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Old 01-08-2010, 06:19 PM   #26 (permalink)
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For what it's worth, I'm a 3rd year law student in the top 15% of my class....

and the evidence sure points in Warrior's favor and against Gman

I would contact PayPal and/or eBay and explain the whole situation with your screen shots. It's clear the cards are identical - it's just a matter of whether eBay and/or PayPal feel like doing anything about it.

No jury would believe GMan, I'll tell you that much.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bibbseat55 View Post
For what it's worth, I'm a 3rd year law student in the top 15% of my class....

and the evidence sure points in Warrior's favor and against Gman

I would contact PayPal and/or eBay and explain the whole situation with your screen shots. It's clear the cards are identical - it's just a matter of whether eBay and/or PayPal feel like doing anything about it.

No jury would believe GMan, I'll tell you that much.
I'm starting to agree. Sorry Gman, but he has some good evidence.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:21 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BayAreaWarrior View Post
People, look at the evidence, he will keep on saying he didn't receive anything, but all the proof is there. I just don't know why he keeps lying.
because! there is no dc#! if he scammed you or not there is no proof of delivery ,dot or no dot, you might as well have asked for cash
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:22 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bibbseat55 View Post
For what it's worth, I'm a 3rd year law student in the top 15% of my class....

and the evidence sure points in Warrior's favor and against Gman

I would contact PayPal and/or eBay and explain the whole situation with your screen shots. It's clear the cards are identical - it's just a matter of whether eBay and/or PayPal feel like doing anything about it.

No jury would believe GMan, I'll tell you that much.
Ok Mr soon to be lawyer. What do we get to do regarding the attempted mail fraud by sending a David Lee Pannini in place of the Jennings with a DC#,thinking that would satisfy all parties. Sounds like a scam to me,and I'm faaar from a lawyer or in training to be one
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:22 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:22 PM   #31 (permalink)
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For the record, Warrior, it would be helpful to post a screenshot from the actual eBay auction that depicts the card with the white dot. Although you have two matching photos, the 2nd is from a Windows viewer which would probably fail court authentication (not saying you are going to court, but you know). If you can post a photo from the actual eBay auction that shows the white dot and autograph alignment, I'd think your case is pretty solid.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:25 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Ok Mr soon to be lawyer. What do we get to do regarding the attempted mail fraud by sending a David Lee Pannini in place of the Jennings with a DC#,thinking that would satisfy all parties. Sounds like a scam to me,and I'm faaar from a lawyer or in training to be one
I know much more about law and evidence than I do about eBay. How would sending another card, after the fact, with a DC # satisfy all parties? Did he sent it the same day he claims to have mailed the Jennings card? They could track that, and presumably you'd have a message from Warrior stating which day he claims to have mailed the card.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:25 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I remember a thread by g-man asking about a potential scamming. However, regardless of scamming (which I dont condone at all). If your consistently selling on ebay and forums, you have to know that the .19 cents from paypal shipping for delivery confirmation is a must. You have absolutly no proof you shipped this card, much less if its been recieved. This is a buyer wins everytime.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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btw, welcome to the forum, bayareawarrior.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:27 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bibbseat55 View Post
I know much more about law and evidence than I do about eBay. How would sending another card, after the fact, with a DC # satisfy all parties? Did he sent it the same day he claims to have mailed the Jennings card? They could track that, and presumably you'd have a message from Warrior stating which day he claims to have mailed the card.
The DC# would show paypal that something was actually sent,regardless of what,if anything would be in the envelope. He claimed to have shipped the Jennings to me on 12/3

Sent the Lee with the DC# on 12/11
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:28 PM   #36 (permalink)
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If anyone feels like going to small claims court, I'd love to be a part of it! I have so many arguments for both sides that I must keep quiet just in case!

Is it sad that this type of stuff makes me excited? Haha.

OT, I see that Upper Deck could use another good lawyer these days too... maybe a new career path for me?!
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Well then, Gman, those two dates would never fool PayPal or eBay. They would easily track that the card mailed a week after the first was claimed to be mailed was not actually Jennings, and thus, would not be adequate as a plot to fool PayPal...no idiot is that stupid.

I presume, instead, Warrior send the David Lee base with DC to indeed prove that his post office properly, effectively, and efficiently mails to your address.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gman71 View Post
Ok Mr soon to be lawyer. What do we get to do regarding the attempted mail fraud by sending a David Lee Pannini in place of the Jennings with a DC#,thinking that would satisfy all parties. Sounds like a scam to me,and I'm faaar from a lawyer or in training to be one
Look I made the mistake of trusting this seller and sending without DC, as I have never been scammed before. However, the fact is he received the card and even resold it.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:30 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item 09/10 MCDONALD'S ALL AMERICAN BRANDON JENNINGS TOPPS!!! Received: Dec-11-09
From: loeza-burgos Expires: Dec-11-10
To: meta-lika
ItemId: 300367697714





Seller has responded to your question about this item



Dear meta-lika,

Here is the DC:
03080730000168369974


- loeza-burgos


Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item 09/10 MCDONALD'S ALL AMERICAN BRANDON JENNINGS TOPPS!!! Received: Dec-03-09
From: loeza-burgos Expires: Dec-03-10
To: meta-lika
ItemId: 300367697714
Dear meta-lika,

Card was shipped, sorry for the delay.


- loeza-burgos
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:31 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bibbseat55 View Post
If anyone feels like going to small claims court, I'd love to be a part of it! I have so many arguments for both sides that I must keep quiet just in case!

Is it sad that this type of stuff makes me excited? Haha.

OT, I see that Upper Deck could use another good lawyer these days too... maybe a new career path for me?!
Nah,it's supposed to get you excited. That's the whole point in going to school forever and a day,no?
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:35 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Nah,it's supposed to get you excited. That's the whole point in going to school forever and a day,no?
Tell me about it... I'm actually getting a joint JD/MBA degree so it's even longer!

There is clearly evidence for both sides, that's what makes this so exciting.

Clearly, one of you is lying. Regardless of who it is, I don't see how someone can be so unethical and irresponsible as to stand by such a lie in a fun hobby on a messageboard! Whichever one of you is lying, grow up.

Hope it works out the right way, in the end.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:37 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Bibbseat55 View Post
Tell me about it... I'm actually getting a joint JD/MBA degree so it's even longer!

There is clearly evidence for both sides, that's what makes this so exciting.

Clearly, one of you is lying. Regardless of who it is, I don't see how someone can be so unethical and irresponsible as to stand by such a lie in a fun hobby on a messageboard! Whichever one of you is lying, grow up.

Hope it works out the right way, in the end.
What evidence does he have? I have established I sent the Lee card so I wouldn't be down about $300. However, it turns out he lied and received the card as shown by my screenshots and facts.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:38 PM   #43 (permalink)
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You said you mailed the card, you have yet to provide any evidence of said mailing. We've already established you didnt use DC nor did you insure.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:40 PM   #44 (permalink)
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Gman, I completely understand if you don't want or feel the need to answer this question... and I'm NOT accusing you of anything or taking EITHER side... but do you remember how you acquired the Jennings auto that you had? Was it pack pulled? Bought locally? Bought online? Just curious.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:41 PM   #45 (permalink)
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What I get a kick out of as well is that you claim the Jennings I listed to sell here on 1/6 is yours, yet on 12/10 you claimed I was trying to sell the same Jennings? How is that possible?
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:45 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Gman, I completely understand if you don't want or feel the need to answer this question... and I'm NOT accusing you of anything or taking EITHER side... but do you remember how you acquired the Jennings auto that you had? Was it pack pulled? Bought locally? Bought online? Just curious.
I've had a few of them. The one for sale now was acquired locally here in Vegas at a shop.
The last one he accused me of selling that was his, came from here:
09/10 Topps McDonald All American Auto Brandon Jennings - eBay (item 170408951108 end time Nov-18-09 20:07:37 PST)
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:45 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Warrior said you tried to sell it on 1/6, which is when you listed it. That adds up just fine.

I'd rather not say what evidence GMan has just in case. It's more of what evidence you DON'T have, and I don't mean just a DC #. You can PM me if you want.

I still think you have the better case, Warrior, I'm just saying.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:46 PM   #48 (permalink)
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What evidence does he have? I have established I sent the Lee card so I wouldn't be down about $300. However, it turns out he lied and received the card as shown by my screenshots and facts.
Here is the thing about your screen shots, anyone could make those, I could save a scan of the card that Gman had for sale and take a screen shot of his listing next to the picture of mine in a windows viewer thus creating the illusion of identical cards even though I have never actually posessed the card myself, I believe the only way you actually have an argument here is if you had a screenshot of the ebay listing showing this same card, even at that point this may be a stretch, so your "proof" and "facts" are not very solid, the only thing very very clear hear is the fact that you sent out a $170 card with no DC and no insurance which is obviously not very smart, you are probablt wishing you had sprung and spent the couple of extra bucks now. As far as getting banned from Ebay, that in no way shape or form could be the fault of Gman for a couple of reasons, you shouldnt be spending money from transactions that are not complete and for 2 you said that is left your paypal balance at a negative $170 which means you had already spent the money so you shouldnt have recieved NPB for items since you had already spent the money anyway or you wouldnt have had the money even if the transaction had been flawless so your story does not add up here either, your charecter is becoming more and more questionable.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:51 PM   #49 (permalink)
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Here is the thing about your screen shots, anyone could make those, I could save a scan of the card that Gman had for sale and take a screen shot of his listing next to the picture of mine in a windows viewer thus creating the illusion of identical cards even though I have never actually posessed the card myself, I believe the only way you actually have an argument here is if you had a screenshot of the ebay listing showing this same card, even at that point this may be a stretch, so your "proof" and "facts" are not very solid, the only thing very very clear hear is the fact that you sent out a $170 card with no DC and no insurance which is obviously not very smart, you are probablt wishing you had sprung and spent the couple of extra bucks now. As far as getting banned from Ebay, that in no way shape or form could be the fault of Gman for a couple of reasons, you shouldnt be spending money from transactions that are not complete and for 2 you said that is left your paypal balance at a negative $170 which means you had already spent the money so you shouldnt have recieved NPB for items since you had already spent the money anyway or you wouldnt have had the money even if the transaction had been flawless so your story does not add up here either, your charecter is becoming more and more questionable.
Waxman, I made the exact same point a while ago about the eBay listing and Windows viewer. I asked Warrior to post a screenshot from the exact eBay listing a while ago and he has not done that yet. See page 4 of the thread.
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Old 01-08-2010, 07:00 PM   #50 (permalink)
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I've had a few of them. The one for sale now was acquired locally here in Vegas at a shop.
The last one he accused me of selling that was his, came from here:
09/10 Topps McDonald All American Auto Brandon Jennings - eBay (item 170408951108 end time Nov-18-09 20:07:37 PST)
OK, thats kind of what I was thinking. So I know this is not going to change either of your minds... but what if NEITHER of you is lying or scamming the other?

If BayAreaWarrior did send you the card, and sent it with no DC, and then you file a claim, he's going to assume you're scamming him and while it might have been a stupid action maybe figured sending that David Lee card was the only way to try to protect himself and not lose both the card and the money.

From your perspective, you got no card, so you filed the claim and got your money back. But his little David Lee stunt convinced you that he was scamming you.

It seems unreasonable to think someone with Gman's reputation would try to pull this and then straight up lie about it to cover his butt when BayAreaWarrior brought this up.

It also seems unreasonable to think that BayAreaWarrior would be putting this much effort into accusing you, if his scam simply failed. If he wasn't out the card to begin with, then he wouldn't really be out anything in this ordeal and if his alleged scam hadn't of worked, he'd probably just go home with his tail between his legs and chalk it up to a failed attempt. But instead he's going after you and your reputation, and even did something as stupid as sending the David Lee card and then admitting to doing that, all in an attempt to not lose the money.

So what if someone in GMan's town, whether it be a USPS employee or otherwise, stole the package before it was delivered and made off with the card. Its likely that person would be doing so to try to resell the card and make money from it, and since that person would have known he stole it, they would probably want to sell it locally at a shop or show rather than take the chance of being caught online selling it.

So if a shop in Gman's area bought the stolen card, who's to say Gman couldn't have bought the very card that was sent to him and was stolen before it got to him?? It would explain the identical pictures. It would explain why both sides are adamant that the other is a scammer. It would mean both parties are telling the truth and the real scammer got away with their crime scott free.

I imagine the simplest answer is usually the correct one though, and that one of the parties is lying, but it does seem odd that both would be so public with their accusations and firmly accusing the other of lying. So it IS at least possible that neither of you are scamming the other and that a 3rd person stole the card. Just something to think about.
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