Blowout Cards Forums
Blowout Remix

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASKETBALL

BASKETBALL Post your Basketball Cards Hobby Talk

View Poll Results: Cracking Graded Cards To Re-Sell Ok??
Yes 160 75.83%
No 51 24.17%
Voters: 211. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-24-2013, 12:14 AM   #51 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by penny1fan View Post
Play the numbers card Paul,You openly admitted "most people would rather own a raw card than a graded 8.5" Clearly indicating that you will go through the troubles of busting slabs to profit a few extra bucks.There is nothing wrong with this method as long as you are open and honest about a cards backstory.As far as the Penny cards I busted were both 9's.I would have no issues mentioning that to anyone especially if I were to sell them in the future.Now run a ong and pretend you are invincible because you found new life here and Blowoutcards and made lots of friends.What you do is inmoral and deceiving.You continue to prove over and over again that your morality can be bought for a small price.
Oh the irony!


Aaron's autobiography is now ready for publishing!
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:15 AM   #52 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
Oh the irony!


Aaron's autobiography is now ready for publishing!
You have quite the history of cracking slabs for re-sell purpose buddy and you keep doing it over ... and over again.SMH
penny1fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:16 AM   #53 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
.....incorrect.


I said "with a subjective GRADE"

An altered card is not GRADED, it's merely encapsulated and determined as altered prior to grading. Grading would mean giving it a physical grade.



Any encapsulated cards as "altered" should never be broken out and sold as real. An unaltered card is in it's exact state whether inside our outside the plastic case.
The altered title is subjective just like any grade. Beckett has no clue whether the card is altered or not.
murrke03 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:16 AM   #54 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mires View Post
Considering most collectors collect thicker, modern, auto, and patch/jersey cards it makes sense. I was thinking in more of a vintage/traditional sense.
Most collectors these days would prefer raw over graded, as most collectors prefer a uniformed organization.

Even the shady OP, pennyfan1, admitted to cracking cards out of the case for his PC for the 'time being' until he eventually sells.

So yeah, with thicker patch/jersey cards sometimes there's ridiculously oversized PSA/BGS cases too.


There's straight-raw card collectors, straight-graded card collectors, and then some who enjoy a mix of both. But the majority seem to be the raw card collectors.
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:17 AM   #55 (permalink)
Member
 
BGSgradedRookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 353
Default

__________________
Serge Ibaka Collector
BGSgradedRookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:19 AM   #56 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
The altered title is subjective just like any grade. Beckett has no clue whether the card is altered or not.
I don't follow? They determine a card is altered due to measurements and scale when compared to 100% legit versions.


Grading is entirely subjective, and that's why this thread is pointless to try to say that it's "wrong" to crack out a graded card and sell.


If you were selling a card that was graded a BGS 2 and cracked out ... wouldn't the buyer be upset if the damage was not noted?!



That's why this thread is so pointless, everything is subjective!
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:20 AM   #57 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,450
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by murrke03 View Post
The altered title is subjective just like any grade. Beckett has no clue whether the card is altered or not.
I'm pretty sure I've heard stories of people buying a graded card, cracking it open to re-submit and it comes back as altered.

So yeah, it appears even with that they aren't consistent
1eyed_jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:22 AM   #58 (permalink)
Member
 
hairyangryfella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
MOST people would rather have raw cards than graded cards. And MOST of those who do like graded cards, would only like a BGS 9 or higher.
This doesn't actually help your argument, rather it suggests what's wrong with the stance... Let the people buying the card decide to bust it, or move on to something that IS graded 9 or higher. It is being deceptive to bust it and sell it as 'raw' when it's not just raw, it is only nrmnt+... raw cards can achieve 9.5s, {former} 8.5s can't (or shouldn't, who knows with BGS....)
__________________
Buy a cheap game jersey! http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball-singles-buy-sell-trade/642259-clearance-joe-johnson-real-game-worn-jersey-cheap.html
hairyangryfella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:27 AM   #59 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyangryfella View Post
This doesn't actually help your argument, rather it suggests what's wrong with the stance... Let the people buying the card decide to bust it, or move on to something that IS graded 9 or higher. It is being deceptive to bust it and sell it as 'raw' when it's not just raw, it is only nrmnt+... raw cards can achieve 9.5s, {former} 8.5s can't (or shouldn't, who knows with BGS....)
I know what you mean, however, as a seller you need to reach the most audience.

Here's an analogy:

If you were going to sell a brand new car, but it had a "Dominoes" delivery light on the top of the car (not bolted on). And you bought it this way.

You want to re-sell it, however, nobody really wants it with the Dominoes light on it. So you simply remove it.

The car is EXACTLY the same, nothing was damaged or changed in ANY WAY.

In fact, when the car was PRODUCED, it DID NOT have the Dominoes light on it to begin with. So you're seling the car essentially as it was made and exists in it's raw form.



Same exact scenario here ... except with less pizza
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:30 AM   #60 (permalink)
Member
 
hairyangryfella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 6,502
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
I know what you mean, however, as a seller you need to reach the most audience.

Here's an analogy:

If you were going to sell a brand new car, but it had a "Dominoes" delivery light on the top of the car (not bolted on). And you bought it this way.

You want to re-sell it, however, nobody really wants it with the Dominoes light on it. So you simply remove it.

The car is EXACTLY the same, nothing was damaged or changed in ANY WAY.

In fact, when the car was PRODUCED, it DID NOT have the Dominoes light on it to begin with. So you're seling the car essentially as it was made and exists in it's raw form.



Same exact scenario here ... except with less pizza
Lol what is with people on this forum comparing cards to cars...

I also see what you're saying, however a card that was previously graded 'less than mint' should really be stated as such, or at the very least listed as being nearmint or better. Allowing people to think that it could be, or implying that it is mint or better is misleading and unfair to them.
__________________
Buy a cheap game jersey! http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/basketball-singles-buy-sell-trade/642259-clearance-joe-johnson-real-game-worn-jersey-cheap.html
hairyangryfella is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:30 AM   #61 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,450
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hairyangryfella View Post
This doesn't actually help your argument, rather it suggests what's wrong with the stance... Let the people buying the card decide to bust it, or move on to something that IS graded 9 or higher. It is being deceptive to bust it and sell it as 'raw' when it's not just raw, it is only nrmnt+... raw cards can achieve 9.5s, {former} 8.5s can't (or shouldn't, who knows with BGS....)
I agree with this.

You can claim that cards grades change, but that's not a very good argument.

What hairy said is right though, you get a card graded an 8.5, bust the case and sell raw, odds are the buyer might be hoping he can get it graded an 9 or 9.5 which you know for a fact wasn't the case.

Not to mention 8.5 depending on the product lowers the price of the card to a little cheaper than raw in many cases. So by busting the case I'd say you're only interested in your bottom line being higher
1eyed_jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:32 AM   #62 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,829
Default

If you crack out a card that is an 8.5 and you list it as NM-MT, I see nothing wrong with it. If you crack out a card that is deemed altered by beckett and do not disclose that information, then its wrong.

If beckett is as inconsistent as people are arguing, then there is really no point to disclosing the past grade since an 8.5 could easily come back an 8 or a 9 the next time it is sent in. And if beckett is inconsistent, then they aren't credible, which means a seller would be deceiving a buyer by disclosing information about an item that came from a non-credible source.
jr24ai3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:34 AM   #63 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,450
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
I know what you mean, however, as a seller you need to reach the most audience.

Here's an analogy:

If you were going to sell a brand new car, but it had a "Dominoes" delivery light on the top of the car (not bolted on). And you bought it this way.

You want to re-sell it, however, nobody really wants it with the Dominoes light on it. So you simply remove it.

The car is EXACTLY the same, nothing was damaged or changed in ANY WAY.

In fact, when the car was PRODUCED, it DID NOT have the Dominoes light on it to begin with. So you're seling the car essentially as it was made and exists in it's raw form.



Same exact scenario here ... except with less pizza
Oooh, comparisons are fun!

How about this one.

It's similar to buying a house from somebody for a discounted price because you know someone was murdered in it. But after you buy the house, you sell it at regular price and do not disclose a murder took place.

You're not lying by not disclosing it (only by omission), but you're not being completely honest either
1eyed_jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:35 AM   #64 (permalink)
Member
 
xavieronly1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,259
Default

I personally find it very funny how penny1fan hates paul06901 so much and still creates a thread by helping him to promote his card. If not this thread, I don't even check this auction (at least for tonight). It is like the point of creating this thread is to destroy paul, but for now, it seems like it helps paul to get more people attention (I have items in ebay to sell).
__________________
Always looking for Anfernee "Penny" Hardaway!! Thanks!

http://s953.photobucket.com/albums/ae15/xavieronly1/Basketball/Penny%20Hardaway%20PC/
xavieronly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:40 AM   #65 (permalink)
Member
 
SportsItUpCards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Collector since 1992
Posts: 12,202
Default

__________________
I'M THE EASTER BUNNY...... Believe me???

It's all about the 76ers in 2015...
SportsItUpCards is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:43 AM   #66 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack View Post
Oooh, comparisons are fun!

How about this one.

It's similar to buying a house from somebody for a discounted price because you know someone was murdered in it. But after you buy the house, you sell it at regular price and do not disclose a murder took place.

You're not lying by not disclosing it (only by omission), but you're not being completely honest either
That's not a relevant comparison because the murder MAY or MAY NOT affect the house itself. A murder could mean it's in a bad neighborhood, OR it could be a nice neighborhood and it was just a fluke.


That's like saying that you have a card and you accidentally spilled water on it, but you wiped it off quickly so it looks OK now ... but that water MIGHT eventually have affected the card in a bad way, or maybe it won't ... then your comparison applies.

But simply putting a protective, subjectively graded case around a card and saying that needs to be disclosed once removed is not justifiable.


If the grade was poor, you'd think the seller would state any damage.


But the main point is, a card graded BGS 8.5 might be undergraded or overgraded ... might regrade higher or lower .... that does not mean that needs to be disclosed, as it's completely subjective and as long as the item being sold is clearly represented AS-IS, the buyer would not receive anything other than what they are bidding/paying for.
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:48 AM   #67 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xavieronly1 View Post
I personally find it very funny how penny1fan hates paul06901 so much and still creates a thread by helping him to promote his card. If not this thread, I don't even check this auction (at least for tonight). It is like the point of creating this thread is to destroy paul, but for now, it seems like it helps paul to get more people attention (I have items in ebay to sell).
First off I don't hate anyone.I still love this hobby and find it very fun just as I did when I was 8 years old with my binder of cards.This was a simple poll to see how people feel about this situation not a call out thread.Paul called himself out.I could care less bout his cards or their exposure,He chimed in and admitted what he does and why he does it which is

"People would much rather have a raw card over a graded 8.5 card"

Obviously $$$ is his motive.Which is why I voted NO
penny1fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:48 AM   #68 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xavieronly1 View Post
I personally find it very funny how penny1fan hates paul06901 so much and still creates a thread by helping him to promote his card. If not this thread, I don't even check this auction (at least for tonight). It is like the point of creating this thread is to destroy paul, but for now, it seems like it helps paul to get more people attention (I have items in ebay to sell).
It's called grasping at straws. The guy scammed me, then got upset when I left him a neg and his rep is tarnished. So he's stalking me to try and get dirt on me, as well as twisting things to try and make a case for himself against me.


Bottom line is, I don't need to prove anything to him. If he feels the need to spend his free time digging up dirt on me for his own personal pleasure, so be it! If he wants to go back through my recent posts from a week just to try to find one I edited (lol) to call me out, so be it!




It's just karma, that's all. He's trying to bring me down to his level, trying to say I'm dishonest, like he was PROVEN to be here in front of everyone.

It's sad, and I'm honestly a bit worried for the guy's mental status. To be so concerned with me and what I'm doing, I worry he may have problems in his own life he should be focusing on more-so.

But whatever! I guess the poll gave him his answer. And if he wants to promote my auctions, that's fine too. It's easy to hide behind a computer and act stubborn and immature, so I'll sit back while he continues to feel the need to do so ... but I'm surely not giving any more of my time responding to posts on his nonsense!
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:49 AM   #69 (permalink)
Temporarily Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,248
Default

I crack most of my 8.5 and 9's out myself....I really dont like them graded.
__________________
[B]"I got a goal, and it's a huge goal, and that's to bring an NBA championship here to Cleveland," James said. "And I won't stop until I get it." [/B]

MY LAKERS PATCH COLLECTION... http://photobucket.com/Lakerspatchcollection
forgiven1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 12:52 AM   #70 (permalink)
Member
 
paul06901's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,669
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by penny1fan View Post
First off I don't hate anyone.I still love this hobby and find it very fun just as I did when I was 8 years old with my binder of cards.This was a simple poll to see how people feel about this situation not a call out thread.Paul called himself out.I could care less bout his cards or their exposure,He chimed in and admitted what he does and why he does it which is

"People would much rather have a raw card over a graded 8.5 card"

Obviously $$$ is his motive.Which is why I voted NO
Right, well ... you're not fooling anyone bud ... you clearly saw my mailday recently and then did your little 'detective work' ... maybe with the help of others, I don't know, I don't care .... doesn't matter! Then you created the thread to subtly call me out.

Anyone can get that by reading your posts throughout the thread. You kept adding posts adding bits and pieces of a story just like "MINE"!

Funny how you only quoted responses that backed up your point against me, you never argued your point ... because you don't actually care about the point of the thread.

The only point of the thread for you was to call me out.

You really need to go outside and get some fresh air, take a few chill pills and have a beer. Go play with your binders and try to be a bit more positive in your life
paul06901 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:00 AM   #71 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
Right, well ... you're not fooling anyone bud ... you clearly saw my mailday recently and then did your little 'detective work' ... maybe with the help of others, I don't know, I don't care .... doesn't matter! Then you created the thread to subtly call me out.

Anyone can get that by reading your posts throughout the thread. You kept adding posts adding bits and pieces of a story just like "MINE"!

Funny how you only quoted responses that backed up your point against me, you never argued your point ... because you don't actually care about the point of the thread.

The only point of the thread for you was to call me out.

You really need to go outside and get some fresh air, take a few chill pills and have a beer. Go play with your binders and try to be a bit more positive in your life
You were banned for this very same act in the past on another forum so why do you continue to do this crap?Why go through the troubles to bust the cards just to resell them immediatly on Ebay if there is no gain?You admitted that you do this for exposure and preference ultimately meaning more $$$ in your pocket.How is this not a scumbag move?

I created the poll simply because I am curious to what others think,Am I not allowed to do so?You showed up in here all defensive and went straight into attack mode which is usually a sign of guilt.Keep throwing your 1 year old clump of dirt back into my face as if anyone reasonable cares.You called yourself out in here making this thread all about you,stop focusing on me and accept what you are doing is not cool with some others within the hobby.

Last edited by penny1fan; 04-24-2013 at 05:01 AM.
penny1fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:05 AM   #72 (permalink)
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 1,706
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fullmetal View Post
Ethical business practice: disclose any information you know.
why does it have to be any more complicated than this?
thenwhatjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:05 AM   #73 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 7,450
Default

The thing is that technically a grade of 7 is near mint right?

So people in theory could buy up BGS 7 cards for cheap, bust them and list them as being in near mint to mint condition and sell them for more raw since they sell higher that way.

It seems a pretty easy to way to make a small profit
1eyed_jack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 01:15 AM   #74 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack View Post
The thing is that technically a grade of 7 is near mint right?

So people in theory could buy up BGS 7 cards for cheap, bust them and list them as being in near mint to mint condition and sell them for more raw since they sell higher that way.

It seems a pretty easy to way to make a small profit
That fact is nobody would take the time to bust the cards out of the slabs then list them for sale just for the shear enjoyment.This guy is well known for this and has a long past of this.Was banned for it on Hobby Kings yet still does it just for fun?Read his posts he clearly admits it's all about "Most people want to buy raw cards if the grade is not 9 or higher" Than why not just sell the graded card and let the buyer decide if he/she wants to bust the slab?It's a scumbag move to make himself more $$$
penny1fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-24-2013, 02:00 AM   #75 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul06901 View Post
I know what you mean, however, as a seller you need to reach the most audience.

Here's an analogy:

If you were going to sell a brand new car, but it had a "Dominoes" delivery light on the top of the car (not bolted on). And you bought it this way.

You want to re-sell it, however, nobody really wants it with the Dominoes light on it. So you simply remove it.

The car is EXACTLY the same, nothing was damaged or changed in ANY WAY.

In fact, when the car was PRODUCED, it DID NOT have the Dominoes light on it to begin with. So you're seling the car essentially as it was made and exists in it's raw form.



Same exact scenario here ... except with less pizza
Yeah because we all love spending our hard earned money on items without knowing every little detail that should be shared to us as the buyer.Only fools do this and get taken everyday and that being said I think you may be on to something with the car scenario.I should invest all of my money into a corporation called "Cardfacts" A website for collectors to get the back story on cards that may be tampered with to avoid people like you trying to pull an extra $1 out of us.

I am sick of all the card altering that continues to take place..

Fake patches
Patch altering
Fake cards
Grading manipulation
Fake auto's
Traced auto's
Trimmed cards
Fake serial numbers
These "proof" cards
etc.

You manipulated the card for financial gain just as someone would manipulate a patch or and auto etc.Keep using excuses or trying to make this about me.You made this thread about you now deal with it.
penny1fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:41 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Copyright 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.