garnett said. ''It's very similar to if you have someone cooking for you and you're expecting it every day.

''And, all of the sudden, that someone is not there, obviously, to do that, and it's up to you to feed yourself. And, all of the sudden, you start making these gourmet dishes and then you have some more people over to the house, more people eating. You never know you possessed that, unless you lost that person who was cooking. It's kind of like that.''

"We are different without him," Ainge explained. "We're running better now because five guys are running. Honestly, I think we rely on Rondo too much.

"For example: With Rondo out, you see Jeff Green grab a rebound and push it up the court himself. If he gets a rebound when Rondo is playing, he just gives it to him.

"That's not Rondo's fault. It's only because he's a great player and guys see him in that role."

murrke03 · 02-10-2013, 10:45 PM

I still want to know how rondo was the one that led the celtics to the finals.

pnft17 · 02-10-2013, 10:45 PM

Right now you can't argue that they are worse without him.

Big thing will be next season. People will jump right back on Rondo bandwagon if they win. Prove Ray Allen wrong. Who left because of Rondo being selfish and hated him.

The Celts could have a bright future without blowing it up. If Rondo can get the jet and Green more involved like they are now. This team could be in top 4-5 in east.
Right now I still think they can win a series against anyone in East outside Heat. Celts have proven they can beat Knicks.

Cades · 02-10-2013, 10:49 PM

Don't think so, no

pac213up · 02-10-2013, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnft17

Right now you can't argue that they are worse without him.

Big thing will be next season. People will jump right back on Rondo bandwagon if they win. Prove Ray Allen wrong. Who left because of Rondo being selfish and hated him.

The Celts could have a bright future without blowing it up. If Rondo can get the jet and Green more involved like they are now. This team could be in top 4-5 in east.
Right now I still think they can win a series against anyone in East outside Heat. Celts have proven they can beat Knicks.

Ray Allen left because he lost his starting role to Avery Bradley and Ainge tried to trade him multiple times. The Rondo stuff was secondary at best.

It is not up to Rondo to get Jet and Green more involved, it is up to Jet, Green, Doc, & Rondo to do that. Listen to what Ainge said....not what Tony Mazz says.

murrke03 · 02-10-2013, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pac213up

Ray Allen left because he lost his starting role to Avery Bradley and Ainge tried to trade him multiple times. The Rondo stuff was secondary at best.

It is not up to Rondo to get Jet and Green more involved, it is up to Jet, Green, Doc, & Rondo to do that. Listen to what Ainge said....not what Tony Mazz says.

Do you really think ainge would sit there and trash rondo?

Wings · 02-10-2013, 11:16 PM

Absolutely NOT!

Cades · 02-11-2013, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pnft17

Celts record without Rondo since he came into the Association
36-17.

Why leave out the record with rondo, postseason, included?

tristan20 · 02-11-2013, 12:57 AM

Right now they are, but Garnett and Pierce have a ton of minutes on their legs.

Playoffs is a different animal

Setzy · 02-11-2013, 09:53 AM

It's kind of like Bill Simmons' definition of the Ewing Theory, except the Celtics did win the 08 championship. If you haven't read it before, it's pretty interesting:

Sports Guy: Ewing Theory 101 - ESPN Page 2

As for better or worse, the Celtics as a team probably play up their to their potential better when they are missing their top guy. See the Bulls for an example of a thriving team missing their star PG.

jlzinck · 02-11-2013, 10:11 AM

Oh God all the Rondo fellators will riot.

Are they a better team without Rondo? No

Are they playing a better brand of ball without him at this time? Yes

Ewing Theory

IamRalpho · 02-11-2013, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlzinck

Oh God all the Rondo fellators will riot.

Are they a better team without Rondo? No

Are they playing a better brand of ball without him at this time? Yes

Ewing Theory

Pretty much sums the question up, too bad it took us multiple pages to get to it

TrueNE_09 · 02-11-2013, 11:50 AM

Listen - stats are truth. Yes, the dude passed the crap out of the ball and personally contributed to like half of the Celtics PPG, but 7 wins in a row after a very sub-500 start to the season is difficult to argue with.

I know, I know. It is only 7 games and the past 6 years were real.

Here is my take (agree or disagree):

With Rondo on the floor, everyone assumes he'll dish, run, lead. Right? So, everyone else is hands up, waiting for that pass, but likely doing a bit less than they otherwise might becauase they don't have to pass, be the playmaker, etc. This is obviously a bit exaggerated, I know, but you understand the point I'm making. Now, however, without the official floor leader on the court - where people thought the Celtics would fall apart - they have all actually stepped up more to fill the void. They are more active and as an entire team become a bit more fluid and complete, in my opinion. Some may have been able to predict this, but I think most felt that given Rondo's level of contribution to the overall gameplay that the team would have fallen apart a bit in his absence, but the exact opposite is actually happening.

This is a very interesting outcome thus far to say the least....

jbmets95 · 02-11-2013, 12:01 PM

Comon guys u think celtics would get to the eastern conference game 7 against the heat last year without rondo...

dont kid urself

its like saying the bulls dont want rose back after the all star break b/c there playing well now

murrke03 · 02-11-2013, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmets95

Comon guys u think celtics would get to the eastern conference game 7 against the heat last year without rondo...

dont kid urself

its like saying the bulls dont want rose back after the all star break b/c there playing well now

This isn't last year.

And as its been brought up before the playoffs is a whole different animal.

Cades · 02-11-2013, 12:36 PM

Where was the over-reaction when they won 6 in a row before losing 6 in a row with rondo?

There wasn't one, because it doesn't mean anything.

They were bound to stop sucking ass as a whole team eventually, rondo or not.

Rondo's fault pierce and kg are shooting their worst FT% in several years? and others on the team, for that matter.

It's great they are playing well right now, who really cares what the reason is. Teams move on from star injuries all the time, some teams play bad, some play good.

Fact is the Celtics had more talent as a whole and were not playing up to their nor anyone else's expectations.

scotts · 02-11-2013, 12:39 PM

Yes they have won 7 in a row, but the people that are answering yes to this poll question...need their head examined. Its only a matter of time before things come crashing down on the Celtics

IamRalpho · 02-11-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scotts

Yes they have won 7 in a row, but the people that are answering yes to this poll question...need their head examined. Its only a matter of time before things come crashing down on the Celtics

Playoffs. I can see this team do very well and be a 4-5 seed for the rest of the season, I doubt they struggle like they did previously.

murrke03 · 02-11-2013, 01:17 PM

the celtics probably aren't 'better' without rondo

the most interesting thing to me is that they are more successful. Rondo was basically giving the keys to the team. he was 'the top guy' this year and it failed.

now is that a knock on rondo... maybe
is it a knock on the team ainge put out with him... maybe
the question is how do the celtics think is the best for the future and how will they respond to this idea that maybe rondo shouldn't or can't be 'their guy'

Cades · 02-11-2013, 01:20 PM

Funny part is, all these media people stating/claiming/questioning whether the C's are better off without rondo are gonna be the same people stating how bad the C's missed Rondo in the playoffs.

murrke03 · 02-11-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cades

Funny part is, all these media people stating/claiming/questioning whether the C's are better off without rondo are gonna be the same people stating how bad the C's missed Rondo in the playoffs.

It's because the playoffs are different. A lot of people saying these things are also acknowledging that.

View Poll Results: Are the Celtics better without Rondo?
Yes	28	26.42%
No	45	42.45%
Too early to tell	23	21.70%
I don't know	3	2.83%
Who is Rondo?	7	6.60%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll

02-10-2013, 10:39 PM	#30 (permalink)
pac213up Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3,273 craftyvet	'I like our vibe and our spirit and we're playing selfless and free,'' Doc said. ''We're not, honestly, good enough ballhandlers to play halfcourt. We just can't. We can't get stuck in that because we don't have one guy that is good enough with the ball to be able to orchestrate our offense.'' ''Rondo does so many different great things for this team, you can kind of get lackadaisical,'' Kevin Garnett said. ''It's very similar to if you have someone cooking for you and you're expecting it every day. ''And, all of the sudden, that someone is not there, obviously, to do that, and it's up to you to feed yourself. And, all of the sudden, you start making these gourmet dishes and then you have some more people over to the house, more people eating. You never know you possessed that, unless you lost that person who was cooking. It's kind of like that.'' "We are different without him," Ainge explained. "We're running better now because five guys are running. Honestly, I think we rely on Rondo too much. "For example: With Rondo out, you see Jeff Green grab a rebound and push it up the court himself. If he gets a rebound when Rondo is playing, he just gives it to him. "That's not Rondo's fault. It's only because he's a great player and guys see him in that role." __________________ "Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser." - Red Auerbach

02-10-2013, 10:45 PM	#31 (permalink)
murrke03 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8,036 murrke03	I still want to know how rondo was the one that led the celtics to the finals. __________________ Looking for Reece Gaines.

02-10-2013, 10:49 PM	#33 (permalink)
Cades Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,292 cadesnh1	Don't think so, no __________________ http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n93/Cadesnh/ Collecting Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics, Bruins.

02-10-2013, 11:16 PM	#36 (permalink)
Wings Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Omaha Posts: 1,610 joes_cardboard	Absolutely NOT! __________________ Looking for a 2006-07 ULTIMATE COLLECTION NUMBERS #UNCA CARMELO ANTHONY /15 AUTO

02-10-2013, 10:28 PM	#28 (permalink)
pnft17 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,574	Read Ian Thomsen SI article on Celts. Explains well how Rondo assists were being selfish. He didn't want to push ball and pass ball ahead. Now they do it and team runs better now.

02-10-2013, 10:32 PM	#29 (permalink)
pnft17 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,574	Celts record without Rondo since he came into the Association 36-17.

02-10-2013, 10:45 PM	#32 (permalink)
pnft17 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 1,574	Right now you can't argue that they are worse without him. Big thing will be next season. People will jump right back on Rondo bandwagon if they win. Prove Ray Allen wrong. Who left because of Rondo being selfish and hated him. The Celts could have a bright future without blowing it up. If Rondo can get the jet and Green more involved like they are now. This team could be in top 4-5 in east. Right now I still think they can win a series against anyone in East outside Heat. Celts have proven they can beat Knicks.

02-11-2013, 12:57 AM	#38 (permalink)
tristan20 Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 5,760	Right now they are, but Garnett and Pierce have a ton of minutes on their legs. Playoffs is a different animal __________________ http://pc.leeshark.com/ !

02-11-2013, 09:53 AM	#39 (permalink)
Setzy Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Lexington, KY Posts: 157 setzermason	It's kind of like Bill Simmons' definition of the Ewing Theory, except the Celtics did win the 08 championship. If you haven't read it before, it's pretty interesting: Sports Guy: Ewing Theory 101 - ESPN Page 2 As for better or worse, the Celtics as a team probably play up their to their potential better when they are missing their top guy. See the Bulls for an example of a thriving team missing their star PG.

02-11-2013, 10:11 AM	#40 (permalink)
jlzinck Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA Posts: 11,655 jlzinck	Oh God all the Rondo fellators will riot. Are they a better team without Rondo? No Are they playing a better brand of ball without him at this time? Yes Ewing Theory __________________ http://vaughnlive.tv/jlzinck http://www.ustream.tv/channel/jon-s-box-breaks-and-more

02-11-2013, 11:50 AM	#42 (permalink)
TrueNE_09 Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boston Posts: 7,824 deks_7981	Listen - stats are truth. Yes, the dude passed the crap out of the ball and personally contributed to like half of the Celtics PPG, but 7 wins in a row after a very sub-500 start to the season is difficult to argue with. I know, I know. It is only 7 games and the past 6 years were real. Here is my take (agree or disagree): With Rondo on the floor, everyone assumes he'll dish, run, lead. Right? So, everyone else is hands up, waiting for that pass, but likely doing a bit less than they otherwise might becauase they don't have to pass, be the playmaker, etc. This is obviously a bit exaggerated, I know, but you understand the point I'm making. Now, however, without the official floor leader on the court - where people thought the Celtics would fall apart - they have all actually stepped up more to fill the void. They are more active and as an entire team become a bit more fluid and complete, in my opinion. Some may have been able to predict this, but I think most felt that given Rondo's level of contribution to the overall gameplay that the team would have fallen apart a bit in his absence, but the exact opposite is actually happening. This is a very interesting outcome thus far to say the least.... __________________ Thoughts remain with CNNR... #BostonStrong

02-11-2013, 12:01 PM	#43 (permalink)
jbmets95 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: NY Posts: 2,527	Comon guys u think celtics would get to the eastern conference game 7 against the heat last year without rondo... dont kid urself its like saying the bulls dont want rose back after the all star break b/c there playing well now __________________ http://s897.photobucket.com/albums/ac172/jbmets95/ PC:Toney Douglas, David Lee, Gallo, Amare Stoudemire,Jrue Holliday, Greg Monroe, Iman Shumpert ALL Autos (Including 1/1's) (17/25) 68%* , ALL KNICKS and METS*

02-11-2013, 12:36 PM	#45 (permalink)
Cades Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,292 cadesnh1	Where was the over-reaction when they won 6 in a row before losing 6 in a row with rondo? There wasn't one, because it doesn't mean anything. They were bound to stop sucking ass as a whole team eventually, rondo or not. Rondo's fault pierce and kg are shooting their worst FT% in several years? and others on the team, for that matter. It's great they are playing well right now, who really cares what the reason is. Teams move on from star injuries all the time, some teams play bad, some play good. Fact is the Celtics had more talent as a whole and were not playing up to their nor anyone else's expectations. __________________ http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n93/Cadesnh/ Collecting Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics, Bruins.

02-11-2013, 12:39 PM	#46 (permalink)
scotts Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,138 bhull1616	Yes they have won 7 in a row, but the people that are answering yes to this poll question...need their head examined. Its only a matter of time before things come crashing down on the Celtics

02-11-2013, 01:17 PM	#48 (permalink)
murrke03 Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 8,036 murrke03	the celtics probably aren't 'better' without rondo the most interesting thing to me is that they are more successful. Rondo was basically giving the keys to the team. he was 'the top guy' this year and it failed. now is that a knock on rondo... maybe is it a knock on the team ainge put out with him... maybe the question is how do the celtics think is the best for the future and how will they respond to this idea that maybe rondo shouldn't or can't be 'their guy' __________________ Looking for Reece Gaines.

02-11-2013, 01:20 PM	#49 (permalink)
Cades Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 1,292 cadesnh1	Funny part is, all these media people stating/claiming/questioning whether the C's are better off without rondo are gonna be the same people stating how bad the C's missed Rondo in the playoffs. __________________ http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n93/Cadesnh/ Collecting Red Sox, Patriots, Celtics, Bruins.

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